[Blacktemplar]

Originally Posted by RobUK

As long as everyone on and around rounds is exercising courtesy and common sense then nothing should change. Problem is re-wording a few rules in the Highway Code won't fix the fact that many road users either don't demonstrate basic awareness or think getting from A to B is some sort of competition. At best a new rule may be cited in some edge case in the future otherwise the madness will just continue.

Sorry, haven't had my anti-cynical pills today

I've cycled a fair bit in Europe over the years as have others on here - I don't know what experiences anyone else has had, but I can't think of anywhere else I've either toured or raced where there is so much antagonism and bad manners between cyclists and other road users as you see in the UK.

Almost everywhere else I've been, motorists generally behave well (and in lots of places the law very specifically mandates that they need to), or the infrastructure supports segregation of cyclists from motorised traffic. The only place I've been in recent years where I've experienced aggro from drivers was in Mallorca, and no prizes for guessing, it was Brits in hire cars that were the worst offenders.

I have no awareness of how cycling matters are viewed by/reported on my media in other countries, and my experience is limited to European countries but I can't help think that in some measure the language and behaviour of the tabloids in this country doesn't help.

[sahajesh]

Tried the Dutch Reach today, didn't give me any extra visibility.

If you use the driver's side mirror, you'd see cyclists anyway so what's the point of this?

[JR1664]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

Tried the Dutch Reach today, didn't give me any extra visibility.

If you use the driver's side mirror, you'd see cyclists anyway so what's the point of this?

There's a small chance they could be in the blind spot plus you're not just swinging the door open with your leading arm. I guess by simply using the method its making you think about cyclists (or even other cars) and that may be the method behind it.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

Tried the Dutch Reach today

Is there something sexually-suggestive about "the Dutch reach" or is it just me ?

[sahajesh]

Originally Posted by JR1664

There's a small chance they could be in the blind spot plus you're not just swinging the door open with your leading arm. I guess by simply using the method its making you think about cyclists (or even other cars) and that may be the method behind it.

May be, but doing it that way didn't force me to look over my shoulder so there was no advantage to just opening the door with the right hand as normal.

[Blacktemplar]

Originally Posted by JR1664

There's a small chance they could be in the blind spot plus you're not just swinging the door open with your leading arm. I guess by simply using the method its making you think about cyclists (or even other cars) and that may be the method behind it.

I've been doored twice - first time was passing parked traffic and the guy just flung his door open without looking. I ended up under a lorry that was waiting to turn right just as it started moving. Fortunately I managed to roll clear, and a woman on the pavement made so much noise the lorry driver stopped to see what the ruckus was. The guy who doored me tried to make out it was my fault for riding up the inside of traffic, and was getting a bit shirty when the lorry driver grabbed him by the neck and had him up against his car - I think when he realised he'd nearly run me over he got a bit 'upset'.....

Second time was also going up the inside of stationary traffic turning right - I was going straight on in the middle of a pretty narrow lane when some daft bint flung open the passenger door. Fortunately I saw her at the last moment and managed to mostly avoid her - clipped her with my handlebars and yelled very loudly - I think she may have shat herself, followed by a torrent of abuse from her and the woman driving the car.

I'm a reasonably cautious rider - I don't squeeze up the inside of traffic the way I see a lot of riders doing, particularly large commercial vehicles who often can't see you. I'm always very wary of parked cars and generally give them a wide berth, but it's not always possible without riding further out and risking abuse from following drivers, or a close pass.

[JR1664]

Originally Posted by Blacktemplar

I've cycled a fair bit in Europe over the years as have others on here - I don't know what experiences anyone else has had, but I can't think of anywhere else I've either toured or raced where there is so much antagonism and bad manners between cyclists and other road users as you see in the UK.

Almost everywhere else I've been, motorists generally behave well (and in lots of places the law very specifically mandates that they need to), or the infrastructure supports segregation of cyclists from motorised traffic. The only place I've been in recent years where I've experienced aggro from drivers was in Mallorca, and no prizes for guessing, it was Brits in hire cars that were the worst offenders.

I have no awareness of how cycling matters are viewed by/reported on my media in other countries, and my experience is limited to European countries but I can't help think that in some measure the language and behaviour of the tabloids in this country doesn't help.

