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      09-04-2020, 12:38 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chambo622 View Post
328iX and anyone else, how are you liking the H&R coilovers these days?

Still figuring out the best option for my wagon.
  • ST X - KW told me they don't really make a kit specifically for the wagon, so you can use 1322000R with spacers. I think it will be too low in the back.
  • KW V1 - 102200AB is made specifically for the wagon. However, I'm still wondering if it's too low for my tastes, and also concerned by some of the trouble reports
  • H&R - is this actually the best option? Stated lowering range is .80 - 1.75 in the front, .60 - 1.6 in the back, seems perfect for me. Around the same price as the KW V1.

328iX I saw you had part number 28895-4, but the website lists 28895-8 for the F31, I wonder if it's been updated?
I'm not sure if the part was updated. I was the first one to receive the kit and found flaws and worked with H&R to resolve them. They basically had the kit setup with RWD parts.

Yes the H&R range is probably the best, KW V1 and ST are the same thing.

I love them, not the most comfortable ride but it's not bad.
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      09-04-2020, 12:40 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 328iX View Post
I'm not sure if the part was updated. I believe I was the first one to receive the kit and found flaws and worked with H&R to resolve them.

Yes the H&R range is probably the best, KW V1 and ST are the same thing.

I love them, not the most comfortable ride but it's not bad.
Wow, so H&R's own website doesn't recommend the best kit for the car? That is...strange

Glad that you are enjoying them. When you say "not the most comfortable," are you comparing that to stock, to the prokit/SA combo you've run, or to other coilovers?
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      09-04-2020, 12:42 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chambo622 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 328iX View Post
I'm not sure if the part was updated. I believe I was the first one to receive the kit and found flaws and worked with H&R to resolve them.

Yes the H&R range is probably the best, KW V1 and ST are the same thing.

I love them, not the most comfortable ride but it's not bad.
Wow, so H&R's own website doesn't recommend the best kit for the car? That is...strange

Glad that you are enjoying them. When you say "not the most comfortable," are you comparing that to stock, to the prokit/SA combo you've run, or to other coilovers?
I updated my response sorry I was confused.

H&R made a kit that didn't work with the F31, it cost me $5000 in damages after installation. I pointed this out to them and appropriate changes were made.

So I'm not sure if that resulted in a part number change but it appears that it did as I believe I had the -4 kit

And yes, compared to SA/Eibach those were extremely comfortable and responsive.

H&R is on the stiff side for sure.
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      09-04-2020, 12:46 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 328iX View Post
I updated my response sorry I was confused.

H&R made a kit that didn't work with the F31, it cost me $5000 in damages after installation. I pointed this out to them and appropriate changes were made.

So I'm not sure if that resulted in a part number change but it appears that it did as I believe I had the -4 kit

And yes, compared to SA/Eibach those were extremely comfortable and responsive.

H&R is on the stiff side for sure.
Thanks for being a great source of info on suspension for these cars.

I keep going back between options, since there really doesn't seem to be a silver bullet. I'm worried that SA/Eibach won't be low enough to get the look I want but on the other hand, all of these coilovers have at least some pros and cons.

I sort of doubt we'll see any more options hitting the market so I'll have to make up my mind!
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      09-04-2020, 01:04 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chambo622 View Post
Thanks for being a great source of info on suspension for these cars.

I keep going back between options, since there really doesn't seem to be a silver bullet. I'm worried that SA/Eibach won't be low enough to get the look I want but on the other hand, all of these coilovers have at least some pros and cons.

I sort of doubt we'll see any more options hitting the market so I'll have to make up my mind!
Whatever you do i'd just go the coilover route.

I tried ACS and Koni/Eibach and the fit just never looked just right how I liked it.

It either had a reverse rake or was just barely level, to where I'd fill up my tank and it would be lower on the rear again, granted the ride was nice.

