[Olly_P]

I'm looking for a bit of info and advice on lowering my 440i Gran Coupe. It's a 2017 M-Sport with adaptive suspension.

I'd like to keep the shocks so essentially looking at springs only, with mild lowering as its my daily driver. From various other posts i've read ACS springs are the way to go so happy to go down that route.

However pretty much every post i've found is about the x-drive 4 series, not RWD. The x-drives on ACS springs get more of a drop and there are lots of info + pictures of these, but very few on a RWD, especially with adaptive shocks.

So I guess i'm asking if any one has any pictures / reviews / lowering amount / info of a 4 series Gran Coupe, RWD with ACS springs, ideally with adaptive shocks. I've read so many posts but haven't been able to find what i'm looking for.

I haven't contacted Lorcan yet but sure he would have some good advice.

I'll also look to getting some hubcentric 10mm and 12mm Eibach spaces, used them on previous cars without any problems. Only recently got the car so just looking at this stage.

[McBeemer]

Originally Posted by Olly_P

I'm looking for a bit of info and advice on lowering my 440i Gran Coupe. It's a 2017 M-Sport with adaptive suspension.

I'd like to keep the shocks so essentially looking at springs only, with mild lowering as its my daily driver. From various other posts i've read ACS springs are the way to go so happy to go down that route.

However pretty much every post i've found is about the x-drive 4 series, not RWD. The x-drives on ACS springs get more of a drop and there are lots of info + pictures of these, but very few on a RWD, especially with adaptive shocks.

So I guess i'm asking if any one has any pictures / reviews / lowering amount / info of a 4 series Gran Coupe, RWD with ACS springs, ideally with adaptive shocks. I've read so many posts but haven't been able to find what i'm looking for.

I haven't contacted Lorcan yet but sure he would have some good advice.

I'll also look to getting some hubcentric 10mm and 12mm Eibach spaces, used them on previous cars without any problems. Only recently got the car so just looking at this stage.

I think the reason why xdrives are more popular with ACS springs is beacause the drives use SE suspension, which is not as low as the rear wheel drive variants. The end result of ride height should be the same for either though

[teaston]

Says 20mm on ACS website:

https://shop.ac-schnitzer.co.uk/susp...rom-5051-p.asp

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Olly_P

I'm looking for a bit of info and advice on lowering my 440i Gran Coupe. It's a 2017 M-Sport with adaptive suspension.

I'd like to keep the shocks so essentially looking at springs only, with mild lowering as its my daily driver. From various other posts i've read ACS springs are the way to go so happy to go down that route.

However pretty much every post i've found is about the x-drive 4 series, not RWD. The x-drives on ACS springs get more of a drop and there are lots of info + pictures of these, but very few on a RWD, especially with adaptive shocks.

So I guess i'm asking if any one has any pictures / reviews / lowering amount / info of a 4 series Gran Coupe, RWD with ACS springs, ideally with adaptive shocks. I've read so many posts but haven't been able to find what i'm looking for.

I haven't contacted Lorcan yet but sure he would have some good advice.

I'll also look to getting some hubcentric 10mm and 12mm Eibach spaces, used them on previous cars without any problems. Only recently got the car so just looking at this stage.

IMO use Eibach springs. They go well with adaptive suspension. They are about 10% stiffer than stock so more control without added harshness of most aftermarket springs. See photo for part number and drop.

[Lorcan]

These pics are of a 435i, which uses the same kit as the 440i.

[M140_BCS]

Originally Posted by johnung

IMO use Eibach springs. They go well with adaptive suspension. They are about 10% stiffer than stock so more control without added harshness of most aftermarket springs. See photo for part number and drop.

+1 for Eibach Pro Springs.

Bought mine through the Autodoc app - £150 delivered.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by M140_BCS

+1 for Eibach Pro Springs.

Bought mine through the Autodoc app - £150 delivered.

I'm curious.What's your experience been with the Bilstein B6 Damptronics? How is the ride difference versus stock Active struts/shocks? Did any of your stock ones leak or did you just upgrade? Thanks!

[Olly_P]

Thanks for the replys and pictures, really useful.

