[captainaudio]

When I first saw the title of the thread I thought it was going to be about Kim Kardashian.

[CLittle]

Originally Posted by Beowulf65

In my car with the ASS active, if I stop and put the car in Park and set the Parking Brake...the car is in "Ready" mode. When I open the door and step out and close the door...the car shuts off.

I think the key difference in behavior is whether you buckle and unbuckle your seatbelt with ASS active. Engine goes to ready mode, foot is depressing brake pedal, unbuckle seat belt, open the door, engine will now go to off position.

Do anything but that exact sequence, engine will restart as soon as foot is off the brake pedal. How anyone wouldn't hear or feel the engine restart is beyond me though.

I think the main fear of an auto shutoff feature in absence of a key fob is if your key fob battery dies during a trip, you wouldn't want your car to go into auto shutoff mode.

[Blubaron79]

Learn how to work your car. It's not BMW's fault

[Vegetable]

I wonder if garage door companies will also be included in this lawsuit for those who forget to push the "open garage door button" while letting their cars warm up in the morning. BTW, CO might do a body good in moderate amounts..

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Vegetable

BTW, CO might do a body good in moderate amounts..

I heard the science was not settled yet.

[CHCCubs]

Originally Posted by Blubaron79

Learn how to work your car. It's not BMW's fault

Agreed, typical ridiculous lawsuit. Instead of learning how to properly use something these lazy idiots would rather file a lawsuit.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by ft1330

What I don't get is why the car doesn't turn itself off when it's locked by a keyfob?

I believe the story is missing a detail. It is likely a key fob is in the car. Here's a more likely scenario. One fob in car and one in purse/pocket. Car slows to park. Start-stop engaged (i could say ASS engaged but ... well...ahem ahem). Owner leaves car. Battery runs down. Engine on. The engine re-engages because one fob is still in the car.

At home try this. One fob. Car on. Leave car. Your BMW will start to complain the fob is gone and shut down after a while. Now leave one fob in the car and another in your pocket. Car won't shut down.

Another possibly? Other manufacturers just have cheaper systems that aren't as clever as BMW's choice.

I would like to see the legal argument on how keyless ignition is killing people. In the CNN version it appears as a frivolous lawsuit that screams for tort reform. But it is not beyond imagination many large firms would benefit from reform tilted in their favour and would likely spend money on marketing a one-sided view of a lawsuit.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by menncars

I believe the story is missing a detail.

It is. The story makes no mention of the ASS system anywhere. It has to do with remote start systems, not ASS.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

It is. The story makes no mention of the ASS system anywhere. It has to do with remote start systems, not ASS.

Way back (> 10 years) i saw some of the AM based remote starters when i worked overseas. Wave a metal coat hanger around quick enough could get a car started it seems. It was a cool but highly flawed technology.

As far as i know BMW doesn't have remote start, does it? In fact a friend's neighbour got a call from BMW telling them their car had been idling for 45 minutes. Sure enough car at commuter train station, unlocked, and key fob in centre console. Hubby had to run for the train. Left car on. Oooops.

[Halsifer]

Originally Posted by ft1330

http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/26/auto...wsuit0430story

Apparently ASS or its equivalent in other manufacturer's cars have caused 13 deaths so far due to carbon monoxide poisoning in enclosed spaces.

Basically the driver parks into his garage, ASS kicks in and the driver doesn't realize the car is still on. After a while the car wakes up while the user is away, and toxic levels of carbon monoxide build up in the garage.

I know that on this very forum, some people came back to their cars only to find it idling with the doors locked. Luckily for them this was a train station parking lot (if I remember the story well).

What I don't get is why the car doesn't turn itself off when it's locked by a keyfob?

Originally Posted by Billfitz

It is. The story makes no mention of the ASS system anywhere. It has to do with remote start systems, not ASS.

The article is nothing to do with neither 'Auto Start-Stop' nor 'Remote Start". It really just applies to hybrids.

Users are basically walking away from their running cars and have forgotten to shut them off. Honestly, all these cases had better just be hybrids, because if you are walking away from a car with an engine clearly running, that's your fault.

Hybrids can be dead-silent, giving the impression they are off, so I can see that mistake happening. I feel like manufacturers should take this scenario into precaution for this reason, and most probably have. Just because some people are adults with the ability to drive doesn't mean dummy-proofing shouldn't be applied.

As for our own BMWs, for those wondering, Auto Start-Stop will only activate and cutoff the engine in Park and Drive. The engine will NOT turnover again when the vehicle is placed in park, the seatbelt is removed, and the driver's door is opened. You will see your tachometer move from 'Ready' to 'Off', and if you try to engage a gear after that occurrence, it will notify you that you need to restart the engine yourself. If you touch the throttle before you get out, the engine will start again and stay running and Auto Start-Stop will not cutoff your engine again until your vehicle has been moved above 5 mph in Drive, so your engine will continue running even without the fob being out of the car. The vehicle is still fully operable and running if you remove the fob with the engine running and will remain operable and running until the user goes back and shuts off the car.

I like Tesla's central locking and ignition system. To unlock the vehicle, you literally walk up to it. Once you get in and close the door, the ignition is already on and the car is ready to be put in gear. To shut off the car, you literally get out and close the door, then all systems shut down. To lock it, you walk away. Pretty damn convenient and easily possible now days. But this really only applies to them because they don't have an engine, obviously.

[WHL102]

I would say the hybrid EV is more dangerous than ASS. I've seen my neighbor's Chevy Volt cycling on and off for an entire WEEKEND unbeknownst to him. Imagine that was parked in a garage.

[Labeef]

What a bull shit lawsuit. This theory can be applied to any appliance. Leaving your stove on can cause death. Incorrectly using you toaster can cause death.

The fact is your using heavy machinery. You need to remember that improper use can result in death, just like any other consumer product.

[Straight Six]

I will admit when I first had my car I forgot once or twice (wasn't used to having the feature) but I was reminded by the sound of the engine...

[oln08]

This cannot happen to a BMW hybrid. I have an activehybrid 3, the tach goes to off as soon as i open the door when engine is off.

[Kowboi]

My ASS shuts off when I lock the doors on the keyfob.

[Aatish]

Originally Posted by Kowboi

My ASS shuts off when I lock the doors on the keyfob.

That doesn't sound healthy....

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Read the article again. It has nothing to do with ASS, other than the picture of an ASS starter button. It has to do with people who forget that they started their car and left it running in a garage. Stupid, yes, but no more so than those who ignore manufacturer warnings and leave electric generators in a garage or even in the house and end up on the next day's news as another statistic. You can't fix stupid, but God has his ways of culling the herd.

The ability to leave the engine running when the fob isn't in the car is no different than my '63 Chevy, which could remain running after you removed the key from the ignition, or would even start without the key if you removed the key in the 1/2 turn position. IMO just an other example of contingency lawyers in search of deep pockets to fleece.

People are confused, because the article cites to a "hybrid", so when you pull in the garage, the gas engine might shut down and if you don't turn the car off, the gas engine could restart if the battery power runs low.

BMW's ASS is the opposite. If you put the car in park, and the ASS shuts down the engine, you actually need to press the start button to "restart" the engine.

But what a great class action. The companies will settle for some ungodly amount, the lawyers will get 33% of it, and the plaintiff class will get a $500 coupon toward their next car purchase from the defendant companies.

[murrays]

Ran a test today, when I opened the door, either with the car in Park or the brake depressed and ASS active, it shut the engine down completely.

No way I'm getting out of my F30 and having the engine start up again.

[BavarianFanatic]

I heard this a week or so ago. Just another case of dumbing everything down for the minority.

The issue I recall wasn't ASS, remote start, or hybrids. It was all cars that use a push button start as opposed to a conventional key. The argument was that with a regular key, you have to turn the car off to physically remove the key. With a push button start, the fob is on your person so you don't need to shut the car off before leaving it. The claim is that folks just park the car and walk away forgetting to shut it off. I personally see this more as a contemporary form of natural selection. It sucks that people get hurt or die, but they are such an infinitesimally small percentage of the entire populace that making changes to suit so few is ridiculous. Has anyone done an study to see how many people with conventional keys have also perished like this? I'll bet it's actually a larger number, but that's a tougher case to settle...

