[Elk]

Originally Posted by 300hp

More importantly the F30 has a very good VIR time. That's all that matters at the end of the day.

I would not trumpet the F30's lap times too loudly.

The F30 has an OK VIR lap time at most. It is bested by a number of "lesser" cars, including the Cobalt SS and the V6 Mustang.

(Similarly, the Camaro SS - *not* the flagship ZL1 - ran a 3:01.5, with the M6 trailing behind at 3:04.7; the M5, 3:05.2. Three seconds a lap is a KO. Can you say "owned" boys and girls?)

The F30 is not a performance car, nor does BMW make one. BMW sacrifices a great deal to performance in order to include other features/benefits. Consumers are buying them for reasons other than performance.

The Lexus possesses similar performance, as well as plenty of other characteristics to attract the same buyers as BMW. People typically buy cars for many emotional reasons - and then attempt to justify them objectively, as this thread readily illustrates.

Originally Posted by 300hp

Why aren't you hung up on the figure 8 time [sic]

Probably for the same reason you are inextricably and unremittingly hung up on figure 8 times when you claim an xDrive handles better than a RWD.

Apparently a slightly faster figure 8 is decisive when comparing AWD v. RWD, but meaningless otherwise.

Buy the car that makes you happy. If what makes you happy is a roundel, buy one. I wanted a entry level luxury car that can get out of its own way as a daily driver/winter beater. The 335 is perfect for this role.

It is not the fastest, best handling, best looking, etc. But it has a nice balance of compromises and at 22,000 miles, is doing admirably.

And oil changes are incredibly quick and simple.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by Elk

I would not trumpet the F30's lap times too loudly.

The F30 has an OK VIR lap time at most. It is bested by a number of "lesser" cars, including the Cobalt SS and the V6 Mustang.

(Similarly, the Camaro SS - *not* the flagship ZL1 - ran a 3:01.5, with the M6 trailing behind at 3:04.7; the M5, 3:05.2. Three seconds a lap is a KO. Can you say "owned" boys and girls?)

The F30 is not a performance car, nor does BMW make one. BMW sacrifices a great deal to performance in order to include other features/benefits. Consumers are buying them for reasons other than performance.

The Lexus possesses similar performance, as well as plenty of other characteristics to attract the same buyers as BMW. People typically buy cars for many emotional reasons - and then attempt to justify them objectively, as this thread readily illustrates.

Probably for the same reason you are inextricably and unremittingly hung up on figure 8 times when you claim an xDrive handles better than a RWD.

Apparently a slightly faster figure 8 is decisive when comparing AWD v. RWD, but meaningless otherwise.

Buy the car that makes you happy. If what makes you happy is a roundel, buy one. I wanted a entry level luxury car that can get out of its own way as a daily driver/winter beater. The 335 is perfect for this role.

It is not the fastest, best handling, best looking, etc. But it has a nice balance of compromises and at 22,000 miles, is doing admirably.

And oil changes are incredibly quick and simple.

Two things:

1) you will never find a single post where I said xdrive handles better than rwd. Not one post
2) what I did speculate is given its better figure 8 times, ability to claw out of curves and faster straight line performance, it will lap faster than the rwd. That is what you will find me saying.

It's one thing to say the mustang v6 beat the f30 at the track and another thing to say the is350 handles better than the 335i seperate topics that are unrelated. In any case the F30 laid down a better time than the 135i and 335is. That's good enough for me.

On the subject of figure 8 and VIR, look at the camaro here, it destroys the f30 on the figure 8 and its no surprise the F30 gets destroyed at VIR

http://m.motortrend.com/roadtests/co...gt_track_pack/

That's why I like that test. It's a good indicator not weaving around cones (traffic cough cough)

[slickdeals333]

Originally Posted by 300hp

Lexus designed this car to test well in the slalom forgetting that the track is what matters.

No what matters most for these cars are how they ride and handle on the streets not the track. Its obvious the lexus designed a car with the right balance of handling and driver feed back. Something bmw used to be good at.

Its been reported by 3 major US car mags, many loyal bmw owners that the 3r and even 5r has lost that magical feel to it. The truth is bmw may no longer be the ultimate driving machine. The competition has caught up and surpassed. People who are badge bias will never understand competition is good and will fight tooth and nail to try to validate their need to feel superior to others while the rest of us are rolling our eyes.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by slickdeals333

No what matters most for these cars are how they ride and handle on the streets not the track.

I could not agree more with this assessment as it relates to the IS350. However BMW makes cars that are good at track, canyon roads and luxury.

Elk btw the Camaro SS ILE lays down a 24.2s figure 8 time, M5 24.9s.

Floyd Mayweather vs Canelo, enjoy the fight or the weekend

[3g43]

Well, I drove a new 328xi and a 335xi last night, both Sports without DHP, then a IS350 AWD F-sport tonight. I'm looking for a new car, so I gave them all a fair shot. I read the magazine comparos earlier this week.

