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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N20, N26, B46, B48 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Timing Chain Issue ... is it really that prevalent???
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      03-12-2019, 03:03 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obert View Post
Yep

My point was that a lot of people will be paying of this even with this so called extended warranty
Did you get your care back btw? Did they replace it?
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      03-12-2019, 03:13 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by RMachuca3d View Post
Did you get your care back btw? Did they replace it?
I did get it back and no they did not replace it.

They did fix an oil filter housing leak under CPO. They told me to come back in a year to give it one final check before the extended warranty runs out.

This is nothing new to them so I believe that mine is okay...........for now
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      03-12-2019, 06:00 PM   #47
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HELP!!! How do I not get screwed by BMW Service for Timing Chain Issue?

Help!!! My BMW Service Advisor just called and set my engine was blown and will be $17k to replace. He said the technician found bits of metal in the oil tank (probably from the turbo) and my engine oil level was low. Which is interesting because my car never once gave me a warning that my engine oil level was low, even when I ran the oil level diagnostic on iDrive less than a month ago.

So of course I brought up the faulty timing chain and oil pump 7yrs/70k on my N20 engine (my car only has 59k miles so is covered). The Service Advisor looked to see if I fall under that warranty with me on the phone and then confirmed that I do in fact fall under the warranty. He then told me that the technician's diagnosis did not involve the timing chain or the oil pump so that he doesn't think my engine is covered anyways but would check with the technician.

If he calls me back and says that the technician tells him that wasn't the issue and my engine isn't covered what do I do??? How do I prove that it was the timing chain or oil pump that was at fault? From every post I've read and video I've seen about this issue, all signs point to the timing chain being the issue!
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      03-12-2019, 06:16 PM   #48
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i see this post has bring brought from the dead and back and dead and back again. whats the verdict on getting this replaced from the dealer or an indy shop? curious as my f30 m sport 328i has 92k however the vin doesnt meet the recall list. would changing it result in piece of mind or are their other issues with this engine as well?
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      03-12-2019, 06:18 PM   #49
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@cbsturge

What sort of oil change intervals have you been running?

Do you have proof to support this?

Did you use Auto Start Stop regularly?

Any whining noises leading up to the failure?

You never told us what caused you to bring the car into dealer in the first place...
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      03-12-2019, 06:20 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by sqwinny View Post
i see this post has bring brought from the dead and back and dead and back again. whats the verdict on getting this replaced from the dealer or an indy shop? curious as my f30 m sport 328i has 92k however the vin doesnt meet the recall list. would changing it result in piece of mind or are their other issues with this engine as well?
Thats really only been the only major failure reported so far.

If all is well, Id leave it alone and keep your ear perked up for whining sounds.

They usually don't just pop outta no where... they tend to whine for hundreds if not thousands of miles first.


This isssue really isnt that common on well maintained vehicles.
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      03-12-2019, 06:31 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
@cbsturge

What sort of oil change intervals have you been running?

Do you have proof to support this?

Did you use Auto Start Stop regularly?

Any whining noises leading up to the failure?

You never told us what caused you to bring the car into dealer in the first place...
Oil change around every 10k miles. I don't have proof to support unfortunately as I didn't keep my receipts. Of course, I will from here on out from now on.

Yes, I did use Auto Start/Stop regularly but less so in the past few months.

I don't really recall hearing winding noises but if I did I probably wouldn't have noticed.

What caused me to bring the car into the dealer was I got these two back to back error messages:

ERROR MESSAGE 1 - Drivetrain malfunction: Drive moderately. Maximum drivetrain output not available. Consult service center.

ERROR MESSAGE 2 - Engine Oil Pressure Too Low: Stop carefully and stop engine. Risk of engine damage with continued driving. Call roadside assistance.

...and then my engine just completely died.
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      03-13-2019, 06:17 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbsturge View Post
Help!!! My BMW Service Advisor just called and set my engine was blown and will be $17k to replace. He said the technician found bits of metal in the oil tank (probably from the turbo) and my engine oil level was low. Which is interesting because my car never once gave me a warning that my engine oil level was low, even when I ran the oil level diagnostic on iDrive less than a month ago.

