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      06-29-2016, 03:40 PM   #23
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I like the Z line up, sounds more focused.
BMW have been back and forth between different focus with each generation.
They need to make up their mind to which niche they will focus on.
BMW have a sporty heritage, they should focus on building lighter and smarter Z's.
The Jag is kinda old school, not driven it yet, but I know the platform pretty well, not very modern. And I believe it will not be a worthy competitor against a light focused Z, with lot's of resources behind them.
Would be great to see the coupe back, and surely a proper M, X-drive should not be a priority with this model.
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      06-29-2016, 03:45 PM   #24
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Sounds very exciting.

P.S. Those sketches are by Tigran Lalayan, an Italy based automotive sketch artist. He's pretty good
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      06-29-2016, 03:55 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
I have not seen anything regarding a V8. As I mentioned previously this is a BMWi programme for Sports Cars. Which is more in line with an entirely new philosophy with the focus on performance through weight reduction. ...
The V-8 engine is going the way of the dinosaurs.
Extinction.

That's why you see a burst of mega-horsepower V-8 cars coming from Detroit (and Munich and elsewhere).
Because everyone knows it's the last gasp.
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      06-29-2016, 06:30 PM   #26
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If this is meant to be a true sports car, then why wait before giving it the proper M treatment?
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      06-29-2016, 08:14 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Just as the BMW i8 showcases its power with a three cylinder albeit assisted.
It further cements the BMWi philosophy of being lightweight whenever possible.
Bmw doesn't make any lightweight cars. Achieving that goal by providing less displacement and cylinders is akin to cutting off my leg to weigh less. Try harder, BMW...
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      06-30-2016, 02:46 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupes
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Just as the BMW i8 showcases its power with a three cylinder albeit assisted.
It further cements the BMWi philosophy of being lightweight whenever possible.
Bmw doesn't make any lightweight cars. Achieving that goal by providing less displacement and cylinders is akin to cutting off my leg to weigh less. Try harder, BMW...
BMW owns a huge CFRP Plant, they do not have to try that hard.

They are now ready.

You'll see !
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      06-30-2016, 08:18 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
I could envision a Three cylinder in the future Z3 such an engine has serious potential as well as a serious weight advantage. BMW have developed a 3 Cylinder with performance up to 300PS.
They did, but chasing such a high output out of such a small engine results in turbo lag and a narrow powerband. That is masked by the hybrid assist in the i8, but with a 3 cyl gasoline engine alone, you won't get that output.

I'm having a blast in my 2004 Z4: low weight, low height, stiff, straight 6 engine. Never crossed my mind to go for the current generation Z. If the new one is not more like the first one, I predict a giant flop - and with it, the end of BMW's willingness to play in that market.
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      06-30-2016, 10:45 AM   #30
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So basically with the amount of 'resources' we're talking about there is no way this car can fail?

I'll miss those sweet sounding v8, v10, v12 motors...I feel sad for the future generations who wont be able to experience there glorious sounds. I think that is the most saddening part of the extinction of those motors are how good the sounded.
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      06-30-2016, 12:07 PM   #31
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Really excited to see how the future Z5 and Z3 turn out - is the Z3 still happening too?

Z4 M owner here and enormous fan of the old-school way that it drives, communicative steering, razor-sharp throttle response, revs to the moon.

I hope that the steering will be great! Drove the F80 and wasn't impressed with how it drove. Hoping that the new car will deliver!
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      06-30-2016, 12:13 PM   #32
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BMW reached perfection in design with the 507. Just knock out the exact same body, with modern materials and engines. I'd buy one in an instant, no matter what the cost. The Z8 and Z4 look-alikes are nice. But nothing is better than a 507.

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      06-30-2016, 12:22 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiceyxi View Post
Why? I think the biggest reason is your going to want me to spend probably $55K plus on a car with only 4cyl.
You mean like the new Porsche Boxster/Cayman?

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Originally Posted by spiceyxi View Post
That isn't going to happen if I can pick up an F-Type at a similar price.
Thing is, you can't. An F-Type can't really be had with anything resembling decent equipment for less than $70K ... and they routinely go into six figures.

