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      01-23-2018, 11:04 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
the problem with the i3 is they made it very ugly. sure, this is an individual taste, but i have NEVER heard anyone say they like the way it looks. i've heard tons of people say its ugly. uglier than my smart car.
plus, they aren't willing to deal on the i3. when i was exploring leases, it was as much as a gas/diesel three series. no thanks.
My i3 is charmingly ugly IMHO but I'm in the minority. Most i3 drivers I know like owning it, including myself. They are great in the city and in traffic. That being said, it is overpriced compared to what you get in with the competition. At $50k you should at least get the range of a Volt with the quirkyness and design aspects of the i3. I love the suicide doors, I love the interior, the iDrive etc. The price not so much. That being said, no one is paying $50k and the lease I got was a steal. I would not pay full price for this vehicle.
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      01-23-2018, 11:34 PM   #46
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The entire i division has been a disaster for BMW. Years in making, billions of dollars spent, overhyped, under-delivering. On the bright side, I'm sure a lot of the R&D performed over the years will be useful in future models.

It's unfortunate for the i8 as such a beautiful design went to waste. We are talking Porsche GT3 and Audi R8 prices here for a car that puts up Boxster/Cayman performance. Price it $50K less and we are talking. Should have either went full electric or none at all.
Your pricing is not correct. While both my i8 and 991 GT3 have the same MSRP, the GT3 costs twice as much in reality. I got the i8 at a huge discount to MSRP with a massively subsidized money factor and residual. I'm leasing it for what you guys are paying for high spec M4's.
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      01-23-2018, 11:59 PM   #47
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My i3 is charmingly ugly IMHO but I'm in the minority. Most i3 drivers I know like owning it, including myself. They are great in the city and in traffic. That being said, it is overpriced compared to what you get in with the competition. At $50k you should at least get the range of a Volt with the quirkyness and design aspects of the i3. I love the suicide doors, I love the interior, the iDrive etc. The price not so much. That being said, no one is paying $50k and the lease I got was a steal. I would not pay full price for this vehicle.
i actually don't mind the looks. i like the way it looks more than my smart car. i have really taken a liking to driving an electric car, and i really like it being in a small package like the smart car- so we are in the same boat on that one. fantastic usability around town.
a lease of an i3 simply didn't make sense for me. they wanted $2,500 down (the entire california electronic incentive) and it was still almost $300 a month, not including insurance.
i leased my smart for $1k down including all taxes/etc., and my payment is $86 a month. 10k mi/yr, 36 mo. with insurance and electricity costs, i'm in the car and driving it for about $220 a month (actual costs). plus, i got a check for $2,500 from the state. it was literally a free car to drive and put miles on- i would have been stupid not to sign the lease. what is even better, is i have really taken a liking to the weirdness of the smart. it has power windows, locks, and a radio. thats it. i would enjoy an i3, tesla, golf-e, focus electric, bolt, etc., more and have better luxury features, but i like saving money more.
the i3 just didn't bridge that financial gap for me, and probably not for a lot of people. i feel like the electric car segment is niche to people who can afford to have one as their second or third vehicle (the smart is my 3rd, 4th if you count my wife's car). an electric car that gets 130 miles of range that still costs $300+ a month isn't going to do well. i wouldn't be surprised if they killed the i3 and just started putting battery packs in the floors of the 3 series and calling that the e3 or something.

even bmw's plug in hybrids aren't on par with others... and they cost significantly more. i haven't ran the numbers, but it has to be an astronomical amount of miles you would have to put on the hybrid 3 series to justify the added cost over a regular gas car.
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      01-24-2018, 12:06 AM   #48
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here is another thing i don't understand- why is NOBODY doing a hybrid electric diesel? seems like a no-brainer. they could manage it like the i3's range extender where the diesel engine idles and charges a battery, but has the capability of using the diesel engine for propulsion. why is nobody doing this?!
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      01-24-2018, 12:25 AM   #49
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...said the guy who bought a Smart Car...
its a lease. and i'm not claiming she's a beauty pageant candidate, either.
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      01-24-2018, 08:13 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Your pricing is not correct. While both my i8 and 991 GT3 have the same MSRP, the GT3 costs twice as much in reality. I got the i8 at a huge discount to MSRP with a massively subsidized money factor and residual. I'm leasing it for what you guys are paying for high spec M4's.
Yup I know that, but the i8 was priced too high to begin with which is why they have to offer all these discounts and cheap leases.
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      01-24-2018, 08:47 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Your pricing is not correct. While both my i8 and 991 GT3 have the same MSRP, the GT3 costs twice as much in reality. I got the i8 at a huge discount to MSRP with a massively subsidized money factor and residual. I'm leasing it for what you guys are paying for high spec M4's.
^^^That.