The stiffer ride with H&R gives me the impression of the car being more planted and connected but I understand some people just can't do stiff.
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      09-05-2020, 06:18 PM   #138
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Yes.
Part number has changed.
New number is, H&R 28895-8.
I have these sitting on my workbench waiting for installation.
Hope to install in the next two weeks. Will do the work myself.

Based on the information from 328ix and wanting the ability to adjust the ride hight, I went with this kit.

I do think of this kit as a semi adjustable suspension.
A true coilover gives you the ability to raise and lower from the shock body without changing spring tension.
With the H&R front strut you increase of decrease spring tension in order to raise or lower. The rear suspension design of the F3x cars does not allow for coilover operation as the shock and spring are separate items.
To a certain degree the rear spring can have some additional tension depending on how high you set the threaded spring adjusting collar.
But at this price point I think it is a fair compromise.
I paid $1,369.99.
I'll report back after installation with my thoughts.
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      09-05-2020, 06:21 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car 65 View Post
Yes.
Part number has changed.
New number is, H&R 28895-8.
I have these sitting on my workbench waiting for installation.
Hope to install in the next two weeks. Will do the work myself.

Based on the information from 328ix and wanting the ability to adjust the ride hight, I went with this kit.

I do think of this kit as a semi adjustable suspension.
A true coilover gives you the ability to raise and lower from the shock body without changing spring tension.
With the H&R front strut you increase of decrease spring tension in order to raise or lower. The rear suspension design of the F3x cars does not allow for coilover operation as the shock and spring are separate items.
To a certain degree the rear spring can have some additional tension depending on how high you set the threaded spring adjusting collar.
But at this price point I think it is a fair compromise.
I paid $1,369.99.
I'll report back after installation with my thoughts.
That's good to hear, best of luck with install it should be trouble free knowing you have the correct parts.

Be sure to update once you've driven with it.
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      09-06-2020, 12:06 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car 65 View Post
Yes.
Part number has changed.
New number is, H&R 28895-8.
I have these sitting on my workbench waiting for installation.
Hope to install in the next two weeks. Will do the work myself.
I have the damper dynos for this kit. LMK if you'd like them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Car 65 View Post
I do think of this kit as a semi adjustable suspension.
A true coilover gives you the ability to raise and lower from the shock body without changing spring tension.
With the H&R front strut you increase of decrease spring tension in order to raise or lower. The rear suspension design of the F3x cars does not allow for coilover operation as the shock and spring are separate items.
To a certain degree the rear spring can have some additional tension depending on how high you set the threaded spring adjusting collar.
But at this price point I think it is a fair compromise.
I paid $1,369.99.
I'll report back after installation with my thoughts.
I don't quite agree that the spring tension is increased/decreased when changing the ride height.

Ride height is dictated by how much the spring is compressed by the weight of the car. If you raise or lower the perch, the weight on the spring is the same, and thus the amount the spring compresses is the same, so there's no more or less tension on the spring.

The boundary cases where that isn't true is if the perch is raised/lowered so much that you run into the travel limit of some other part of the suspension. If you keep raising the ride height eventually the damper will reach full extension or the bushings will be providing enough counter force and prevent the height from raising any higher. This is equivalent to the suspension being at full droop. Raising beyond that would then be adding extra pre-load to the springs. On the other hand if you lower too much you eventually just sit on the bump stops, and/or hit the damper maximum compression (properly spec'd bump stops should prevent that).

In systems where the damper length is adjusted with ride height they typically do that so that the piston sits in the same position within the damper no matter what height is set. This ensures you have enough compression and extension stroke to not bottom/extend out the damper. With the dampers on our cars the suspension manufacturers recommend a height range to achieve the same thing.
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Last edited by FaRKle!; 09-06-2020 at 12:11 AM..
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      09-10-2020, 02:55 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car 65 View Post
Yes.
Part number has changed.
New number is, H&R 28895-8.
I have these sitting on my workbench waiting for installation.
Hope to install in the next two weeks. Will do the work myself.

