[sensi09]

Originally Posted by starkindustries

blacked out diffuser, and painted spoiler:



Compared to my f30:

Looks the same if you just glance at it

[sensi09]

Originally Posted by verbs

I don't think you're seeing the big picture/myriad of reasons why someone would get these parts. Here are some examples/things to think about:

1 Someone doesn't want a fully loaded 435i but wants maximum performance. So they spend their money on the PPK, M-sport line, dynamic handling package, brakes, exhaust and LSD instead of on the technology package, premium package, cold weather package, driving assistance package, etc. This setup is going to sticker at least $10,000 less than an M3.

2. Someone doesn't want 450hp; some people are genuinely afraid of that much power, and getting something close performancewise is more desireable.

3. The whole "a fully loaded 435i with Mparts is stupid because you can get an M4 at that price" argument is apples to oranges. You can get a ZERO OPTION M4 for maybe roughly the same price as a fully loaded + M parts 435i. For some people, having full amenities in the car is more important than having a bare bones M4 with zero options. Maybe their budget is $65k but they need Navigation, want the better stereo, want leather, etc.

4. High mileage- Some people drive their cars a lot of miles or keep them a long time. If you put 20,000 miles a year on your car you'll have an M4 that's out of warranty in 2.5 years. Or maybe you plan on keeping the car for 7 years. That's a huge risk/liability to own an M car out of warranty; they're stupid expensive to repair. Otherwise you'll have to spend even more money with extended warranties. I personally would feel far safer owning a 435i out of warranty than an M4.

5. Operating costs- You're only looking at base price costs. Everything on an M4 costs more vs. a 435i. Whether it's new tires which cost more on an M4 than a 435i, the higher insurance premiums, more gas usage, or other maitenance costs once the car is out of warranty, the M4 will cost more to own ever after the purchase vs. a 435i.


Also consider that M4s are going to get marked up more than 435i cars and will have less wiggle room especially when they first come out. This puts a further price gap between the cars.

Not everyone needs/wants an M car, but there's no reason that M cars can't be reliable. And overall maintenance is and will be very similar. Time will tell with the new m3/m4, but nothing wrong with piling up the miles on M cars.

Also seems like buyers who get all these M performance mods are the types that will get tunes/mods to have very similar power number as the M4.

[sensi09]

About the differential....I'd probably want something closer to 60% lockup myself.

There are not too many details about this LSD, but 30% should be fine for a daily driver. BMW has to account for noise, smooth engagement and how the LSD interacts with DSC which I'm sure all results in the rather "low" lockup. For a pure track car, I'm sure buyers would look at aftermarket products. Its nice to have an OEM part covered by warranty though. And who knows if the % lockup will be able to be changed.

About the m-diff, you see varying posts about it being a clutch type LSD, but doesn't look to be a pure clutch type. Some good info on the m-diff here if anyone is interested http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=491482

[mwlmd]

Originally Posted by 寶馬.E90

This is going to be a VERY interesting comparo between the S4 and 435i.

S5?

[termigni]

So is this thing a $85,000 4series?

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by termigni

So is this thing a $85,000 4series?

$65-67k is my guess lol.

[verbs]

Originally Posted by sensi09

Not everyone needs/wants an M car, but there's no reason that M cars can't be reliable. And overall maintenance is and will be very similar. Time will tell with the new m3/m4, but nothing wrong with piling up the miles on M cars.

Overall maintenance costs between M-cars and non-M cars aren't similar out of warranty. Reliaiblity is only part of the reason.

Wear and tear items like brake pads/rotors and DCT clutch replacements, that have nothing to do with reliability, are going to be more expensive to replace on an M.

My last car was an E60 M5 so I was very sensitive/in the know about the M related costs that were looming, especially in comparison to non-M cars.

M cars historically have had more parts that could break and the ones that did were often more expensive than non-M parts, whether it was more complexity, better quality, economies of scale, etc... So many performance parts on the M cars are M-specific, whereas a typical 335i engine part for example may be used on all 135i, 235i, 335i, 435i, 535i, 640i, 740 cars, etc... Low volume parts are almost always more expensive to replace.

Originally Posted by sensi09

Also seems like buyers who get all these M performance mods are the types that will get tunes/mods to have very similar power number as the M4.

Maybe a small fraction and the PPK won't get you there. You would then need to order your car without the PPK and look to a JB4 stage 2, catless downpipe, racing gas/e85, etc. If the M4 comes out with 450hp like we've seen tossed around, that's a tall order to add ~145hp to a 435i car on top of stock.

[KANdaddy]

I love the wheels! Does anyone know if the offsets for the 328 and 428 are different? IF not, I'll be getting rid of my 450ms for the coupe wheels as soon as they are available.

[sensi09]

Originally Posted by verbs

Overall maintenance costs between M-cars and non-M cars aren't similar out of warranty. Reliaiblity is only part of the reason.

Wear and tear items like brake pads/rotors and DCT clutch replacements, that have nothing to do with reliability, are going to be more expensive to replace on an M.

My last car was an E60 M5 so I was very sensitive/in the know about the M related costs that were looming, especially in comparison to non-M cars.

