04-30-2013, 04:16 PM | #1 |
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Just another perspective: my 335i M-sport 6MT
After going on a 8 year hiatus from BMW (previous BMW was a 540i M-sport 6 MT), I was more "pushed" into making a decision on getting into a fun, commuter car to replace my aging and (becoming) problematic Range Rover.
Let me preface: I've only had my new 2013 335i for 5 days (total of 400 miles) and have these main points, from my perspective. Not intended to be a thorough review, but might help future buyers. It might come across as nit-picky but BMW should be flattered that I am comparing it to another BMW. Please don't flame. I chose the 335i because I am somewhat of a fan boy of BMWs, was notably fond of my 540i, felt the 335i is the closest thing to a modern day E39 (albeit without the same engine), and absolutely wanted a MT -- the only closest thing on my purchase radar was an S4 but I felt the S4 was not as muscular looking. Interior: **Material: for the most part, good -to- very good quality material. I have the aluminum hexagonal with black accent and think it is good quality. The black length-wise cosmetic strip on the doors is total cheap crap. **iDrive is pretty good and hits expectations since I have never had iDrive before now. There are some features that do not make it the most intuitive but it is a totally acceptable product. For example, if you set your music to play "random" but you decide to find and play a specific song during your drive, iDrive wipes out your last setting to randomize your music playback. This is annoying unless, of course, I do not know how to work this feature. **M-Sport Steering wheel: I actually feel that, depending on the yaw and pitch, it obstructs some important read-outs on the dash. Also, wish there were song forward/back-rewind buttons on the steering wheel. If I want to skip to the next song in my iPod, I have to reach to the center stack. Just something to get used to. **M-Sport seats: This surprised me as I definitely do not remember my test drive M-Sport seats being this "tight". I adjusted the side bolster of the seats but still feel they kind of dig into my lats (I'm not a particularly large guy but athletically built). In its widest/comfortable setting, it is not unbearable, just something to get used to. **HK sound system is awesome. **Legroom: the product design/packaging of back seat legroom is quite impressive for its class. The S4 seemed a lot tighter/smaller. **Noticeable squeaks/buzzing/rattles: with the music off, the only noticeable buzzing I am hearing is from the front right door; very intermittent and unpredictable. Exterior: Not much to talk about here. It is just fine with me. Fit and finish looks good. Definitely considering cosmetic upgrades such as the M Performance Aerodynamic pack and 19" HREs. Really like my xenon daytime rings. I do not stoop on the fact that the 2013 tail lights are not LED, but do feel they should just be standard these days from Day 1. Not a deal breaker. Engine Performance / Suspension: **Engine performance: this is an area of focus for me. Understand that my frame of reference was test driving a 335i Auto M-Sport and my previous BMW being a 540i M-sport 6MT. With that preface, it is my opinion that you really have to wring this car's neck to mask somewhat evident turbo lag. I definitely did not experience turbo lag in the test drive with a sport automatic; the power band seemed much more immediate and just "there". Maybe it is my fault for expecting same power delivery “feel” with a manual transmission. My nitpick is the observed power delivery with the turbo 6. Maybe if I came from a non-turbo inline 6, I would be super impressed. Again, if I were to sum it up: I am of the opinion that one has to wring this engine's neck when using a manual transmission. Once the RPM is in the right position in the power band, I get nostalgic with the gobs of power I remember from my old 540i. **Suspension: it is soft but acceptable. I will most likely upgrade to the M Performance Suspension. Most notably, when driving over road/surface defects, either my tires are losing grip or I experience a micro blip-loss in power delivery. It's almost analogous with someone bumping a turntable and having the tone-arm skip a beat on the record. Not sure what to think of this but it is definitely there. **Steering: there's no way around the topic; it is tactilely numb on center and just off center. It is even more apparent when cornering hard because I expect to feel road imperfections to travel up through the steering column a lot more than I do with this vehicle. In closing, even though it seems like I bashed this car, it is fun especially given my purchase objective. I am not disappointed with the product or purchase, especially given the competition. Just a little let down coming from the E39; I felt that the entire package just worked as an enthusiast’s vehicle. Yes yes, I totally get that they are two different engines and thus two different animals. I will not be getting rid of the 335i anytime soon. Just strongly considering M Performance parts upgrades to see if it adds that extra fondness. Last edited by itwasepic; 04-30-2013 at 10:06 PM.. |
04-30-2013, 04:57 PM | #2 | |
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Oh and you also get a can of AMAZING power as a side benefit
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04-30-2013, 05:02 PM | #3 |
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I felt that way too, I thought the door panel strips should be the same gloss finish as the dash. If you look at the 3GT, it is, whatever the dash trim is is carried onto the doors. I just need confirmation that they are compatible as it will be an easy swap if so.
