F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > 2012-2019 BMW 3 and 4-Series Forums > General F30 Sedan / F32 Coupe / F36 Gran Coupe Forum > car feels quicker in sport vs sport+?
GetBMWParts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-28-2021, 03:14 PM   #23
HighlandPete
Lieutenant General
4688
Rep
13,124
Posts

Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
Definitely limiting power!!
Are you sure it won't override before, or near WOT?

I know cars I've driven with ECO PRO will override without a kickdown. For me, it's similar to using LIM, you do need to get near to WOT to override. If you are not precise with application, easy to give it a kickdown and surprise yourself.
Appreciate 0
      04-28-2021, 03:57 PM   #24
Skyhigh
Colonel
Skyhigh's Avatar
957
Rep
2,312
Posts

Drives: BMW F36
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Pretty sure...
Kick down is the "safety feature". Below that, it is very "eco". I'd say, buttdyno, power delivery as a 120 PS engine.
__________________
"Large increases in cost with questionable increases in performance can be tolerated only in cars and women."
Appreciate 0
      04-28-2021, 04:35 PM   #25
thejeremyman9
Brigadier General
thejeremyman9's Avatar
2092
Rep
4,085
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Cali

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
Pretty sure...
Kick down is the "safety feature". Below that, it is very "eco". I'd say, buttdyno, power delivery as a 120 PS engine.
Are you saying that eco pro mode physically limits the engine to produce less power at WOT? I'm fairly certain that is not accurate. AFAIK all modes produce the same power at WOT, its just the boost/load maps, commanded throttle position, shift points, etc, that change relative to accelerator pedal position. I am confident for comfort vs sport vs sport+. I would have to test myself to confirm in eco, but everything i have ever seen indicates the maximum power the engine can produce is available in all modes, albeit at different accelerator pedal positions, with ECO requiring the highest pedal input and sport+ requiring the least.

I'd like to know what evidence you have eco pro limits engine power output at WOT compared to other modes.
Appreciate 0
      04-28-2021, 09:18 PM   #26
Wires
Brigadier General
Canada
821
Rep
3,152
Posts

Drives: 2016 340i xDrive
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (0)

I'm not buying the limiting power portion. I played a bit today, and eco pro wants to push my to 7th gear on city streets that I'd drive in 5th, so yes, it "feels" like it has no power, but really it's just in the wrong gear.

When I pulled onto the highway, doing 60MPH, in Manual 4th, I pinned it in eco pro (boost gauge it around 18PSI). Slowed, popped into sport and got about 18PSI again (which would mean identical power).

Now in 1st or 2nd gear, maybe it pulls power more, I cannot comment. It's tough to test with BM3 stage 2 since the speedo rockets up too fast.
Appreciate 0
      04-29-2021, 01:11 AM   #27
thejeremyman9
Brigadier General
thejeremyman9's Avatar
2092
Rep
4,085
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Cali

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
I'm not buying the limiting power portion. I played a bit today, and eco pro wants to push my to 7th gear on city streets that I'd drive in 5th, so yes, it "feels" like it has no power, but really it's just in the wrong gear.

When I pulled onto the highway, doing 60MPH, in Manual 4th, I pinned it in eco pro (boost gauge it around 18PSI). Slowed, popped into sport and got about 18PSI again (which would mean identical power).

Now in 1st or 2nd gear, maybe it pulls power more, I cannot comment. It's tough to test with BM3 stage 2 since the speedo rockets up too fast.
I just need to datalog it to confirm, or something else can. If the load target is the same, its confirmed.
Appreciate 0
      04-29-2021, 02:37 AM   #28
Skyhigh
Colonel
Skyhigh's Avatar
957
Rep
2,312
Posts

Drives: BMW F36
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
I'm not buying the limiting power portion. ....
so yes, it "feels" like it has no power, but really it's just in the wrong gear."
Please read the above extract of your own post and think about it a few times The answer is there....

(Spoiler: If it is in the "wrong" gear - it does not have its full power..... Same thing)

All I am saying is that you will NOT get the full power output of the engine in EcoPro, no matter what you do, unless you press kick-down. How this is achieved - whether through a high gear, reverse curve mapping or both - that's another topic.