M cars historically have had more parts that could break and the ones that did were often more expensive than non-M parts, whether it was more complexity, better quality, economies of scale, etc... So many performance parts on the M cars are M-specific, whereas a typical 335i engine part for example may be used on all 135i, 235i, 335i, 435i, 535i, 640i, 740 cars, etc... Low volume parts are almost always more expensive to replace.



Maybe a small fraction and the PPK won't get you there. You would then need to order your car without the PPK and look to a JB4 stage 2, catless downpipe, racing gas/e85, etc. If the M4 comes out with 450hp like we've seen tossed around, that's a tall order to add ~145hp to a 435i car on top of stock.

Have an e90 M3 which are proving much more reliable than the e60, but overall I don't think its that bad. OEM rotors are pricey, and yes there are not many or any options for cheaper aftermarket blanks available. Almost makes sense to move up to a small BBK up front when the time comes.

I do over 20K miles a year and even with no more warranty, it's not really a concern. A big ticket item would hurt though, but even on a non M it would still be quite pricey.

Don't follow the threads too closely, but see many reports for 415bhp for the M4. Adding 100 crank hp shouldn't be too hard with these cars....nevermind that the M4 should be easily tuneable too.

[i001947]

Don't like the many sharp edges in the front and rear bumpers.

[turbolag]

Originally Posted by 寶馬.E90

This is going to be a VERY interesting comparo between the S4 and 435i.

You mean S5...

[chrisny]

Originally Posted by 寶馬.E90

This is going to be a VERY interesting comparo between the S4 and 435i.

I think you mean S5?

Edit: sorry, I see I'm probably the 10th to point that out....

[nesrevival]

m4 will be 61k for sure

[verbs]

Originally Posted by nesrevival

m4 will be 61k for sure

i bet more than that....

[Legion5]

I'm liking this a lot better. They're bringing back some of the details they obliterated from the concept and making it look nice. The balance could still be tweaked but its a very nice and unique setup.

You'll see maybe 1 or 2 of these on the road in your lifetime versus hundreds of M4's. THAT'S why you want this kit. It's for the uniqueness. It's special.

I hope they make a similar kit for the M4. I could really like that. I was initially leaning to the M2 as well.

[xilence]

anyone know if you can apply those parts to 428i?

[06E90Rostik]

The fender "///M" badge is laughable. Here I thought that "335is" badge was silly.

The 20" rims are nice looking but do not fit the car, at least I personally would not risk driving them in my area, those rubber bands of a tires will offer no protection against pot holes and ride quality will be shit, but they look superb, both style and finish.

[AtlantaDude]

WTH.. Performance steering wheel that ISN'T flat bottomed?! Da-Fuq BMW?!

[Al-Arsenalawy]

i'm lovin this edition

[xlover]

Hidden Secondary benefit of the mechanical LSD is for those of us who are thinking about rwd in snow/ice... The ability to get 30% of the power to the wheel with grip without dsc killing momentum with the brakes will be helpful. Obviously the performance benefit is the main reason to buy it but there are some little extra benefits as well!

[Diver]

32 hp from a PPK, wow. Now BMW can update my PPK to 32 hp.

[MikeVictor]

Originally Posted by verbs

I don't think you're seeing the big picture/myriad of reasons why someone would get these parts. Here are some examples/things to think about:

1 Someone doesn't want a fully loaded 435i but wants maximum performance. So they spend their money on the PPK, M-sport line, dynamic handling package, brakes, exhaust and LSD instead of on the technology package, premium package, cold weather package, driving assistance package, etc. This setup is going to sticker at least $10,000 less than an M3.

2. Someone doesn't want 450hp; some people are genuinely afraid of that much power, and getting something close performancewise is more desireable.

3. The whole "a fully loaded 435i with Mparts is stupid because you can get an M4 at that price" argument is apples to oranges. You can get a ZERO OPTION M4 for maybe roughly the same price as a fully loaded + M parts 435i. For some people, having full amenities in the car is more important than having a bare bones M4 with zero options. Maybe their budget is $65k but they need Navigation, want the better stereo, want leather, etc.

4. High mileage- Some people drive their cars a lot of miles or keep them a long time. If you put 20,000 miles a year on your car you'll have an M4 that's out of warranty in 2.5 years. Or maybe you plan on keeping the car for 7 years. That's a huge risk/liability to own an M car out of warranty; they're stupid expensive to repair. Otherwise you'll have to spend even more money with extended warranties. I personally would feel far safer owning a 435i out of warranty than an M4.

5. Operating costs- You're only looking at base price costs. Everything on an M4 costs more vs. a 435i. Whether it's new tires which cost more on an M4 than a 435i, the higher insurance premiums, more gas usage, or other maitenance costs once the car is out of warranty, the M4 will cost more to own ever after the purchase vs. a 435i.


Also consider that M4s are going to get marked up more than 435i cars and will have less wiggle room especially when they first come out. This puts a further price gap between the cars.

Well said.

The same logic applies to 28i vs 35i (and probably 20i or 18i to 28i/35i). Points 3, 4 and 5 ring true for me.