[micknugget]

Originally Posted by adamsclubs

The irony is, the C250 Sport looks more like a sport sedan, it even has drilled front disc brakes. It benefits from the lowered sport suspension and performance tires. But it's power delivery sucks.

The base F30 328i IMO does not look like a sport sedan, more an executive sedan as it is so defined in Europe anyway, and not the best looking one. But it clearly has a better powerplant. The all season RFTs hinder the performance of the good powerplant.

I'm not sure what your idea of "sport sedan" is but I thought that the BMW looks more sporty. Parked next to each other the BMW looks wider, lower, and has a longer front end. The front of the BMW also looks far more aggressive.

[adamsclubs]

Of course how the car looks to us is highly subjective.

MB did not provide as much incentive on C250 as they did on the SUVs, for example the C250 did not get conquest discount. On the other hand I read the lease deals on the C300 was really good.

[micknugget]

Originally Posted by adamsclubs

Of course how the car looks to us is highly subjective.

MB did not provide as much incentive on C250 as they did on the SUVs, for example the C250 did not get conquest discount. On the other hand I read the lease deals on the C300 was really good.

That's odd. I had a Jag and they (MB) were giving me $2000 conquest along with another $2000-$3000 on top of that.

[adamsclubs]

Originally Posted by micknugget

That's odd. I had a Jag and they (MB) were giving me $2000 conquest along with another $2000-$3000 on top of that.

When was that? I was referring to the May 2012 incentives.

[Nedmundo]

Originally Posted by Jason

A lot of people seem to equate feel and weight as the same thing.

Very true. I think some also confuse response and accuracy with feel/feedback, which might partially explain the wide range of reactions to the F30's steering. I tested an F30 328i Sport Line. Its steering has a wonderfully linear response, which produces impressive accuracy. The car goes exactly where you point it, with no "slack" in the steering. But that isn't the same as feedback from the contact patches, which the F30 lacks, especially relative to previous 3 Series cars, which provided stellar feedback and a connected, "locked in" sensation that's largely missing from the F30 IMO.

I've been living with EPS for awhile in my 2010 Acura TSX. Its steering is heavier than the F30's -- even with the latter in sport mode -- but is otherwise similar. It's responsive and accurate, but transmits virtually no information from the road surface. This is my least favorite aspect of the car.

I suspect the F30's steering would produce more feedback with different tires, and that BMW will eventually dial in more feedback to its EPS systems generally.

[J Tiberius]

I suspect the F30's steering would produce more feedback with different tires, and that BMW will eventually dial in more feedback to its EPS systems generally.[/QUOTE]

You are correct on this, at least in my experience. I traded out the runflats for max performance summer tires and the steering experience, even in comfort mode, is greatly enhanced. It's as close to e90 steering in sport+ as I could have expected from a first-year EPS system. The capability is definitely there in the F30, but it is very much dependent on the tires.

[micknugget]

Originally Posted by adamsclubs

When was that? I was referring to the May 2012 incentives.

March

[Propagator]

You are correct on this, at least in my experience. I traded out the runflats for max performance summer tires and the steering experience, even in comfort mode, is greatly enhanced. It's as close to e90 steering in sport+ as I could have expected from a first-year EPS system. The capability is definitely there in the F30, but it is very much dependent on the tires.

That's interesting. My understanding is that the biggest difference between old and new steering is that the new EPS is lacking in road fill. This would normally be further suppressed by tires with softer side wall.

[oyezoyez]

Nedmundo -- great stuff! Whatever feedback the car lacks through the steering column, it makes up for through the chassis and suspension -- in both the base and sport incarnations. I feel it through the seat, floorboard, pedal. Actually think that the RFs increase this feel b/c of their rigidity -- even if they lack grip. Anyhow, after several 400-500 miles drives in the F30, I'm enjoying the combination of raw connection and relaxed precision. Obviously not to everyone's taste, and there's nothing wrong with that. Have enjoyed enormously the shifts in throttle response with transition from Eco Pro to Comfort to Sport, and would enjoy even more parallel transformations in steering dynamics.

[J Tiberius]

Originally Posted by Propagator

That's interesting. My understanding is that the biggest difference between old and new steering is that the new EPS is lacking in road fill. This would normally be further suppressed by tires with softer side wall.

The sidewall is harder in my non runflats than the OEM Goodyears. It was like driving on sponge cake. This generation rft's can't really be compared to the past, and performance tires are very, very firm if you buy the right ones. In my experience the results speak for themselves - much more pronounced steering feel even with eps.