Based on the information from 328ix and wanting the ability to adjust the ride hight, I went with this kit.
Nice dude, be sure to post up your install and ride quality thoughts... I'm considering these for my F31 as well. Sub'd
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      09-11-2020, 12:25 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesmeister View Post
Nice dude, be sure to post up your install and ride quality thoughts... I'm considering these for my F31 as well. Sub'd
Installation was straight forward.
Just minor difficulty dropping the front knuckle from the strut and aligning the rear lower knuckle bolts.
One thing to note, the front struts don't have an alinement post to slide into the knuckle slot. There is an arrow stamped into the strut body. Use that reference to the knuckle slot and the struts will be in proper position to attach the sway bar end link.
Quality of components is first rate. I set the ride hight at the highest setting to start. Also added 1/4 more to the rear with shims on top of the spring adjustment body. I don't want to change the rear hight that much from stock.
As of now the front still looks too high.
I have not driven the car at this time.
Will drive the car as is for some distance and see if things settle down lower.
Then I'll lower the front more if needed.
I'll report back after I have driven on various road surfaces.
I'm hoping for a more controlled and firmer ride.
Main goal of eliminating the 4x4 truck look has been accomplished.
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      09-21-2020, 06:37 PM   #143
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I have lowered the front to the lowest setting. The rear is at the highest setting.
Front is maybe 3/16" higher than rear of car. Ride is definitely more firm than stock suspension. Well within my tolerance range. Handling is better giving less movement in right, left, transitions. Turn in response is more crisp.
On my car the rear dropped an inch using the highest setting. H&R says it should only drop 5/8". I wish that was the case. The front had to be set with the full 1.5" drop to get me near the same wheel gap.
I would prefer the rear to be a 1/2" higher and the front 3/8" higher than what I ended up with.
The car now has a more proper balance with wheel gaps and looks like I want.
But I'm forced to be too low in front because the rear hight is maxed out.

I'll report back if I make further changes from here.
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      09-21-2020, 07:00 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car 65 View Post
I have lowered the front to the lowest setting. The rear is at the highest setting.
Front is maybe 3/16" higher than rear of car. Ride is definitely more firm than stock suspension. Well within my tolerance range. Handling is better giving less movement in right, left, transitions. Turn in response is more crisp.
On my car the rear dropped an inch using the highest setting. H&R says it should only drop 5/8". I wish that was the case. The front had to be set with the full 1.5" drop to get me near the same wheel gap.
I would prefer the rear to be a 1/2" higher and the front 3/8" higher than what I ended up with.
The car now has a more proper balance with wheel gaps and looks like I want.
But I'm forced to be too low in front because the rear hight is maxed out.

I'll report back if I make further changes from here.
The good thing about the rear height is that it's not very difficult to raise it up. If you're at the end of the adjustment collar for going up, you can make some shims/spacers to add length to the spring.
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      09-21-2020, 08:37 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
The good thing about the rear height is that it's not very difficult to raise it up. If you're at the end of the adjustment collar for going up, you can make some shims/spacers to add length to the spring.
Hi FaRKle,

Will I run the risk of topping out the rear shock absorber?
I already have 1/4" added between the upper car body/frame and adjustable collar.
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      09-21-2020, 10:41 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car 65 View Post
I have lowered the front to the lowest setting. The rear is at the highest setting.
Front is maybe 3/16" higher than rear of car. Ride is definitely more firm than stock suspension. Well within my tolerance range. Handling is better giving less movement in right, left, transitions. Turn in response is more crisp.
On my car the rear dropped an inch using the highest setting. H&R says it should only drop 5/8". I wish that was the case. The front had to be set with the full 1.5" drop to get me near the same wheel gap.
I would prefer the rear to be a 1/2" higher and the front 3/8" higher than what I ended up with.
The car now has a more proper balance with wheel gaps and looks like I want.
But I'm forced to be too low in front because the rear hight is maxed out.