Proof - try it yourself. It is pretty obvious. I will also test it again at WOT (no kick-down) next time to confirm, but I am quite confident it is limited.
__________________
"Large increases in cost with questionable increases in performance can be tolerated only in cars and women."
Appreciate 0
      04-29-2021, 07:31 AM   #29
Wires
Brigadier General
Canada
821
Rep
3,152
Posts

Drives: 2016 340i xDrive
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
(Spoiler: If it is in the "wrong" gear - it does not have its full power..... Same thing)
You get full power, you have poor acceleration due to the incorrect gear. I know what you are saying, but technically the power is identical, but driving experience is suffering.
Appreciate 0
      04-29-2021, 07:32 AM   #30
Skyhigh
Colonel
Skyhigh's Avatar
957
Rep
2,312
Posts

Drives: BMW F36
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wires View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
(Spoiler: If it is in the "wrong" gear - it does not have its full power..... Same thing)
You get full power, you have poor acceleration due to the incorrect gear. I know what you are saying, but technically the power is identical, but driving experience is suffering.
So you are saying the engine is outputting the same power at 2000 and 6000rpm? 😉
__________________
"Large increases in cost with questionable increases in performance can be tolerated only in cars and women."
Appreciate 0
      04-29-2021, 07:32 AM   #31
Wires
Brigadier General
Canada
821
Rep
3,152
Posts

Drives: 2016 340i xDrive
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
I just need to datalog it to confirm, or something else can. If the load target is the same, its confirmed.
This is literally the 3rd time I've clicked it into that mode in the 5 years of owning the car, so to me, it really doesn't matter.

It was more of looking for that "easter egg".
Appreciate 0
      04-29-2021, 07:35 AM   #32
Wires
Brigadier General
Canada
821
Rep
3,152
Posts

Drives: 2016 340i xDrive
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
So you are saying the engine is outputting the same power at 2000 and 6000rpm? 😉
Nope, but if you are in sport+ at 2k I'm willing to get that you have identical power delivery as in eco-pro. You got to keep an apples to apples comparison.
Appreciate 0
      04-29-2021, 07:44 AM   #33
Skyhigh
Colonel
Skyhigh's Avatar
957
Rep
2,312
Posts

Drives: BMW F36
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Well apples become bananas as soon as you press the throttle and, unlike Sport+, EcoPro prevents you from going up to 5000 RPM (both through upshifting and a reversed mapping curve of the throttle)....!
(again, the exception being kickdown).

So you are effectively driving a less powerful car Meaning the end-result is that you don't get full power... And that's exactly what I have been saying

What you are saying is that if hypothetically EcoPro would allow you to go to higher RPMs you would get the same power. True. But it doesn't. So you don't. Full stop.
__________________
"Large increases in cost with questionable increases in performance can be tolerated only in cars and women."
Appreciate 1
      04-29-2021, 09:19 AM   #34
HighlandPete
Lieutenant General
4688
Rep
13,124
Posts

Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
Well apples become bananas as soon as you press the throttle and, unlike Sport+, EcoPro prevents you from going up to 5000 RPM (both through upshifting and a reversed mapping curve of the throttle)....!
(again, the exception being kickdown).

So you are effectively driving a less powerful car Meaning the end-result is that you don't get full power... And that's exactly what I have been saying

What you are saying is that if hypothetically EcoPro would allow you to go to higher RPMs you would get the same power. True. But it doesn't. So you don't. Full stop.
Are you saying it won't allow a down change in ECO PRO? You press the throttle to near WOT and it simply holds the higher gears?

If so, then surely kickdown is what is required, to get you where you'd be in comparison to the Sport modes, for a given road speed.

As I see it, there may be a slight delay as the turbo would need to spool, to be where the Sport mode rpm would already be. Gears would then be running in parallel, whichever mode for maximum acceleration. Make sense?
Appreciate 0
      04-29-2021, 10:31 AM   #35
auburnf30x
First Lieutenant
auburnf30x's Avatar
191
Rep
323
Posts

Drives: 2017 BMW 330i xDrive
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Auburn, AL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I've only turned EcoPro on once or twice...and immediately turned it off...

I know what it's supposed to do, but don't know how that mode is supposed to help it go about doing it. The engine bogs down under load at a low rpm and I feel like I have the depress the pedal much more to get it going than I otherwise would in Comfort mode. And that 'bogging' transmits a lot of drone and extra vibration into the cabin.