I challenge you to find me a GT3 that isn't marked up 50k.
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      01-24-2018, 01:48 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
here is another thing i don't understand- why is NOBODY doing a hybrid electric diesel? seems like a no-brainer. they could manage it like the i3's range extender where the diesel engine idles and charges a battery, but has the capability of using the diesel engine for propulsion. why is nobody doing this?!
Audi and Volvo have made diesel hybrids. But have since used petrol hybrid lately, as has everyone else.
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      01-24-2018, 02:02 PM   #53
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I want to see a turbine/electric hybrid. Closed-cycle turbines are very efficient, burn clean, make good power, and can run on just about anything (gas, diesel, propane, hydrogen, etc.)
Their weak spots are non-instantaneous response because they want to run at a constant, high RPM, and the lack of engine braking, but an electric drivetrain would solve both of those problems, just like a diesel-electric locomotive works.
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      01-24-2018, 02:43 PM   #54
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I don't understand why electric cars have to look so different. Make the same version of a car in both electric and gas powered or hybrid.
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      01-24-2018, 05:34 PM   #55
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I like to think of Electric cars as like everyday gadgets such as your smart phone. To which you need to apply updates in order to use the latest apps,security etc...
personally I do not think it is actually going to be too long now when opening your bonnet becomes a thing of the past. And your "engine" will be a chip as small as a sugar cube but still function every aspect of the car.

Where BMWi are heading now is that an i3 will be an Electric 3er or an iX3 the Electric X3. And i8 would be an Electric 8er and an iX8 an Electric X8. There is still plenty of time to develop replacements for the i3 and i8 but positioning is strategically more important.
It was always set out that the next incarnation of the i8 would be a full EV and that BMW have actual current i8 prototypes which are not only full Electric but also autonomous.

This gives an idea. See if anything feels familiar?
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      01-24-2018, 07:48 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
My i3 is charmingly ugly IMHO but I'm in the minority. Most i3 drivers I know like owning it, including myself. They are great in the city and in traffic. That being said, it is overpriced compared to what you get in with the competition. At $50k you should at least get the range of a Volt with the quirkyness and design aspects of the i3. I love the suicide doors, I love the interior, the iDrive etc. The price not so much. That being said, no one is paying $50k and the lease I got was a steal. I would not pay full price for this vehicle.

i3 is not ugly, for a small car its a good design. people who hate on it are usually the same people with VERY traditional tastes, who like same tired improved sedna designs, would tuck their shirts in on the weekend and wear a rolex with a date complication. Ignore them. Dont stress out - I think i3 is very cool in that charming way. And those moaning about i8 being a lawnmower in super car body - jesus, they completely miss the point. NOTHING looks like this futurisitc. You are driving a concept car. Its BMWs Delorean really, slow may be to some, but very futuristic. You gotta be insane to think buying that car will be something you take to the racetrack. Usually cool things are misunderstood, so its ok.

Besides, if BMW is cool, they should replace battery packs on them tesla style for some reasonable number, so that owners can enjoy those cars for next 5-10 years without feeling like they have an old cell phone they should dump. I3 with 600km range on updated batteries will be in demand Im sure.
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      01-26-2018, 10:50 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Tallest View Post
i3 is not ugly, for a small car its a good design. people who hate on it are usually the same people with VERY traditional tastes, who like same tired improved sedna designs, would tuck their shirts in on the weekend and wear a rolex with a date complication. Ignore them. Dont stress out - I think i3 is very cool in that charming way. And those moaning about i8 being a lawnmower in super car body - jesus, they completely miss the point. NOTHING looks like this futurisitc. You are driving a concept car. Its BMWs Delorean really, slow may be to some, but very futuristic. You gotta be insane to think buying that car will be something you take to the racetrack. Usually cool things are misunderstood, so its ok.

Besides, if BMW is cool, they should replace battery packs on them tesla style for some reasonable number, so that owners can enjoy those cars for next 5-10 years without feeling like they have an old cell phone they should dump. I3 with 600km range on updated batteries will be in demand Im sure.

I wear Jeans and a t-shirt on the weekend(mostly PJ's though) and don't wear a Rolex and I think the i3 is hideous.

Nice generalization though!
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      01-26-2018, 02:09 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Norway has HUGE electric car incentives and taxes the crap out of gasoline powered cars. Not to mention other incentives that promote a near 40% e-car sales market for e-cars.

Yes, BMW has produced around ~45K i3's for world wide production... (recently BMW sold it's 100K i-car, globally) but I was responding to a forum member is the US market. For BMW NA to only sell 6K i3's is not a sales success, IF you ask me. And when an i3 can cost the same as a 5er(say a 528i)... I know which one I would buy.

I like the i3... but it IS too expensive for what it is. I suspect in another year the CPO market will be flooded with them in the USA.

Dackel
Thanks for the context (as usual), sir. When nearly a quarter of worldwide sales of a product is to one sparsely populated country that subsidizes that product to the point where its citizenry are all but bribed to adopt it, there's something wrong with the picture.

To Norwegians (and, to an extent, Dutch): The automotive world does not revolve around you, just as it does not revolve around the U.S., either. Think globally or stay home.
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      01-27-2018, 05:26 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
I wear Jeans and a t-shirt on the weekend(mostly PJ's though) and don't wear a Rolex and I think the i3 is hideous.