I'll report back if I make further changes from here.
I'm surprised you couldn't get it to where you wanted with stock settings.

This is how my car sits on 18s
255/35/18 tires

4 threads left up front, unsure of the rear but I believe it's quite a lot. The rear is approx 1/4 of an inch higher for rake.
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      09-21-2020, 10:53 PM   #147
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Here are some larger images. The front may appear higher in some pics but it's just due to camera/the parking spot.
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      09-21-2020, 11:36 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car 65 View Post
Hi FaRKle,

Will I run the risk of topping out the rear shock absorber?
I already have 1/4" added between the upper car body/frame and adjustable collar.
When the car was in the air when you were installing the rear shocks was the length of the damper limiting the amount of droop, or was it the tension in the rear control arm bushings? If the wheel carrier didn't drop any further when you unbolted the damper, then the bushings are the limiter, so the damper never reaches full extension on the car.

If the damper length is what limits droop, then it's possible to reach max extension, but then you'll realize that the wheel would have to extend down the same amount as when the car is in the air for the parts to make contact (and they sometimes have internal bumpers to allow that and prevent damage). For "normal" driving, I'd say that's pretty rare.

From what I've seen B6 dampers and OE dampers aren't the droop limiters in the rear for our cars, but the B8/B14/B16 come really close and can be the droop limiter (by ~1/3").
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      09-22-2020, 08:49 AM   #149
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alright folks, B14 kit has arrived, very excited....just waiting for the tools to come.
Question on removing them - how come FaRKle! and even Kies motorsport, when they remove the shock, remove it with the top mount in place still.

why not just loosen it off whilst it's still bolted to car? using a jack on the axle to change height?
instead of taking the whole thing out then having to use spring compressor to remove?

i've watched both kies and Farkle's vids carefully so i'll be following them step by step -
but just wondering why that can't be done instead - what am i missing?

EDIT: the other thing i've been wondering about watching the vids is - how do you know that you've reorientated the top mount onto the damper correctly before putting it back in the car? as it spins around and locks in place when you tighten the bolt..... or do you just have to make sure visually that it's aligned before tightening?

Last edited by gippy; 09-22-2020 at 10:05 AM..
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      09-22-2020, 12:36 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gippy View Post
alright folks, B14 kit has arrived, very excited....just waiting for the tools to come.
Question on removing them - how come FaRKle! and even Kies motorsport, when they remove the shock, remove it with the top mount in place still.

why not just loosen it off whilst it's still bolted to car? using a jack on the axle to change height?
instead of taking the whole thing out then having to use spring compressor to remove?

i've watched both kies and Farkle's vids carefully so i'll be following them step by step -
but just wondering why that can't be done instead - what am i missing?

EDIT: the other thing i've been wondering about watching the vids is - how do you know that you've reorientated the top mount onto the damper correctly before putting it back in the car? as it spins around and locks in place when you tighten the bolt..... or do you just have to make sure visually that it's aligned before tightening?
It can be difficult pulling the strut out of the knuckle. I like letting the knuckle drop off of the strut. Also, depending on the length of the strut/spring you might not be able to get the strut/spring out of the wheel well if you leave the top mount bolted to the car and just drop the strut (this is more of an issue for xDrive than RWD). For B14s you can probably leave the top mount in the shock tower, but for stuff more similar to OE lengths, they're frequently too long.

There's no "orienting the top mount onto the strut." The damper piston shaft (or damper body) can freely rotate, so you can secure the top mount to the strut any way, and then once fastened, just spin the top mount to the orientation it needs to be in to align with the shock tower.
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      09-22-2020, 06:12 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 328iX View Post
I'm surprised you couldn't get it to where you wanted with stock settings.

This is how my car sits on 18s
255/35/18 tires

4 threads left up front, unsure of the rear but I believe it's quite a lot. The rear is approx 1/4 of an inch higher for rake.
Hi 328iX,

Thank you for responding.
Your car looks fantastic.
I'm surprised the rear is not coming up as high as I would like.
The front is very adjustable.

Below I will reply to FaRKle and will talk about what I did today to maybe solve the issue.
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      09-22-2020, 06:25 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
It can be difficult pulling the strut out of the knuckle. I like letting the knuckle drop off of the strut. Also, depending on the length of the strut/spring you might not be able to get the strut/spring out of the wheel well if you leave the top mount bolted to the car and just drop the strut (this is more of an issue for xDrive than RWD). For B14s you can probably leave the top mount in the shock tower, but for stuff more similar to OE lengths, they're frequently too long.

There's no "orienting the top mount onto the strut." The damper piston shaft (or damper body) can freely rotate, so you can secure the top mount to the strut any way, and then once fastened, just spin the top mount to the orientation it needs to be in to align with the shock tower.
Hi FaRKle,

Today I added another 1/4" spacer, now 1/2" total, to the top portion of the rear spring adjustment system.
I am tightening the lower control arm with first compressing the spring.
Spring is now under a fair amount of compression. My new concern is coil binding of the rear spring.
When I lowered the car and moved forward and back enough to properly position the tire and suspension, I measured 14" fender to center cap.
The wheel gap is exactly what I want on the rear.
I do need to drive the car to ensure the 14" measurement remains.
If it does I can raise the front 1/4" to 3/8".
I will report back no later than Saturday.

I really appreciate you and 328iX helping me with this issue.
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      09-23-2020, 01:21 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car 65 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
It can be difficult pulling the strut out of the knuckle. I like letting the knuckle drop off of the strut. Also, depending on the length of the strut/spring you might not be able to get the strut/spring out of the wheel well if you leave the top mount bolted to the car and just drop the strut (this is more of an issue for xDrive than RWD). For B14s you can probably leave the top mount in the shock tower, but for stuff more similar to OE lengths, they're frequently too long.

There's no "orienting the top mount onto the strut." The damper piston shaft (or damper body) can freely rotate, so you can secure the top mount to the strut any way, and then once fastened, just spin the top mount to the orientation it needs to be in to align with the shock tower.
Hi FaRKle,

Today I added another 1/4" spacer, now 1/2" total, to the top portion of the rear spring adjustment system.
I am tightening the lower control arm with first compressing the spring.
Spring is now under a fair amount of compression. My new concern is coil binding of the rear spring.
When I lowered the car and moved forward and back enough to properly position the tire and suspension, I measured 14" fender to center cap.
The wheel gap is exactly what I want on the rear.
I do need to drive the car to ensure the 14" measurement remains.
If it does I can raise the front 1/4" to 3/8".
I will report back no later than Saturday.

I really appreciate you and 328iX helping me with this issue.
It's extremely hard for me to adjust the rear due to the tension. Even with Boeshield T-9 thoroughly applied.

Thankfully the fronts can be done by hand once the collar is unlocked.

I only get coil bind up front as the clear sleeve on the driver side only likes to work it's way down overtime.

I'm thinking of buying an upgraded isolator off ECS or if anyone else has ideas.
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      09-23-2020, 03:44 PM   #154
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I drove the car today and made a point of crossing many speed humps.
The suspension settled a little bit.
Presently 13 3/4" right and left front.
13 7/8" left rear, 13 15/16" right rear.
I'm going to leave it as is for a months use, then measure again.
If I still have the same numbers I'll have an alignment done.
Very pleased with the appearance and ride quality. No more sky high front end.
The front setting would not work well in the snow.
But the last time we had snow where I live was 1961.
If I'm heading to snow country the front can be raised.
That is a definite benefit of this H&R package.
As 328iX has stated, the front is very easy to adjust.
The rear not so much.
I'll report back in a month or so.
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