But, I call BS on the reviews. The IS350 is the best Lexus I have ever driven, yes. It was fast, and cornered pretty well, at least in Sport+ mode. I even like how it looks on the outside. But I didn't feel it handled as well as the 328 or the 335. For some reason, the first corner I went around, the tires squealed. Not in Sport+ mode, but I corner like that all day in my BMW. It's not as refined, the engine doesn't have as smooth of power curve, and the transmission is in a different league, in a bad way (the AWD has a 6-speed and the RWD has an 8-speed for some reason). And I really hate like metal-colored plastic in the interior. Loved the gauges though, those are very well done.

I come away from it feeling like the magazines are punishing BMW for the softening of the F30 (for good reason) by giving a nod to the IS more than it would otherwise deserve. Lexus is coming up, no question, but they're still not quite there, at least not as close as these recent comparos would have you believe.

[trey100]

Originally Posted by 300hp

I could not agree more with this assessment as it relates to the IS350. However BMW makes cars that are good at track, canyon roads and luxury.

Elk btw the Camaro SS ILE lays down a 24.2s figure 8 time, M5 24.9s.

Floyd Mayweather vs Canelo, enjoy the fight or the weekend

I don't know the answer but knowing BMWs track record - do the M5 and M6 (or M3 for that matter) have run flat tires ? I would imagine the camaro has more serious rubber which can skew many of the results of these objective handling tests. The objective tests are an important gauge of a cars "relative" performance but driving them like others have done here is probably so much more important. None of these cars are serious track cars.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by trey100

I don't know the answer but knowing BMWs track record - do the M5 and M6 (or M3 for that matter) have run flat tires ? I would imagine the camaro has more serious rubber which can skew many of the results of these objective handling tests. The objective tests are an important gauge of a cars "relative" performance but driving them like others have done here is probably so much more important. None of these cars are serious track cars.

I don't really want to comment on the M cars as I don't own nor have I ever owned one. If you ask the current M owners I speculate they will say their cars do well on the track while having a good doss of luxury. However I leave it up to them.

If you look at the track times at Laguna Seca I don't see how you can possibly not be happy with the M6 time given size and weight. It even beat the M3

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna_seca.html

The E92 was also beat by the Cobalt SS on this track, the Ford Focus ST is right there with the E92.

I think Randy Pobst owns Laguna Seca, like literally bought it and put it in his back yard

[imyopusha]

Originally Posted by ep_83

RC-F and IS-F have already been caught testing. They're not going to copy the F80. These cars take years to develop. They're using the e92 M3 as a benchmark. That doesn't really mean they're copying the e92 (they could be), but they're definitely not copying the new M3.


Link: http://m.motortrend.com/wot/lexus-rc...pe-400403.html

I didn't mean a hastened, but it seems Lexus does EVERYTHING to be as close to BMW as possible without being obvious, these days. Let's face it, the IS350 is only around because of the 3er. Same with IS-F and M3.

[Dinh335]

Originally Posted by Elk

I would not trumpet the F30's lap times too loudly.

The F30 has an OK VIR lap time at most. It is bested by a number of "lesser" cars, including the Cobalt SS and the V6 Mustang.

.

I don't disagree with the spirit of your post, but looking at the results, the mustang v6 and the cobalt ss are really the only 'lesser' cars per se that were quicker. I wouldn't call a Nismo 370z lesser and everything else are pretty dedicated hard core sports cars.

The 335 also beats similar 'sporty cars as well. Again, not disagreeing with what the spirit of your post, which is that the 335 isn't some super sporty car,, but I don't think the 335 was bested by a BUNCH of 'lesser' cars on the lightning lap.

full historical results at the bottom of this page
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...o-2013-page-10

[300hp]

FYI

The Cobalt SS beat the E92 on this track

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna_seca.html

Although its cheaper than an E92/F30 it's generally regarded as a dedicated sports car and should be respected as such.

[tdizzle]

Good lord look at the bang for buck performance you could get out of a Camaro/Mustang in their various forms. The ZL1 is sitting in some exclusive company (right behind the gorgeous LFA). The only cars within 10 spots of them are around double the price or more (some much much more).

The downright cheap SS, beat the M6, M5, M3, R8, C63 and some Porsches.

Not saying I'd want to drive one, but can't argue with the performance.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by tdizzle

Good lord look at the bang for buck performance you could get out of a Camaro/Mustang in their various forms. The ZL1 is sitting in some exclusive company (right behind the gorgeous LFA). The only cars within 10 spots of them are around double the price or more (some much much more).

The downright cheap SS, beat the M6, M5, M3, R8, C63 and some Porsches.

Not saying I'd want to drive one, but can't argue with the performance.

You are not alone in making that assessment

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test