Not a pleasant mode to drive in for me...but again, I've only tried it a couple of times.
__________________
2017 330i xDrive Imperial Blue Exterior / Venetian Beige Leather with Oyster Accent Interior / Anthracite Wood Trim

Appreciate 0
      04-29-2021, 11:18 AM   #36
Skyhigh
Colonel
Skyhigh's Avatar
957
Rep
2,312
Posts

Drives: BMW F36
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Can't confirm the above. EcoPro is simply for long-haul cruising where you maintain more or less the same speed, you want to drive comfortably, you don't need or want to accelerate heavily.
You get the coasting feature which you get in no other mode. The RPMs are maintained very low, so that there is minimum engine noise. Fuel economy increases.

I like it. Every mode in this car has its purpose and I love that.
__________________
"Large increases in cost with questionable increases in performance can be tolerated only in cars and women."
Appreciate 0
      04-29-2021, 11:36 AM   #37
auburnf30x
First Lieutenant
auburnf30x's Avatar
191
Rep
323
Posts

Drives: 2017 BMW 330i xDrive
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Auburn, AL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
Can't confirm the above. EcoPro is simply for long-haul cruising where you maintain more or less the same speed, you want to drive comfortably, you don't need or want to accelerate heavily.
You get the coasting feature which you get in no other mode. The RPMs are maintained very low, so that there is minimum engine noise. Fuel economy increases.

I like it. Every mode in this car has its purpose and I love that.
I haven't tried it in this way. Only times I've tried it were sitting at a red light and flipping it on to see what it does. Then taking off, I noticed the sluggish response, transmission shifting at and holding rpms too low, etc. Didn't like it.

I'll try switching it on once I'm on the freeway and seeing what it does on my way home from work, if I remember.
__________________
2017 330i xDrive Imperial Blue Exterior / Venetian Beige Leather with Oyster Accent Interior / Anthracite Wood Trim

Appreciate 0
      04-29-2021, 12:17 PM   #38
CajunBMW
Major
CajunBMW's Avatar
United_States
932
Rep
1,146
Posts

Drives: BMW 340i and X1, Chrysler Van
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Shreveport, LA

iTrader: (0)

I agree with the above points. But as I mentioned I found it most useful for us when I was teaching my teen to drive. Because of the reduced response, she did not have to worry so much about the pedal feel during the early parts of our driving lessons.

I will add on long haul highways in Louisiana and Texas at 80-85+ mph I found no savings in eco vs comfort, at least as measured by the bmw mpg values in idrive. I do note a bit better mpg at lower speeds on local highways.
Appreciate 0
      04-29-2021, 12:46 PM   #39
Skyhigh
Colonel
Skyhigh's Avatar
957
Rep
2,312
Posts

Drives: BMW F36
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by auburnf30x View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
Can't confirm the above. EcoPro is simply for long-haul cruising where you maintain more or less the same speed, you want to drive comfortably, you don't need or want to accelerate heavily.
You get the coasting feature which you get in no other mode. The RPMs are maintained very low, so that there is minimum engine noise. Fuel economy increases.

I like it. Every mode in this car has its purpose and I love that.
I haven't tried it in this way. Only times I've tried it were sitting at a red light and flipping it on to see what it does. Then taking off, I noticed the sluggish response, transmission shifting at and holding rpms too low, etc. Didn't like it.

I'll try switching it on once I'm on the freeway and seeing what it does on my way home from work, if I remember.
That's one certain way to find it hideous Been there
Try it whenever all you do is just cruise and you are not in the mood to or simply cannot drive sporty. That's where it shines and fulfils it's purpose. For me lately that's 20%-30% of the cases as this is not a daily car.
__________________
"Large increases in cost with questionable increases in performance can be tolerated only in cars and women."
Appreciate 0
      04-29-2021, 09:05 PM   #40
auburnf30x
First Lieutenant
auburnf30x's Avatar
191
Rep
323
Posts

Drives: 2017 BMW 330i xDrive
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Auburn, AL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
That's one certain way to find it hideous Been there
Try it whenever all you do is just cruise and you are not in the mood to or simply cannot drive sporty. That's where it shines and fulfils it's purpose. For me lately that's 20%-30% of the cases as this is not a daily car.
I tried it once I reached cruising speed on the highway...now I get it. Not that it had a problem before, but the freewheeling feature makes it feel effortless at times. And overall smoother with fewer throttle stabs thanks to the coasting.

Of course, slow to a stop and the above complaints become evident again. But, for maintaining speed I liked the way it operated. I think Iíll try it out again on the next long haul.