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Originally Posted by spiceyxi View Post
Plus, have you heard the F-Type? It sounds amazing I just have a hard time believing a 4cyl will be able to give me the acoustic satisfaction.
Task 1: Go hear an Alfa Romeo 4C. Task 2: Go hear a Fiat 500 Abarth. Task 3: Go hear one of those new Porsches I mentioned earlier. Four cylinders can sound phenomenal. No, they aren't gonna sound exactly like a V8 because, well, they're not V8s. Or V12s. Or whatever.

Think about this statement: V-Twin sportbikes have always sounded better than straight 4s. Do you agree? If so, you can throw your 'more cylinders always sound better' argument in the trash heap. It just ain't true. It all depends on how the manufacturer wants an engine to sound -- and to date, most manufacturers simply haven't prioritized it on four-cylinder engines. Until now ... and 'back in the day' (Task 4: Someday, travel to Europe and listen to any vintage Lotus or Renault Alpine.)

Man, I hope BMW knocks future-sports-car tech out of the park with the Z5. I kind of think it needs to to become relevant again in that space.
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      06-30-2016, 02:33 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
You mean like the new Porsche Boxster/Cayman?



Thing is, you can't. An F-Type can't really be had with anything resembling decent equipment for less than $70K ... and they routinely go into six figures.



Task 1: Go hear an Alfa Romeo 4C. Task 2: Go hear a Fiat 500 Abarth. Task 3: Go hear one of those new Porsches I mentioned earlier. Four cylinders can sound phenomenal. No, they aren't gonna sound exactly like a V8 because, well, they're not V8s. Or V12s. Or whatever.

Think about this statement: V-Twin sportbikes have always sounded better than straight 4s. Do you agree? If so, you can throw your 'more cylinders always sound better' argument in the trash heap. It just ain't true. It all depends on how the manufacturer wants an engine to sound -- and to date, most manufacturers simply haven't prioritized it on four-cylinder engines. Until now ... and 'back in the day' (Task 4: Someday, travel to Europe and listen to any vintage Lotus or Renault Alpine.)

Man, I hope BMW knocks future-sports-car tech out of the park with the Z5. I kind of think it needs to to become relevant again in that space.

All very solid points. However, Cayman/Boxster are not the intended target car for the upcoming Z5, but it will be interesting to see how the reception is for them. Porsche can definitely build compelling sports cars so I am sure they will be great fun to drive and sell well. I will always have a wall in my head paying that money for a mass produced modern car with 4cyl. The 4C is one car where I could reconsider that notion though if it weren't for other factors (Where's the nearest dealership and how long will it be open for??).

A well equipped F-Type is close to the $70's+, but it seems like the Z5 will likely fall there as well. Hopefully that is for the 6cyl, but who knows at this point. If BMW can execute the Z5 plan and truly build a great fun car it will be a tough choice. Hopefully they can build on the momentum of the M2 and build another inspiring car to drive.

In terms of sound their are some great examples of smaller motors being great. Again, that 4C is pretty amazing. Owning an Alpha is a scary proposition though. However, it just doesn't seem it has been too much of a focus of BMW. Completly subjective, but the new M3 sound is underwhelming when compared to the previous generation. Again, hopefully BMW kills it on the execution and the Z5 has a great soundtrack. I am just not sure if they can and why I suspect the F-Type will likely have the advantage between the two.

All speculation at this point, but hopefully the M2 is a sign that BMW is moving back in a fun driving experience and the Z5 will meet all of our hopes and surpass my doubts. Only time will tell, but at least they are giving it one more shot at this point.
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      06-30-2016, 06:38 PM   #35
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I just hope they don't go crazy on price and a well equipped Z5 is $100k+. I am okay with a slight increase over current Z4 prices -- but if the jump is as big as from the previous Z4 model to the 2009 model, I may not get one (used to have a 2012). Pricewise, it should try to compete maybe with the Corvette?
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