I ran Eibach springs on my old 330D E90 and was pleased with them.

I think i'll go down the ACS route this time round for the reasons people have mentioned. Plus the Eibach springs looks like they have a slight difference between front and rear lowering on an F36 in some pictures and forum posts.

Will post some picture on here and build thread once I get round to sorting out. Quite a big arch gap at the moment so keen to get some fitted sooner rather than later!

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Soul_Glo

IMHO ACS are better suited to the car. Eibach is a cheaper way in but ACS are finely tuned. You get handling without harshness. The spring is progressive. If there is a way you can test them back to back in a blind study I bet you'd go for ACS. The ACS is built on research and the Eibach is a generic spring.

You also get the peace of mind with ACS and warranty. A dealer is more likely to worm their way out come Eibach. Dealers can actually supply and fit ACS. ACS have shared a long-standing relationship with BMW tuning houses and it's pretty solid.

You wouldn't install a generic remap on your car. Customised springs FTW!

I'm sorry but IMHO your post reads like an outlandish marketing advert for ACS. ACS are "customizable" springs, but Eibach are "generic" springs. Hogwash! A spring is a coiled piece of wire with finite measurable characteristics.

ACS may develop some types of products, but on others they contract to resell another company's product. Many companies do these types of partnerships. It is very common. ACS slaps their marketing brand on and sells another company's product at a premium as their own.

It's common knowledge that ACS springs are Eibach springs with an ACS name on them. The common response to this fact is to admit that Eibach does indeed make the springs for ACS, but to then claim that they are somehow made by Eibach to some hocus pocus special ACS specification. Again, hogwash!

Farkle! has debunked that claim by getting the actual spring specifications from both ACS and Eibach for specific BMW springs. Read his posts on the subject. Guess what? The two springs are identical.

It is a coiled piece of wire with finite specifications. The ACS springs for my BMW have the exact same specifications as the Eibach springs for my BMW. There is no ACS pixie dust. That is pure ACS marketing fluff!

People make great careers and a lot of money out of building brands with marketing. But a brand name and marketing hijinks does not make all of their claims true. Marketeers embellish to get people to buy their product and they spew FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) about their competitors product to steer potential customers away.

Guess what- both ACS brand and Eibach brand springs are excellent, because they are identical. Made in the same factories, to the same specifications, just with a different name in a different box. Can't go wrong with installing either on your BMW.

Granted there may be other reasons to choose one over the other in a particular case such as price or availability or warranty or whatever you personally value. But claiming that one identical wire is somehow technically superior to another identical wire coiled in an identical fashion at the identical factory, well, that is just marketing hogwash!

[McBeemer]

Originally Posted by johnung

I'm sorry but IMHO your post reads like an outlandish marketing advert for ACS. ACS are "customizable" springs, but Eibach are "generic" springs. Hogwash! A spring is a coiled piece of wire with finite measurable characteristics.

ACS may develop some types of products, but on others they contract to resell another company's product. Many companies do these types of partnerships. It is very common. ACS slaps their marketing brand on and sells another company's product at a premium as their own.

It's common knowledge that ACS springs are Eibach springs with an ACS name on them. The common response to this fact is to admit that Eibach does indeed make the springs for ACS, but to then claim that they are somehow made by Eibach to some hocus pocus special ACS specification. Again, hogwash!

Farkle! has debunked that claim by getting the actual spring specifications from both ACS and Eibach for specific BMW springs. Read his posts on the subject. Guess what? The two springs are identical.

It is a coiled piece of wire with finite specifications. The ACS springs for my BMW have the exact same specifications as the Eibach springs for my BMW. There is no ACS pixie dust. That is pure ACS marketing fluff!

People make great careers and a lot of money out of building brands with marketing. But a brand name and marketing hijinks does not make all of their claims true. Marketeers embellish to get people to buy their product and they spew FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) about their competitors product to steer potential customers away.

Guess what- both ACS brand and Eibach brand springs are excellent, because they are identical. Made in the same factories, to the same specifications, just with a different name in a different box. Can't go wrong with installing either on your BMW.