Thanks for explaining it, I thought it was the most absolute backwards feature for driving around town!
__________________
2017 330i xDrive Imperial Blue Exterior / Venetian Beige Leather with Oyster Accent Interior / Anthracite Wood Trim

Appreciate 1
Skyhigh956.50
      04-29-2021, 10:51 PM   #41
Icarium81
Second Lieutenant
Canada
101
Rep
278
Posts

Drives: 2018, 330i xdrive
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Nova Scotia

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
Well apples become bananas as soon as you press the throttle and, unlike Sport+, EcoPro prevents you from going up to 5000 RPM (both through upshifting and a reversed mapping curve of the throttle)....!
(again, the exception being kickdown).

So you are effectively driving a less powerful car Meaning the end-result is that you don't get full power... And that's exactly what I have been saying

What you are saying is that if hypothetically EcoPro would allow you to go to higher RPMs you would get the same power. True. But it doesn't. So you don't. Full stop.

What he's saying though is that the engine is producing the same power all the time regardless of mode selected. The rest or the car is just intentionally using that available power pisspoor for performance.
YES the difference in response is due to all the things affected by eco mode vs the others.

AFAIK the only models that give different horsepower, are some of the older M5 models, never driven one, just watched a lot of top gear and IIRC, regular modes are 400ish hp, push the M button, and it turns it up to 505ish.
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2021, 07:40 AM   #42
Desertnate
Captain
United_States
307
Rep
693
Posts

Drives: BMW 435i
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Swansea, IL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW 435i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunBMW View Post
I will add on long haul highways in Louisiana and Texas at 80-85+ mph I found no savings in eco vs comfort, at least as measured by the bmw mpg values in idrive. I do note a bit better mpg at lower speeds on local highways.
This has been my experience too when bombing across the mid-west US. At any speeds above about 75, it provides no value when checking my gas mileage by hand not OBC/display. In the summer not only does it not save you any fuel at those speeds, but it also lowers the performance of the A/C and won't keep the car cool.

I do use it on a flat and straight portion of highway to my daughter's college. Speeds along a 1.5 hour stretch of the road stay around 70~75mph due to traffic and a heavy Highway Patrol presence. The best approach is just to set the cruise control at 75, drop the car into eco-pro (when it isn't really hot and sunny), and just glide along.
__________________
Stop by and check out my blog: The Car Geek
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2021, 11:30 AM   #43
TommyG-inFlaNow
Captain
TommyG-inFlaNow's Avatar
861
Rep
650
Posts

Drives: 2015 435 Vert Alpine White
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Bradenton FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhigh View Post
That's not true at all!
There are a number of differences between Sport and Sport+, at least for 40i / FCI. Sport+ there is more aggressive.

This is for the older generation:


There was another table for the 40i/FCI, I believe in German, which I can't find right now. It was visible there that Sport+ has more aggressive throttle response in addition to the above.

What I have noticed which is inconsistent with the above is that manual shifting for me feels definitely slower than DS. In any mode....
Thank you, I have always wondered about this but never taken the time to look or ask
Appreciate 1
Skyhigh956.50
      05-04-2021, 05:05 PM   #44
jmg
Lieutenant General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
10680
Rep
10,939
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 CS, i3 LCI, VW Atlas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desertnate View Post
I'm surprised you leave the throttle in comfort mode and are happy with it.

I've found the throttle response to me far better in sport mode and it really makes the car more responsive and accelerates quicker due to needing less pedal input for the same level of acceleration. I've noticed loosing 1~2 seconds on an autocross course simply because I left it in comfort and not Sport/Sport +

I'd do my daily commute most days in comfort because there are no opportunities to enjoy the benefits sport/sport+ offer, but when I do go into those modes I want the car to be fully alert. Comfort is rather sleepy...like I am when I drive to work.

It depends on the driver and what they are comfortable with. I autocross and track as well, but in my M3, I don't put it in sport+ simply because I run DSC completely off and the rear tires can break loose even in 2nd gear. I prefer the linear nature of the less aggressive throttle mapping to allow for more precise control. It also allows me to steer with the throttle much easier.

Also, consider this: A BMW team racer recommended to track the F80 in comfort mode for the same reason! I'm sure a tuned F30 would be similar.
__________________
2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic | MPE | MPHAS | GC Camber Plates | PFC-08 | RE-71R
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
2021.5 VW Atlas 3.6L V6 SEL 4Motion
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:50 PM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST