[JNW1]

Originally Posted by mikeoz

Shame Ed was not this good when he was running the Labour party..may have had a decent opposition.

I also thought Miliband did well yesterday although you could argue he was shooting at an open goal with the Internal Market Bill; in my view that's a daft and unnecessary piece of proposed legislation that's pretty much impossible to defend.

[DougMcL]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

I’m not sure he was that good with this.

It was a powerful, easy, message to get across, but his delivery is still weak and he stumbled about a little.

I think he’s a decent politician, and probably pretty bright, but he’s not leadership material. The wrong Milliband was selected several years ago in my opinion and ultimately it allowed the Labour Party to get to the awful position it ended up in last year.

I think I agree with you. His performance was however excellent compared to any of the useless ministers we have at present. Which is probably why it stood out.

His speech impediment is probably what failed him most. Mrs Thatcher had elocution lessons to sound less shrill...

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by DougMcL

Did anyone else find this amusing. I'm trying to work out whether Boris couldn't give a shit, is deeply uncomfortable or hasn't even read the internal market bill...

Yes, thought Milliband did well although exposing BoZo's lack of grasp of the details isn't that hard for someone with his experience, and Starmer does it regularly. What surprised me more was BoZo's complete lack of response, other than to slide further down the back of his seat.
I can't see BoZo lasting, the Tories will turn on him. He's lazy, dim, dishonest and incompetent, and an increasing liability as a consequence. His govt's handling of the coronavirus crisis has been appalling and leading us to what would now seem to be an inevitable No Deal Brexit is unforgivable.
Good riddance to him - an utter c*nt and the worst PM in my lifetime, not to mention his talentless cabinet.

[Wills2]

OMG:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54260470

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Wills2

OMG:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54260470

Bonkers

[Bibbles]

Will I need my blue passport to get into Kent now?

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

The lorry park England.

Presumably similar delays coming the other way. And why the 10% tariff might be only the start of the rise in cost of goods.

[TimMcC]

Anyone know the difference between a prediction and an illustration of what could be reasonably expected?

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by TimMcC

Anyone know the difference between a prediction and an illustration of what could be reasonably expected?

You would imagine they’re both guesswork.

I work for a company that carries out 3,000 HGV channel crossings per week. And as you can imagine our customers are asking us for concrete predictions of what will happen. Doesn’t matter how much research you do, how much you prepare, you can’t know. We won’t be approaching any border with incorrect paperwork, but that'll be for nothing if loads of others do.

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by Wills2

OMG:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54260470

In the words of one Twitter commentator:

The govt has 3 months to build
- a 380-mile border in Kent
- a mechanism for policing it
- an internal passport system
- a software service
- admin and complaints process

for 2.6m lorries each year
It had twice as long to work out some average A Level scores. And ...
Good luck!

In my words: they are making this up as they go along, literally. Sunlit uplands, eh!?

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

We won’t be approaching any border with incorrect paperwork

Which implies there's no reason for any competent logistics company to be any different; after all, if your company knows what paperwork's required - and is confident they'll be able to have it all in place in good time - why shouldn't other logistics companies be able to do the same? That being the case any long queues in Kent will presumably be the fault of the loads of others who haven't got their act together (or, perhaps equally likely, the French being awkward in order to try to make a point!).

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Which implies there's no reason for any competent logistics company to be any different; after all, if your company knows what paperwork's required - and is confident they'll be able to have it all in place in good time - why shouldn't other logistics companies be able to do the same? That being the case any long queues in Kent will presumably be the fault of the loads of others who haven't got their act together (or, perhaps equally likely, the French being awkward in order to try to make a point!).

I think that’s a bit simplistic. There’s going to be misunderstanding from customers about what is needed from them and hauliers that don’t have the huge resources we do might fall foul of new regulations.

Many will also trust their customers to know what they’re doing and many don’t have a clue yet.

We still don’t know for sure what will happen, but I can’t see it going well initially. And pointing the finger at the French for any delays seems a little ironic to me. We’ve dug this hole, let’s hope we can climb out of it.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

I think that’s a bit simplistic. There’s going to be misunderstanding from customers about what is needed from them and hauliers that don’t have the huge resources we do might fall foul of new regulations.

Many will also trust their customers to know what they’re doing and many don’t have a clue yet.

We still don’t know for sure what will happen, but I can’t see it going well initially. And pointing the finger at the French for any delays seems a little ironic to me. We’ve dug this hole, let’s hope we can climb out of it.

I could be being simplistic as I've never been involved in exporting goods from the UK; however, I'd have thought the paperwork requirements for sending goods to various countries would be relatively easy to get at should you need to do so? Obviously a large company like yours will have dedicated specialists who know the rules - or at least have the information at their fingertips - whereas that might not be the case for a smaller organisation. However, if I had a business exporting to the EU I'd have made sure the company had its ducks in a row and was prepared regardless of whether or not there's a trade deal - it's not like there hasn't been time to think about it!

The French comment was made ever so slightly tongue in cheek but I suspect they'll take great delight in making things as difficult as possible, especially if FTA discussions end in acrimony. You only have to look at how their navy's behaving with migrants attempting to cross the channel to get a feel for how it might go....

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by JNW1

I could be being simplistic as I've never been involved in exporting goods from the UK; however, I'd have thought the paperwork requirements for sending goods to various countries would be relatively easy to get at should you need to do so? Obviously a large company like yours will have dedicated specialists who know the rules - or at least have the information at their fingertips - whereas that might not be the case for a smaller organisation. However, if I had a business exporting to the EU I'd have made sure the company had its ducks in a row and was prepared regardless of whether or not there's a trade deal - it's not like there hasn't been time to think about it!

The French comment was made ever so slightly tongue in cheek but I suspect they'll take great delight in making things as difficult as possible, especially if FTA discussions end in acrimony. You only have to look at how their navy's behaving with migrants attempting to cross the channel to get a feel for how it might go....

Ok, well if everyone does what you think it will be ok I guess and my two penneth from inside the industry won’t mean much.

There isn’t enough road capacity around for everyone to just move to reputable carriers only. There are plenty of owner drivers and small businesses on both sides of the channel that make up a sizeable percentage of capacity. In addition to our 3,000 crossings a week we probably subcontract another 5,000 loads to over 500 other big and small hauliers. We are working through making sure that our regular carriers know what they need to do. But a small piece of work it isn’t. And it isn’t free. I’ve said before, a 10% tariff might be the least of our concerns in the short term.

If it was simple our customers wouldn’t have large Brexit teams in place all pulling their hair out trying cover off all possible negative scenarios should we end up with no deal. Tariffs are easy. Two day delays at ports for just in time supply chains are not.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Ok, well if everyone does what you think it will be ok I guess and my two penneth from inside the industry won’t mean much.

There isn’t enough road capacity around for everyone to just move to reputable carriers only. There are plenty of owner drivers and small businesses on both sides of the channel that make up a sizeable percentage of capacity. In addition to our 3,000 crossings a week we probably subcontract another 5,000 loads to over 500 other big and small hauliers. We are working through making sure that our regular carriers know what they need to do. But a small piece of work it isn’t. And it isn’t free. I’ve said before, a 10% tariff might be the least of our concerns in the short term.

If it was simple our customers wouldn’t have large Brexit teams in place all pulling their hair out trying cover off all possible negative scenarios should we end up with no deal. Tariffs are easy. Two day delays at ports for just in time supply chains are not.

As I've said, I don't claim to be a logistics expert. However, there must be lots of UK businesses who export to non-EU countries - and hence there must be an established process for doing so - and there must also be lots of non-EU countries who export to the EU. Therefore, as a layman, I struggle to understand why it's going to be so difficult for a UK business to export to the EU once the transition period ends; don't businesses (and logistics companies) just need to follow the same procedures and processes that have been in place for years for exporting to non-EU countries?

Not surprisingly this issue has also had an airing on another forum and, to give an alternative point of view, a couple of comments from a logistics specialist on there are:

"it is indeed the freight companies that are lacking in preparation...

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/making-a...rt-declaration

The National Export System and CHIEF have been around a long time. CDS has replaced CHIEF for large operators, however will remain in dual running for an extended period to make things even easier.

The Road Haulage Association (and it's members) are merely displaying their utter lack of professionalism and preparation to engage in processes that have been around for years, are well understood - and that the majority of our trade is loved under.

This is supported by the comparison of AEO approvals in the UK compared to nations such as Germany.

It's also supported by the lack of preparation via EORI applications (which take bugger all time at all).

Every bit of actual evidence points to the industry resting on it's laurels, playing at being international operators whilst not being able to handle the absolute basics of international trade".

And..