So of course I brought up the faulty timing chain and oil pump 7yrs/70k on my N20 engine (my car only has 59k miles so is covered). The Service Advisor looked to see if I fall under that warranty with me on the phone and then confirmed that I do in fact fall under the warranty. He then told me that the technician's diagnosis did not involve the timing chain or the oil pump so that he doesn't think my engine is covered anyways but would check with the technician.

If he calls me back and says that the technician tells him that wasn't the issue and my engine isn't covered what do I do??? How do I prove that it was the timing chain or oil pump that was at fault? From every post I've read and video I've seen about this issue, all signs point to the timing chain being the issue!
As was said before, insist that it is extremely implausible that the damage is simply from low oil as measuring oil level never indicated it being low. Furthermore, insist that you look over your engine with the tech, and get pictures of the timing chain, guides etc. Even if it isn't obvious that the chain/guide was the failure, the mileage is low. If you push hard enough (professionally, politely) they may "goodwill" a replacement. Make it clear that otherwise, a future BMW purchase is highly unlikely.
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      03-13-2019, 01:05 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbsturge View Post
ERROR MESSAGE 2 - Engine Oil Pressure Too Low:
1. So a month ago oil was at Max, and now dealer measured it as low, plus the message. Sudden oil leak? No enough oil at oil change? Oil pump failure? last does not explain low oil... There is room for investigation.

2. If metal shaving found, that is most likely end of the engine. No chain replace will help. Burned rod bearings, cylinder scoring, shafts...
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      03-13-2019, 01:13 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30ed View Post
1. So a month ago oil was at Max, and now dealer measured it as low, plus the message. Sudden oil leak? No enough oil at oil change? Oil pump failure? last does not explain low oil... There is room for investigation.

2. If metal shaving found, that is most likely end of the engine. No chain replace will help. Burned rod bearings, cylinder scoring, shafts...
1. According to my iDrive oil status, oil was at normal level and I never saw a "Check Engine Oil" light nor did my engine show any signs of needing an oil change (i.e. engine knocking, rumbling, sputtering, etc.).

2. The engine is definitely blown and needs to be fully replaced. I'm just hoping BMW says the cause is from the faulty oil pump and/or timing chain and not that my car was overdue for an oil change.
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      03-13-2019, 07:50 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
Thats really only been the only major failure reported so far.

If all is well, Id leave it alone and keep your ear perked up for whining sounds.

They usually don't just pop outta no where... they tend to whine for hundreds if not thousands of miles first.


This isssue really isnt that common on well maintained vehicles.
ah. thanks for the update . ive been using the search function and looking all over the forum here as well, but it was assumed it would happen at moments notice. Will keep 700-800 aside just in case it starts to make noises.
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      03-13-2019, 08:14 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sqwinny View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
Thats really only been the only major failure reported so far.

If all is well, Id leave it alone and keep your ear perked up for whining sounds.

They usually don't just pop outta no where... they tend to whine for hundreds if not thousands of miles first.


This isssue really isnt that common on well maintained vehicles.
ah. thanks for the update . ive been using the search function and looking all over the forum here as well, but it was assumed it would happen at moments notice. Will keep 700-800 aside just in case it starts to make noises.
Very unlikely to just explode without warning. Keep your oil fresh! Thats about all we can do.

Im at 71,5XX miles and counting fast.
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      03-13-2019, 11:02 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
Very unlikely to just explode without warning. Keep your oil fresh! Thats about all we can do.

Im at 71,5XX miles and counting fast.
That and disabling auto start/stop!
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      03-14-2019, 08:44 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjdnyy224 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
Very unlikely to just explode without warning. Keep your oil fresh! Thats about all we can do.