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04-30-2013, 05:11 PM | #4 |
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04-30-2013, 05:14 PM | #5 |
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Pretty much on point with my thoughts. Like you, I really would like to see the top of my speedo and tach occationally.
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04-30-2013, 05:19 PM | #6 |
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What's interesting to me is that I'm surprised at the little amount of turbo lag I feel. Especially coming from the S54 engine I thought I'd notice more.
However, having had a '90 Turbo Eclipse maybe gave me a baseline feel of lag--because that car did lag. The new twin scroll is far more advanced. Agree on the suspension, I'm considering the M-Performance upgrade. But the regular Sport is not too shabby as it is.
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04-30-2013, 05:26 PM | #7 |
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Sounds like maybe you're hitting the traction control over rough pavement?
I've hardly driven ANY cars where I like the steering wheel placement and gauge readability. On my E36 M3 and my Z3M, the gauges are perfectly visible, but the wheel does not tilt, and is way higher than I'd like. Most cars, when the wheel is the right height, the gauges are very obscured. Quite annoying. |
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04-30-2013, 06:17 PM | #8 |
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It makes good torque with either transmission but I've always felt the same. My E90 335i and 135i have both been 6MT's. I know they're making good power etc, but I'm always curious when I drive friend's cars or loaner cars and feel the automatic transmissions feel a better match to power delivery. It's not a shocking revelation given the nature of turbos, but nonetheless I share your opinion.
I think your review is pretty fair, enjoy the car!
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04-30-2013, 06:27 PM | #9 |
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yes tightens up the Comfort Mode, and really makes the Sport mode nice and heavy...Comfort mode becomes E90 steering essentially (IMO).
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04-30-2013, 07:41 PM | #10 |
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Nice review, a great objective read, glad to hear you're happy with your choice. Curious to see your F30 on HRE's, I really want to get some of these wheels but am gonna have to save up some $$$...
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04-30-2013, 07:44 PM | #11 |
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I'll second that, and I don't notice ANY turbo lag with the MPPK installed.
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04-30-2013, 07:50 PM | #12 |
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How is it possible for a tune to remove turbo lag? Seems like unless you change the physical hardware like an intake, exhaust or the turbo itself, you can't change the physics? My understanding for FI motors is most stage 1 tunes simply trick the ECU by changing the reported boost and preventing the wastegate from opening?
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05-01-2013, 08:22 AM | #13 | |
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Changing the intake or exhaust doesn't eliminate lag, as it's all about how quickly the turbo spins up and starts producing boost. By closing the wastegate sooner, the turbo (or turbos) start producing boost at a lower rpm and there is no perceived waiting time for the boost to take effect. Also, FYI the ProCede piggyback allowed modification of wastegate settings to eliminate lag caused by a BMW software update designed to fix HPFP issues.
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05-01-2013, 08:37 AM | #14 | ||
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I'm no expert in engines and have a lot to learn, but I fail to understand how a tune can change the ability to produce boost when accelerating from 1-2k RPM or whatever the OP perceives as turbo lag. Make no mistake, I'm not attacking the N55 or saying that it suffers from lag, I just don't understand how a chip can change the exhaust dynamics needed to create boost in the first place.
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05-01-2013, 09:22 AM | #15 | |
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Take, for example, the first Porsche 930 turbo models - they had a significant amount of turbo lag because there was very little in the way of boost control. Everything was mechanical, and essentially used linkages and springs to control the amount of exhaust flow into the turbo, and some relatively (compared to today) primitive blow-off valves to keep the turbo from "stalling" when the throttle was closed. They also were using a relatively large turbo to produce power on the top end, rather than what we see on today's computer-controlled setups. Ignition-wise, all they had was pressure-retard to pull back the timing to prevent detonation, sometimes helped by adding water- or alcohol injection. Today, we have engine-management fed by multiple sensors that adjust the fuel mixture, frequency of spraying by the direct injectors, ignition timing, and when and how far the wastegates open and close. There are no "chips" any more - software is no longer on a swappable EPROM device, as there's more to it than there was back in say, the 1990s. That said, I agree that things like the BMS stage 1 for the N55 won't eliminate turbo lag - but a more sophisticated DME software update can and in fact has removed any perceptible lag in power delivery from the 2012-2013 iteration of the N55 engine. Any perceived lag could be something else causing the DME to pull back the power - traction control, for example, or sensing another condition that would warrant holding back the power, like a malfunctioning cooling fan for instance. Eliminating lag is all about getting the turbo producing boost at the lowest possible RPM, and eliminating restrictions doesn't really have that much effect until revs get well beyond the 1-2K range, where it is seen at higher/peak boost levels. Does that clear things up a bit?