[RoundelM3]

I think this sort of thing is a testament to how our society in general seems to lean towards gadgets that negate the need for people to actually think about what they're doing. All these "driver's aids", such as lane-change warnings, automatic braking systems, etc. are going too far in allowing drivers to be distracted from the job of operating their vehicle. We all know how "smart phones" have made otherwise-intelligent persons abjectly stupid and co-dependent on them to function, and these "driver assist" gadgets are also encouraging less driving skills. It may be due to society's shift towards viewing cars as "transporation appliances" and, like washing machines, dishwashers, and other things that "make life easier", that's what people want. They'd rather be texting someone or "tweeting" or watching a video than paying attention to operating a 2- to 3-ton vehicle. We car enthusiasts are a dying breed, and there's just not enough of us to prevent this ongoing evolution in vehicle design and features.

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

I personally see this more as a contemporary form of natural selection. It sucks that people get hurt or die, but they are such an infinitesimally small percentage of the entire populace that making changes to suit so few is ridiculous. Has anyone done an study to see how many people with conventional keys have also perished like this? I'll bet it's actually a larger number, but that's a tougher case to settle...

If people can do this, anything is possible:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ocked-Car.html

Elderly couple almost suffocated after spending 13 hours in their car because they forget their remote key device and thought they couldn't open the doors without it

Mollieanne and Brian Smith were trapped in a Mazda 3 for 13 hours
The elderly couple thought they could only open the doors with a remote
They used up all the air in the car and were struggling to breathe
Mrs Smith was so ill and distressed she spent three days in hospital

By Richard Shears for MailOnline


A New Zealand couple have been rescued from their locked car 'close to death' because they thought the remote device - which they did not have - was the only way to get out.

For close to 13 hours Mollieanne and Brian Smith sounded the Mazda 3 car horn and tried to smash the windows with a car jack as they sat trapped in the vehicle that was parked in the garage of their home In Alexandra, on the South Island.

The elderly couple had been led to believe that only the remote control would open the doors - not realising that a simple catch by the door handle would have freed them, reports Otago Daily Times.

For close on 13 hours Mollieanne and Brian smith sounded the horn and tried to smash the windows of their new Mazda 3, believing they were trapped inside

When the couple were finally freed by neighbours the following morning Mrs Smith was unconscious because they had used up all the air in the car and her husband was struggling to breathe.

She told the paper today that they had learned from emergency services that if they had spent another half an hour in the car they could have died.

They said they believed there was no way to get out if the doors were locked and they did not have the remote control device with them.

They swung a car jack against the windows, hoping to break out, without success and sounded the horn after realising they could not open the doors at seven o'clock in the evening, but no-one came to help.

It was only the following morning that neighbours found them and called for an ambulance. Mrs Smith was so ill and distressed that she spent three days in hospital.

The elderly couple had been led to believe that only the remote control would open the doors - not realising that a simple catch by the door handle would have freed them

Mr Smith told the Otago paper that he considered himself 'very methodical' but he could not work out how to open the doors without the remote control device.

'Once I found out how simple it was to unlock it I kicked myself that I did not find the way out,' he told the Otago paper.

'I had this mind-set that I did not have the transponder (so I could not get out).'

He said the car salesperson had made it seem the car would not work without the transponder.

But he said he now knew that the manual lock was the same as the inside door handle on many other vehicles.

And he had a message for the owners of other 'keyless' cars and not just Mazdas: 'Educate yourselves on how to operate your car before using it.'

His wife said she had decided to speak out because people needed to be aware of the risks of keyless cars, particularly older people inexperienced in new technology.

Mrs Smith told the paper that she had received phone calls from about five other people reporting similar experiences with keyless cars.

But Mr Glenn Harris, Mazda New Zealand's general manager, said the report of the couple being trapped in the car in that manner was an industry first.

'It's not a design flaw with the car,' he told the paper.

'What we have said to the network is, with the new technologies, don't forget to show customers how to use them in their entirety and how to override them.

'There is always a manual process to override them.'

He added that the company 'completely empathised' with the couple and wanted to ensure what they had experienced did not happen to anyone else.

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by tex2670

If people can do this, anything is possible:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ocked-Car.html

You simply can't account for every possible scenario of (insert politically correct substitution for stupid here) end users. I'll buy the concept of them being confused and that it's a newer technology that they weren't used to, but it's still a bit ridiculous.

This one could easily be filed with the gentleman that died in his Corvette earlier this year when the battery died disabling the electric latches. He apparently didn't realize there was a manual release. Short of plastering warning labels and decals all over the place (even more than we already have) there's nothing to prevent these sorts of scenarios. It's totally asinine to make changes to existing systems in order to try to prevent them. People will still find creative ways to get it all wrong.