Granted there may be other reasons to choose one over the other in a particular case such as price or availability or warranty or whatever you personally value. But claiming that one identical wire is somehow technically superior to another identical wire coiled in an identical fashion at the identical factory, well, that is just marketing hogwash!

If you were in the UK Lorcan would fill you in, talking such nonsense

[johnung]

Originally Posted by McBeemer

If you were in the UK Lorcan would fill you in, talking such nonsense

Ah, no thank you. In the US that's referred to as drinking the Kool-Aid

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Soul_Glo

Go on. Prove it then.

Upload your evidence and findings.

Please be sure to include your findings on how a spring that drops lower than another has identical spring rates.

I've got nothing to prove. By the way, all you did was state opinion. I simply stated my opinion of your opinion. My opinion, as I stated, is based on clear facts that have already been posted which anyone who cares can look up themselves. Nothing left to say.
Be safe!

[Lorcan]

I've addressed this topic before but I'm happy to look at it again as last time it resulted in more sales for us

Full disclaimer: I also sell Eibach

Eibach are component suppliers to AC Schnitzer, many other tuner brands and some OEMs. It should be no great surprise that two cars of similar weight, whatever the manufacturer, will gravitate towards springs of similar specification and the same is true in the tuning world. There are instances where spring A from one company will be the same as spring B from elsewhere.

I'm sorry but IMHO your post reads like an outlandish marketing advert for ACS. ACS are "customizable" springs, but Eibach are "generic" springs. Hogwash! A spring is a coiled piece of wire with finite measurable characteristics.

"Generic" might be too strong a word but let's get one thing clear. Eibach do not have access to every model and variant of BMW and MINI to test drive in the real world. AC Schnitzer do, as they are part of the Kohl BMW Group, one of the largest BMW dealer groups in Germany. AC Schnitzer do more real world testing and development of suspension for BMWs than anyone.

ACS may develop some types of products, but on others they contract to resell another company's product. Many companies do these types of partnerships. It is very common. ACS slaps their marketing brand on and sells another company's product at a premium as their own.

No such contract exists.

It's common knowledge that ACS springs are Eibach springs with an ACS name on them. The common response to this fact is to admit that Eibach does indeed make the springs for ACS, but to then claim that they are somehow made by Eibach to some hocus pocus special ACS specification. Again, hogwash!

Farkle! has debunked that claim by getting the actual spring specifications from both ACS and Eibach for specific BMW springs. Read his posts on the subject. Guess what? The two springs are identical.

It is a coiled piece of wire with finite specifications. The ACS springs for my BMW have the exact same specifications as the Eibach springs for my BMW. There is no ACS pixie dust. That is pure ACS marketing fluff!

Eibach list two kits for the F30 335ix and one for the F31 335ix. AC Schnitzer only list one kit. One of the Eibach F30 kits has different front springs to the AC Schnitzer kit (250mm Eibach, 235mm AC Schnitzer) and the Eibach F31 kit has different rear springs. As I mentioned earlier, it is possible and no surprise to find similarities (especially given that Eibach have access to AC Schnitzer specifications) if you want to go looking for them, but this by no means the rule. There is no blanket marketing of Eibach springs as AC Schnitzer springs.

People make great careers and a lot of money out of building brands with marketing. But a brand name and marketing hijinks does not make all of their claims true. Marketeers embellish to get people to buy their product and they spew FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) about their competitors product to steer potential customers away.

I don't seem to have made a great career OR a lot of money! . Really I have no reason to do this as I sell both AC Schnitzer and Eibach. I simply point out the benefits of each.

Guess what- both ACS brand and Eibach brand springs are excellent, because they are identical. Made in the same factories, to the same specifications, just with a different name in a different box. Can't go wrong with installing either on your BMW.

In the majority of cases this is simply not true.

[Olly_P]

I vaguely remember reading a thread when looking into springs where Lorcan from ACS said some of their springs are rebadged Eibachs and some are different as go through additional testing etc.

I've had a look but can't seems to find the thread (search functions not brilliant on this site).

So you both might be right

[Olly_P]

Oops, I should have refreshed the webpage before replying.

[Lorcan]

Originally Posted by Olly_P

I vaguely remember reading a thread when looking into springs where Lorcan from ACS said some of their springs are rebadged Eibachs and some are different as go through additional testing etc.