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05-01-2013, 09:45 AM | #16 | ||
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As I understand, this is new ECU and air intake + software. There must be additional SW updates to the electric steering to get any change there. Is there any way to get just the steering SW tweaks? That's my biggest complaint about the car. |
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05-01-2013, 10:03 AM | #17 | |
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My uneducated understanding was that the wastegate/blowoff valve function to (a) protect the engine from overboosting at high RPM; (b) relieve boost after up-shifting; (c) remove boost when downshifting to engine brake. My fundamental question though still remains: (1) Why would the wastegate setting, at the 1-2k end where lag would be most perceived, be set to open up and reduce boost? You are saying this is due to emissions? But at higher RPM's the ECU allows for more boost? If this is the case, then it makes sense that an ECU software change (by whatever means) could reduce turbo lag. My perception has always been that the N55 has such little lag due to the engineering behind the twin-scroll turbo, and not necessarily the feedback control systems in the engine ECU which actuate the waste gate. I understand that the "perceived lag" that the OP experiences could be due to other factors such as the ESP program limiting throttle input. Your point "something else causing the DME to pull back the power" seems to be desirable regardless of tune or not. Another interesting question is whether or not an AT will remove turbo lag by maintaining higher engine RPM's through TCU software and the physics of the torque converter, while a MT is more likely to experience it due to rev-matching a downshift, 6-3 for example. Edit - read an interesting wikipedia page here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antilag_system Appears that one way to reduce lag with the ECU software is to retard ignition timing at low RPM to increase the temperature of the exhaust and thus increase pressure. But it's mentioned that this can be bad for the engine and turbo. The other methods presented involve adding piping or other physical modifications apparently first introduced in F1.
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05-01-2013, 10:05 AM | #18 |
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I question the steering feel upgrade with the PPK. Must be coming from another free update. I don't see the steering feel change advertised anywhere in BMW PPK docs.
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05-01-2013, 10:13 AM | #19 |
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Whoever orders the MPPK from the dealer, schedule it with a loaner and do not give the loaner back until the install is fininshed. For the love of god my car has been at dealer since last Wednesday.
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05-01-2013, 10:13 AM | #20 |
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Slightly OT but can you code or can BMW code the steering to always be in Sport Mode even when in comfort mode? (Obviously, without variable steering)
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05-01-2013, 10:36 AM | #21 | |
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The blowoff/diverter valve (in the intake tract) is used to prevent turbine stall when the throttle closes so that pressurized air is vented to the atmosphere (blowoff valve, usually in racing applications) or back into the pre-compressor intake tract (diverter valve, which our engines have). Now, to your point, a twin-scroll turbo (with two turbine scrolls and one compressor) will get some advantage over a single-intake scroll model, in that you have two exhaust streams (albeit from less cylinders) providing heat/pressure to drive the compressor. I can't really speak to the physics behind that, but it appears to be more efficient - the two turbines apparently getting the compressor up to speed with less engine rpm than a single. Also, turbine/compressor sizing can make a difference as well, plus we're also dealing with component weights, turbine blade shapes, and then we get into physics about pressure waves and all that. But the simple answer is yes, the twin-scroll turbo used on our N55 engines is more efficient - which is really what the N55 is supposed to be about. "Efficient Dynamics" and such. Regarding the AT's effect on perceived turbo lag, there's another factor with that trans - kickdown - which can be perceived as lag between stepping on the throttle and the engine/trans response. In sport/sport+ mode, the trans shifts faster both up and down, and this seems to be positively affected with the MPPK in place. When accelerating and keeping a constant throttle opening, there will be some advantage over an MT in terms of keeping boost up (no throttle closing and subsequent boost drop). Also, another poster was dubious about the new (MPPK) DME software upgrade affecting the steering, and I can only point to the various responses in the thread, and my own experience, that the steering has tightened up since the install of the MPPK. I don't know too much about how the electrically-boosted steering's control mechanisms work, but they are controlled, to some extent, by the DME software.
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05-01-2013, 10:55 AM | #22 | |
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Is there a datasheet provided by BMW on what is specifically changed in this PPK tune? We spend all this money on these upgrades, the least they can do is provide us with some technical details. I am highly interested in any potential steering wheel "hardening" as that is one of my major headaches with the F30. I would get this tune today if I was guaranteed a substantial steering improvement when driving this car in comfort mode. SHIVASWRATH, I know its hard to explain over the internet, but, with this tune, does the comfort mode steering change to the equivalent to the sports mode steering feeling? To me, this is more important than the power gains in the tune. Thanks everyone... |
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