Im at 71,5XX miles and counting fast.
That and disabling auto start/stop!
Oh yeah, thats ASS
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      03-15-2019, 04:04 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjdnyy224 View Post
That and disabling auto start/stop!
why do you say that? the auto start stop is annoying then again it works in heavy traffic. i had to do a panic stop the other day and the damn auto stop kicked in as i drive normally around town in eco pro.
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      03-15-2019, 04:32 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by sqwinny View Post
why do you say that? the auto start stop is annoying then again it works in heavy traffic. i had to do a panic stop the other day and the damn auto stop kicked in as i drive normally around town in eco pro.
When the engine turns off, the chain obviously stops spinning, and the jerk of starting and stopping the chain with AS/S can put a hurt on the chain and guides. Also, some have speculated that oil drips off the chain when the engine stops, and when it starts back up it's not well lubricated. Basically, starting the engine is a relatively laborious task, and it's not something you want to do 50 times per day.
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      03-15-2019, 07:39 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjdnyy224 View Post
Basically, starting the engine is a relatively laborious task, and it's not something you want to do 50 times per day.
Well, when it's well/properly designed, it isn't a problem. BMW just implemented a clearly flawed design that makes the ASS feature a detriment to engine longevity.
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      03-15-2019, 11:01 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by BettyFkinCrocker View Post
Well, when it's well/properly designed, it isn't a problem. BMW just implemented a clearly flawed design that makes the ASS feature a detriment to engine longevity.
I guess it's moreso for the N20, but in all engines startup is hard on stuff. Not as much oil pressure as when it's running, and everything is ice cold.
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      03-16-2019, 07:15 AM   #63
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Clearly a flawed design.
80,000 KM 528i produced in May-2012.
OCI 10,000KM or 1 Year.
Always switch off ASS and coded it off in 2014.

The problem is the guide rail.
Look carefully and you will see crack where the side rail clip on to the top rail.

Car does not have any whining noise at all.
Took off valve cover due to VC oil leak.

It is not whether it will happen ? It is when it will happen.
Contemplating whether to repair or sell the car.
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Last edited by mikessc; 03-16-2019 at 07:20 AM.. Reason: More info.
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      03-16-2019, 08:36 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by BettyFkinCrocker View Post
BMW just implemented a clearly flawed design that makes the ASS feature a detriment to engine longevity.
If there's definitive proof I haven't seen it. Using ASS puts minimal stress on the engine, because it only works when the engine is warmed up, and the effort it takes to restart the engine is only a fraction of what it takes when it's been sitting. That includes lubrication. There's still a lot more oil on the components after the engines been switched off for two minutes than after it's been off for two hours, or two days.

The timing chain is a problem. The ASS system is present in cars with the N20/26 engine. Are the two connected? Maybe. But it's more than a bit of a stretch to connect the two. What if the timing chain problem is related to service hours, and not stop start cycles? In that case using ASS might extend the timing chain life. Either case is a possibility. In the absence of irrefutable evidence it's all speculation at this point.
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      03-16-2019, 08:54 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Billfitz View Post
If there's definitive proof I haven't seen it. Using ASS puts minimal stress on the engine, because it only works when the engine is warmed up, and the effort it takes to restart the engine is only a fraction of what it takes when it's been sitting. That includes lubrication. There's still a lot more oil on the components after the engines been switched off for two minutes than after it's been off for two hours, or two days.

The timing chain is a problem. The ASS system is present in cars with the N20/26 engine. Are the two connected? Maybe. But it's more than a bit of a stretch to connect the two. What if the timing chain problem is related to service hours, and not stop start cycles? In that case using ASS might extend the timing chain life. Either case is a possibility. In the absence of irrefutable evidence it's all speculation at this point.
Very fair point. At this point the correlation to AS/S is entirely speculation. From what I've seen, people on the forums post about having timing chain issues, they're asked if they used AS/S and frequently they answer yes. That's all we've got really, so you're right, not enough data to be definitive, but enough data to form a loose correlation. No way to be sure.
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      03-16-2019, 09:40 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfitz View Post
If there's definitive proof I haven't seen it. Using ASS puts minimal stress on the engine, because it only works when the engine is warmed up, and the effort it takes to restart the engine is only a fraction of what it takes when it's been sitting. That includes lubrication. There's still a lot more oil on the components after the engines been switched off for two minutes than after it's been off for two hours, or two days.

The timing chain is a problem. The ASS system is present in cars with the N20/26 engine. Are the two connected? Maybe. But it's more than a bit of a stretch to connect the two. What if the timing chain problem is related to service hours, and not stop start cycles? In that case using ASS might extend the timing chain life. Either case is a possibility. In the absence of irrefutable evidence it's all speculation at this point.
BMW actually admitted that ASS will cause problem to connecting rod bearing.

Read page 41 of 'BMW B46/B48 Engine Technical Documentation' on this sub-forum. ie. 5th sticky on first page.

I agree with you that not using ASS will not extend timing chain life.
The problem is the chain guide not the timing chain as depicted in my post.
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