I've had a look but can't seems to find the thread (search functions not brilliant on this site).

So you both might be right

They are all made by Eibach. They are not all the same.

[Olly_P]

Makes sense, thanks for clarifying

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Soul_Glo

johnung what is your FACTUAL opinion on this?

Stay safe too.

Oh, boy! First of all, let's recall how this conversation started. You made statements trying to frame ACS springs as a completely different "finely tuned" product, "customized springs" versus "generic" Eibach. I called you on it by pointing out that Eibach makes ACS springs.

I know for a fact that the ACS springs for my car are made by Eibach, and that the finite specifications are identical. Like I said, it's a coiled wire so there are few actual product differentiators. The published spec on the two products from the two companies are identical.

Your premise that they are completely different products with ACS springs being at some much higher level was blown up by Lorcan's post. So you can dance around like a court jester if you like, but the basis of your entire argument holds no water.

A little background on myself. I spent a portion of my career in a technical engineering group where product marketing managers would come before us and pitch how our new technical product would be marketed versus our competition.

Sometimes our product had clear technical advantages. Sometimes our competitors product was technically superior to ours. And sometimes our company was being supplied a product by another company that we were slapping our brand name on. In a case of rebranding, we had to figure out how to convince customers to buy the product from us instead of from the company who actually made it and could probably sell it to them for less.

We adjusted the marketing message before it was rolled out to sales people and engineers worldwide. We had to be certain that they weren't making outlandish claims or outright lying. Plus we had to make certain that they were explaining our technical advantages properly and in an understandable manner to potential customers.

The reason that I gave some of my background is that I intend to compliment Lorcan. I've been reading his stuff for years and he is really very good. It's much like watching the high level pitches that I described. I'd rate him in the top 20% of presenters that I've heard and that's a huge compliment. I'm sure that he is very successful. If he isn't making big money then he should change employers or industries, because he is wasting his talents where he is.

Lorcan's post was excellent. He parsed my post so that he could use different techniques to address/refute/downplay what I had said. He switched between saying that a blanket statements couldn't be made, to then zeroing in on one specific example that he had. You can practically hear a reader nodding and saying "yes"- agreeing as he made each of his points.

IMO Lorcan's three notable statements were:

1) "Eibach are component suppliers to AC Schnitzer, many other tuner brands and some OEMs."

It's the perfect way to admit that Eibach makes ACS springs by also referring to Eibach as only a "component supplier". The wording is almost magical in conveying that ACS is somehow at a higher level in regards to the springs in question, when in reality they are not.

2) Later he states... "No such contract exists."

This was the weakest statement in his post. In #1 he flat out admitted that the two companies have a contractual relationship. So making this statement here undermines his credibility. Appears like stretching to say something obviously false. Would have been better if he had left that section of his response out.

3) "As I mentioned earlier, it is possible and no surprise to find similarities (especially given that Eibach have access to AC Schnitzer specifications)"

This is another magical statement that I've seen him write in various forms previously. It's admitting to a discerning customer that if they look closely they will find "similarities"- what a great word to use to disarm the fact that they are "identical"! It's like looking at two Estoril Blue BMWs and referring to them as being "similar in color".

But the absolute highlight phrase is "...Eibach have access to AC Schnitzer specifications)"

That beautiful statement absolutely conjures up the marketing image of ACS being the "engineering" part of the partnership and Eibach doing the simpleton grunt work of just making the product. As if ACS said, oh Eibach when you are done making the product for us, feel free to make some for yourself! After you are done cooking the meal to our recipe, feel free to have a plate yourself in the kitchen.

Haha! Just beautiful wording! Standing ovation!

Reality is that Eibach did the original engineering and manufacturing for the springs. ACS probably considered their own line of springs and made the business decision that it was better to strike a rebranding deal with Eibach who was a leader in that space. Companies do this rebranding all of the time to fill out their product lines. Maybe there are a few items that Eibach doesn't market in their own product portfolio that ACS does. There can be dozens of reasons for that.

A few years ago I was working on a project to use a product from Koni that was months away from release. I had many conversations with a high level technical guy at Koni. We discussed how various aftermarket springs, bumpstops, etc might potentially work with the upcoming Koni product. I mentioned that I had read positive things about ACS springs, but they seemed more expensive than others in the market.

He was the one who first told me. He said that Koni was already testing Eibach springs with their new product. He said that there would be no point to including ACS in that particular test because the ACS springs were identical. He said that it was common knowledge in the industry that ACS springs are mostly rebranded Eibachs.

I took note of that and I subsequently installed Eibach springs on my own car. Later Farkle! published his findings after he had obtained spring specs from ACS and from Eibach. That just confirmed exactly what Koni had told me.

Back to your original premise that ACS springs are somehow different from, and head and shoulders above Eibach...well that's obviously bunk! Both ACS and Eibach are quality products and if you are considering them for your BMW, they are likely even identical springs made in the same factories.

So either blindly believe whatever you like. Or if you are a more discerning customer, be sure to wade carefully through the slick marketing language for the actual facts. As I said previously, there very well may be some other purchase factor such as price or availability or warranty or service or support or one comes in a prettier color. Whatever is important to you, as long as you are happy customer. That's what's important. Good luck!

[Lorcan]

Thanks for your kind words John, I am very flattered and will update my resume accordingly with your name as a referee

Regarding your point 2) I would like to make it clear that I was referring to contractual relationship to simply rebrand Eibach springs as AC Schnitzer without any changes. I have explained everything to you that has been explained to me in terms of the development process and stand by my claims that AC Schnitzer do their own development and that there is no contract to simply rebrand whatever Eibach come up with. I notice you have not argued my case that AC Schnitzer has access to the cars and Eibach does not. How do you explain this? I know for a fact that the Eibach X3M spring kit presented to AC Schnitzer was found lacking in real world testing and was reconfigured by AC Schnitzer before production.

[Olly_P]

Thanks for all the useful info.

Decided to purchase some ACS springs in the end and had fitted by Mulgari in Bracknell. They're just in the process of moving premises at the moment but really helpful, friendly and most importantly did a good job of installing.

Really happy with the lowering, nice and even and get pretty much bang on the 2cm all round lowering. Ride is pretty much stock for the most part but feels more planted when pushing on, my wife didn't notice the difference.

BEFORE


AFTER


BEFORE measurements:
Passenger front - 37cm
Passenger rear - 37cm
Driver front - 37.3cm
Driver rear - 36cm

AFTER measurements:
Passenger front - 35cm
Passenger rear - 35cm
Driver front - 35cm
Driver rear - 34.5m

Total LOWERING:
Passenger front - 2cm
Passenger rear - 2cm
Driver front - 2.3cm
Driver rear - 2.5cm

[jedi-knight83]

Originally Posted by Olly_P

Thanks for all the useful info.

Decided to purchase some ACS springs in the end and had fitted by Mulgari in Bracknell. They're just in the process of moving premises at the moment but really helpful, friendly and most importantly did a good job of installing.

Really happy with the lowering, nice and even and get pretty much bang on the 2cm all round lowering. Ride is pretty much stock for the most part but feels more planted when pushing on, my wife didn't notice the difference.

BEFORE


AFTER


BEFORE measurements:
Passenger front - 37cm
Passenger rear - 37cm
Driver front - 37.3cm
Driver rear - 36cm

AFTER measurements:
Passenger front - 35cm
Passenger rear - 35cm
Driver front - 35cm
Driver rear - 34.5m

Total LOWERING:
Passenger front - 2cm
Passenger rear - 2cm
Driver front - 2.3cm
Driver rear - 2.5cm

This looks perfect. I've got a 430d (non XD) and I think its the same kit part number.

Only thing that MIGHT make a difference is I don't have the adaptive suspension?

Lorcan ?

[Lorcan]

Originally Posted by jedi-knight83

This looks perfect. I've got a 430d (non XD) and I think its the same kit part number.

Only thing that MIGHT make a difference is I don't have the adaptive suspension?

Lorcan ?

Adaptive makes no difference, but the 430d has a slightly different kit, number 3130233360 for RWD convertible.