Nice generalization though!
Its supposed to be exaggeration. I hinted at that people kinda missed the point with what this car is supposed to be. Especially the i8. I stand by my delorean comparison. They are a bit hard on BMW. I actually tested BMW i3 over a weekend, the stupid thing failed to start on me and left me utterly frustrated and I still thought it was cool - but way way too raw at the time. Especially I hated the idea of the ar just being on-off. Like a phone, when you get a black screen and it is dead - you have no idea what to do next. Now your car will make all the funny noises and you can sorta tell whats wrong with it or make it somewhere. But electric being off is off. Walk away. That part concerned me, especially as they are often pitched as these "reliable cars with no moving parts unlike combustion engine cars".
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      02-01-2018, 09:12 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACZakka325i View Post
Regardless, both "i" models have been total flops to date. I hope they put some performance back into these as BMW is really going down the wrong road these days.
Fake News

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
What happens when these electric variants don't sell? Is BMW going to start making "real" cars again or are they too far down the German Toyota rabbit hole?
What will happen when they do sell, and sell like crazy? Will your head explode?

Quote:
Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
I8 is not a flop, its a niche car at a high price that few people can afford. I3 is a flop, but bmw is not surprised nor upset. They dont want to make electric cars at volume, its unfamiliar to them so they targeted a small market. The tesla demand is pushing bmw to go more mainstream with electrics but they are gritting their teeth in resistance, hoping and betting on tesla to fail at model 3. Will be interesting.
More fake news, the i3 sells like crazy in other markets. Some people have to wait months to get one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
the problem with the i3 is they made it very ugly. sure, this is an individual taste, but i have NEVER heard anyone say they like the way it looks. i've heard tons of people say its ugly. uglier than my smart car.
plus, they aren't willing to deal on the i3. when i was exploring leases, it was as much as a gas/diesel three series. no thanks.
You went to the wrong dealer(s). CPO's are an even better deal, I paid less than $18k for my EE i3, a carbon fibre car for less than $20k!

As for the looks, I love them. They can be ugly in the wrong color(s) and stock. Just a few easy mods go a long way (springs, spacers, tint, etc).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ORIGIN M. View Post
i3 has done quite well but is too expensive and no doubt too expensive for BMW to be able to build and profit from.
Yet they do profit from each and every one of them, google the Munro & Associates tear down of the car.

-----

Well thats as far as I could get without quoting every single post as wrong. {People} just chatting about something they have ABSOLUTELY no knowledge about.

This is why I do not frequent this type of car forum much anymore, just a bunch of keyboard cowboys shooting at the hip (or hands) about things they have no real knowledge on.

I have said it before and I will say it again, I get so tired of defending this car. Its amazing and if you can't see it then you obviously haven't experienced as I have. We have two and have had 3 (first one was a lease).



My leased REx
My CPO EE BEV (not lowered yet)

*heads back to the i3 FB group*
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      02-01-2018, 09:19 PM   #61
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I agree... if you paint it all black so you can't see it well, the i3 is less fugly.
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      02-02-2018, 10:43 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP View Post

As for the looks, I love them. They can be ugly in the wrong color(s) and stock. Just a few easy mods go a long way (springs, spacers, tint, etc).


Do you mind posting some pics of your i3?

I drove one when they first came out, and was surprised by how fun it was to drive. The looks of the car are starting to grow on me, but I agree that it looks really dorky in some colors, and there just doesn't seem to be much aftermarket support for it. I like to mod my cars, and it seems that with the i3 if you want to mod you go and buy the set of springs and the set of wheels and then youre out of options.
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      02-04-2018, 01:29 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chihuahua View Post
Do you mind posting some pics of your i3?

I drove one when they first came out, and was surprised by how fun it was to drive. The looks of the car are starting to grow on me, but I agree that it looks really dorky in some colors, and there just doesn't seem to be much aftermarket support for it. I like to mod my cars, and it seems that with the i3 if you want to mod you go and buy the set of springs and the set of wheels and then youre out of options.
Here is my CPO EE i3 BEV, I have not lowered it yet but tint, spacers and a few other cosmetic changes. Springs are coming soon, with 29k on the car I am contemplating doing shocks and springs so I can just change out assemblies and hold on to the 29k shocks until I am done with the car.



This was my Leased i3 REx, tinted, lowered, spacers, etc.



The face-lifted i3's look great if you can spring for a new one, and the i3S, wow, stunning IMO; tint it and done.

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      02-04-2018, 01:35 PM   #64
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PS: BMW i3 - 2nd best selling EV in all of Europe for 2017; BMW i3 - best selling BMW in Norway.
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      02-05-2018, 04:17 AM   #65
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The i3 is within the top five of best driving BMW's today.
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      02-05-2018, 07:44 AM   #66
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The i3 is within the top five of best driving BMW's today.
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