In my experience the French give you loads of room but rarely slow down and on sunday afternoons I swear half of them are pissed ..that said its a great place to cycle.

The Netherlands is an odd thing. They are so clued up that when you do happen to share a road on the rare occasion, motorists seem almost over confident. A bit like those TDF vehicles who work there way through the peloton inches from cyclists, both aware of each others presence and confident they both know what they're doing. However I rarely touched a road.

German motorists I find tend to be the best. A mixture of caution but loads of discipline. They also expect you as a cyclist to have that same discipline. Their infrastructure is nothing like the Netherlands but better than France.

However like you say there's little or no antagonism. The only grief I've had is failure to understand what probably counts as their highway code so have made a few mistakes over the years and have have been put right, firmly but fairly but no one has ever threatened to fill me in -yet.

What I would say is that the majority of cyclists over there just seem better educated and more clued up, likewise the general motoring population and pedestrians are more ' aware ' of cyclists. So you don't get dog walkers with extendable leads on shared paths, they will without fail call their dog to stop / heel if you sound a bell. It all just works so much better in my opinion.

Reading other forums I feel this anti cycling issue is now so ingrained it will never go away. I really hope this doesn't stop people from cycling.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by SimonBMW1

Cant wait for all the Instagram videos on road rage. ATM their is one bell end cyclist in London who is always making videos of him confronting drivers. HE has a accent.

The cyclist one is weird. the w@nk3rs have their own lane in most cities, they don't need to be in the middle. If there are no cameras around just overtake them.
All rules now for motorist exist to kill the car really. Boris and his green agenda would have us all on bikes/public transport or EV.

As a pedestrian on the road, its to risky to just cross even if you have right of way.

You really are like a daily mail cuttings collection.

[Scoobyd]

Number 4 here can't be real… can it?!!

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Scoobyd

Number 4 here can't be real… can it?!!

I'm sure it can. They're bloody awful things in a lot of places and pretty much the last place you'd want to cycle. (Some, not all).

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Watsey

Is there something sexually-suggestive about "the Dutch reach" or is it just me ?

Not just you I assumed for a second that he'd been off to the 'dam experimenting, then remembered the thread title.

[sahajesh]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

I'm sure it can. They're bloody awful things in a lot of places and pretty much the last place you'd want to cycle. (Some, not all).

Then councils should get rid of them, waste of bloody money and narrower roads as a result.

Why bother having them if they're "optional"?

[YellowCone]

Originally Posted by Scoobyd

Number 4 here can't be real… can it?!!

Also, if you have to leave 5 feet and they are riding two abreast does that mean it’s now effectively illegal to overtake them, since on most roads it would be impossible to comply with that instruction?

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

Then councils should get rid of them, waste of bloody money and narrower roads as a result.

Why bother having them if they're "optional"?

Agreed.

They spent months narrowing a road around here, putting in a cycle lane on a s-bend followed by a q
10%ish incline.

The road is now awkward for two buses/LGVs to pass with parked cars.

The cycle track is adjoining woodland. Therefore its a slippery leafy mess for a large portion of the year. Cyclists use it, but anyone with a decent turn of speed will stick to the road as it's safer and more predictable. 20mph speed limit so no big issue to be behind a bike.

[JR1664]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

Then councils should get rid of them, waste of bloody money and narrower roads as a result.

Why bother having them if they're "optional"?

This is one of my local so called cycle lanes and the reason cycling on it is "optional".

[Pentland]

Originally Posted by Scoobyd

Number 4 here can't be real… can it?!!

I’d have said 5 is the imposter.
If you are stupid enough to cycle past the near side of a car at a junction, you deserve all you might get.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by Scoobyd

Number 4 here can't be real… can it?!!

I can only presume you have never actually been on pedal bike on UK road?

I cycle on this road every day for my commute, the 'cycle lane' is essentially a line painted on the pavement. So why don't I use it?



You might notice this bit of road has a slope, essentially I don't fancy going down this cycle lane at 20mph+ and sharing it with pedestrians - there is actually a school at the top of hill so during rush hour kids are walking on it.



Pretty much every cycle lane in Leicester has some kind of major design flaw, its almost as though the people who design/planned them have never ever been on a pedal bike!!

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by JR1664

Reading other forums I feel this anti cycling issue is now so ingrained it will never go away. I really hope this doesn't stop people from cycling.

Sadly I think you are right about the anti cycling feeling in the UK. I simply don't get it, I walked my daughter to school today, than cycled into work, finally went to ASDA in the car.

We are all road users, and actually the more options people are given for transportation the better. Cycling for short trips is great for mental, physical health, not to mention the environment. Just because some cycles doesn't mean they don't drive, equally every single car driver is also a pedestrian.

I've managed to do more commuter miles on the bike than car so far this year, which is a good start given the cold. Am aiming to cover more miles on the pedal bike this year than my wife does in her car .

[Blacktemplar]

Originally Posted by JR1664

This is one of my local so called cycle lanes and the reason cycling on it is "optional".

That looks really nicely surfaced compared to some of the efforts around Glasgow

Part of the problem is that when cycle lanes are set up, they're rarely maintained properly, and often end up breaking up during successive winters, or filled with debris & muck as they're not easily cleaned.

Another issue is that Councils sometimes want to tick a 'green/cycling agenda' box, and put in cycle lanes that are wildly inappropriate for either the volume of use or the location. They often have a 'consultation' (usually on FB) which only attracts the nutters on both sides of the divide, and then go ahead and do whatever they originally planned anyway, irrespective of local opinion.

There was a load of this went on round my way during lockdown, when roads were quiet and more people took up cycling.

Case in point; East Renfrewshire council consulted on these very wide temporary lanes along the A77 which is one of the major arterial routes into Glasgow from the south. The cycle lanes are wide enough to let three people ride abreast. Everyone - local cyclists included - said they were overkill, far too wide and had too many bollards, which had the effect of narrowing the two traffic lanes to the extent that buses & big lorries have to slow to pass each other.

So what did they do? Made them permanent, with upgraded heavy duty bollards, and extended them all the way up to Mearns Cross, almost three miles of lanes on both sides of the carriageway. People can't park outside their house, delivery and bin lorries block the roads at peak times, and all it's achieved is making more motorists angry at cyclists - as if it's their fault the Council are a bunch of twats....

There's even a section where the people have no drive so were continually parking inside the bollards. What was the Council's response? Make a parking bay on the OUTSIDE of the bollards which creates a chicane for other road users. It beggars belief.

We don't really 'get' cycling in this country yet, in terms of infrastructure at least. A lot of our roads aren't easily adapted without major cost, and even when we build new ones, cycling provision often feels like an afterthought. Unlike countries like Holland & Denmark where cycling & motoring work (mostly) in harmony, in the UK it just feels like it's and either/or most of the time, with one group or the other aggravated.

/rant

[Pentland]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

I can only presume you have never actually been on pedal bike on UK road?

I cycle on this road every day for my commute, the 'cycle lane' is essentially a line painted on the pavement. So why don't I use it?


You might notice this bit of road has a slope, essentially I don't fancy going down this cycle lane at 20mph+ and sharing it with pedestrians - there is actually a school at the top of hill so during rush hour kids are walking on it.

This pretty much illustrates my point earlier in the thread.

Pedestrians generally don’t read the Highway Code. They are almost certainly never going to be penalised by breaking it.

AFAIK there is not a speed limit for cyclists in that cycle lane. However, you can be charged, no matter how unlikely, for IIRC, furious cycling.

Now if both the above Highway users follow the postage signage, pedestrians would be on one side of the line, cyclists on the other and the cyclists would be travelling at speed appropriate to the conditions.
But we all know that isn’t how things actually work.

[JR1664]

Originally Posted by Pentland

I’d have said 5 is the imposter.
If you are stupid enough to cycle past the near side of a car at a junction, you deserve all you might get.

Plenty of these graphics popping up in the media are incorrect, as is this one. Even point 1 is misleading.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Not just you I assumed for a second that he'd been off to the 'dam experimenting, then remembered the thread title.

Adopts crap Dutch accent...

"Firsht ve hav de drugsh, den ve hav de shex, ya ?"

I'll get my coat.