"Neither the UK nor the EU is changing the long standing processes for imports or exports for third nations (the majority of our trade). It's merely applicable now to RoRo trade across the channel".

From your comments I suspect you won't agree with him but, as is often the case, there are different points of view on matters Brexit!

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by JNW1

As I've said, I don't claim to be a logistics expert. However, there must be lots of UK businesses who export to non-EU countries - and hence there must be an established process for doing so - and there must also be lots of non-EU countries who export to the EU. Therefore, as a layman, I struggle to understand why it's going to be so difficult for a UK business to export to the EU once the transition period ends; don't businesses (and logistics companies) just need to follow the same procedures and processes that have been in place for years for exporting to non-EU countries?

Not surprisingly this issue has also had an airing on another forum and, to give an alternative point of view, a couple of comments from a logistics specialist on there are:

"it is indeed the freight companies that are lacking in preparation...

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/making-a...rt-declaration

The National Export System and CHIEF have been around a long time. CDS has replaced CHIEF for large operators, however will remain in dual running for an extended period to make things even easier.

The Road Haulage Association (and it's members) are merely displaying their utter lack of professionalism and preparation to engage in processes that have been around for years, are well understood - and that the majority of our trade is loved under.

This is supported by the comparison of AEO approvals in the UK compared to nations such as Germany.

It's also supported by the lack of preparation via EORI applications (which take bugger all time at all).

Every bit of actual evidence points to the industry resting on it's laurels, playing at being international operators whilst not being able to handle the absolute basics of international trade".

And..

"Neither the UK nor the EU is changing the long standing processes for imports or exports for third nations (the majority of our trade). It's merely applicable now to RoRo trade across the channel".

From your comments I suspect you won't agree with him but, as is often the case, there are different points of view on matters Brexit!

As I said earlier, many smaller hauliers don’t have the knowledge and resource. You can label that unprofessional and resting on their laurels, but for the last 47 years they haven’t needed to manage this.

And whilst procedures may be the same as now for non EU countries, only a tiny amount of non EU transport goes by road.

It won’t take drastic events like thousands of trucks in Kent and days of delays to knacker up current supply chains, even just an extra hour or two can make a massive operational and financial difference.

Let’s not forget the government part in this that they’re not keeping up with. More customs agents required, a new IT system should be in place, but doesn’t seem to be on track.

And why would it? We still don’t know if we’re even going to need it! We still have no idea if there’s going to be a deal and no requirement for anything. Brilliant, millions and millions wasted on something that’s not ready should we actually need it, and a pointless waste of money if we don’t.

Same with companies, do they employ more people to deal with their new paperwork now? Or wait to see if no deal is confirmed? Or if a deal is and they’ve already hired they all get fired.

However you want to cut it, Brexit may be good, or it may be bad, but finding out everything at the last minute is BAD whatever side of the fence you sit on.

[TodmordenLad]

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/a...=true&s=09

"Brexit Prompts 7,500 City Jobs, $1.6 Trillion to Leave U.K."

Sunlit uplands, my a*se.

[TodmordenLad]

Result. Not.

[Wills2]

It'll be interesting what happens now Cummins has left along with his side kick, the up coming change over in the US has to have added to the discussions in number 10 on the way forward.

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by Wills2

It'll be interesting what happens now Cummins has left along with his side kick, the up coming change over in the US has to have added to the discussions in number 10 on the way forward.

This govt's idiocy and incompetence is on such a scale, Wills, that I don't hold much hope for a meaningful deal with the EU. We might get one but in name only, in order to save the headlines.

EDIT: One of the most articulate commentators on Brexit I've heard since the referendum is the American, Adam Posen, President of the Peterson Institute for International Economics. I'm sure you're as sick of it all as the next man but he's well worth a listen. His interview in July 2017, posted on the Institute's website, is a good example.

[JustChris]

Well good old Brexit now remains the only blocker to the P Car plan! Mrs JustChris fully onboard and even meddling with colours now .....however signed the usual 10% Tariff paperwork and salesman understands and advised me to cancel if its to be applied.

FFS UK/EU pull your finger out some big issues in hand here.

[TodmordenLad]

Just in case anyone's in any doubt...
Australia and the European Union launched negotiations for a free trade agreement in June 2018 and they are ongoing. There is no deal. I won't add anything further for risk of getting this thread deleted. Suffice to say, it's best to treat every single statement uttered by Boris Johnson with a salt mine sized pinch of salt - then, now and forevermore :