[Jamesons Viggen]

All those threads/topics going on and on about the 335 and the 328, the N20 vs the N55...sigh.

Then add in all the E90 Vs F30 BS, double sigh.

I just got back from my very own Mini BMW fest since I brought my E36/7 down to Georgia to spend a few days with my best friend of 20yrs who added TWO BMWs to his stable this month.

One, an '08 335i RWD Sport with the 6spd auto. The other, was for his wife, an F30 that I found:



I quickly got to work setting up her car, changing the Sport Displays to HP/TQ, throwing on MPerformance grills, debadging the dealers crap, and since she hated the wood trim, I talked her out of the black/red and bought the MP suede/CF trim from a forum member here.

Before I got there I was hearing her not in love with the car. She said she STILL thought my friend's N54 was faster. This was true of all the other cars she drove, E90 N55s, F30 328s, and even she claims other N54 cars. My friend was wondering if his N54 was tuned.

But the F30 I got her had a few goodies you might notice. The CF mirror caps, the side sill vinyl, oh yeah-the PPK!!!!!

I knew there was no way his stock N54 with the older 6spd auto could be faster than a PPK N55 with Sport auto/8spd.

So I took everyone out to the "club"(which was torture-too old and too married for this shit lol) and I put it in Sport+ and the trans in Sport. I proceeded to bang off redline shifts and merge on the highway from a 30mph roll and quickly crack 100. All were blown away, apparently she just wasn't setting up the car to show what it could do.

For 4 days I drove nothing but his N54 and that PPK N55 as well as little joy rides in the Roadster.

First up, the E90...

The N54 is a stout starting point. But I knew in 30 seconds his car was 100% stock and untuned. The 6spd auto sure ain't BAD, but it kind of dates the performance of the car. The HEAVY steering, really did not bother me the way it used to, I also had driven my E36/7 for 15 hours lol. The runflats, when you hit a bump-far more jarring than the newer run flats.

The interior. I felt some switch gear that DID feel more solid than the F30, but others less so. Some places that felt more solid, others not. But in the end, the E90 interior just felt too dated to me at this point. That's just my opinion. But my friend who was all about his E90, even he said the F30 is just so much more up to date and he did not find anything jarring in terms of a decline in quality when stepping into the F30.

Handling-really unfair to say, we did a lot of highway pulls and stuff, no real cornering.

The F30 335i...

My 328 MSport has always been enough for me. I did not want an 335, I did not want the temptation to make a 2nd beast, it's just dumb for MY stable. I felt even more validated when I had a 335i RWD Sport for a week. Of course it was faster and sounded better, but I liked the handling less, and the gap just did not seem big enough.

But then comes her F30. First, the PPK is NOTICEABLE. You could say the N20 vs N55 is not THAT big of a deal, but when you throw the PPK in the mix, there is nothing to talk about anymore. The key is, the N20 has a lot going for it. But for me, it lacks charisma. And no matter how much power is added, or sounds improved, I just think it's the nature of the engine. The PPK combined with the Sport Auto and the blats from the exhaust, yeah-sold me on the car for HER. Still not sold for me, as impressed with the 8spd that I am, it's still no manual and I just don't need that car as my 2nd car.

Also, anyone who claims the difference in N20 and N55 MPG is non existent is kidding themselves. I romped the N55 and had days where I just hummed along and it was noticeably less than my 328. HOWEVER, the performance that car gives while getting the mileage it does, it truly is having your cake and eating it too.

So before I got there she was kind of meh about the car. But I showed her she has a burly-quick car and a relaxed economical cruiser in one car, I had to get similar results with two separate cars lol.

Does that mean I like my MSport 328 any less? Nah, like I said-perfect for me and what I wanted it for. I also know I need to get a stage 2 tune back in it quickly, I can't have the friend's wife show me up lol.

Sorry for the long post. This is not meant to be some huge debate and rehashing of old crap. It was a unique experience of driving interestingly configured BMWs for days and how they were meant to be driven-not for an hour with a sales guy in the back seat. We really got to see the benefits of the E90 vs F30, N54 vs N55(tuned) etc.

[OC40]

EXCELLENT write up, my friend. I cannot wait to add PPK in February (decided to purchase the M Performance Suspension first - this Tuesday) . Again, great thread.

[trey100]

Great post - I enjoyed the read and comparison.

[vitriol]

Solid write-up. Thanks for sharing!

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

But then comes her F30. First, the PPK is NOTICEABLE.

The PPK combined with the Sport Auto and the blats from the exhaust, yeah-sold me on the car for HER.

Thanks for the post. That's an interest set of rides available for sure.

2 quick questions:
- Do you think the PPK is "underrated" as in, delivering more power than the claim? Or is it just that the extra 20hp widens the gap enough for you to feel it between 328 and 335 (stock vs stock)
- What year was the 335 sport you drove while shopping, and did it not have the blats and burbling in sport+ mode? Or was it a matter of the PPK car being much more noticeable (my stock 2013 335 sport blats/burbles noticeably and I haven't found anyone local with the PPK to compare)

[300hp]

Earlier today I posted the numbers for a 420/430 CTS 3900lbs running the same numbers as the 335i with PPK.

PPK is the future

Nice write up and I would have wanted to spend time with friends just as you did

[Presario]

Great write up! It was a very fun read. Nothing better than spending some time with old friends, filled with spirited driving in BMWs!

[vitriol]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

(my stock 2013 335 sport blats/burbles noticeably and I haven't found anyone local with the PPK to compare)

It does? I can't say the same for mine.

My E90 335 burbled like a BEAST. I added 4" tips, which seemed to enhance the sound. Subtle but unmistakable sound. People used to stop me and ask me about my exhaust, assuming it was aftermarket.

I miss that sound.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Thanks for the post. That's an interest set of rides available for sure.

2 quick questions:
- Do you think the PPK is "underrated" as in, delivering more power than the claim? Or is it just that the extra 20hp widens the gap enough for you to feel it between 328 and 335 (stock vs stock)
- What year was the 335 sport you drove while shopping, and did it not have the blats and burbling in sport+ mode? Or was it a matter of the PPK car being much more noticeable (my stock 2013 335 sport blats/burbles noticeably and I haven't found anyone local with the PPK to compare)

It does widen the gap, but I have a pretty accurate butt dyno and would say the 20hp crank is comedic and its more like 20-25whp, which might have been confirmed by a dyno or two by now. But, it might be less whp, but MORE tq than anything.

The Sport I had for a week was a '12 without the Sport trans and square all season tires. I got out of it liking the braking, steering, handling better in my 328 and not swooning over the power difference like I did with her PPK+Sport Auto combo.

[Falafel Combo]

Thanks for sharing. Very cool experience from a BMW enthusiast.


You have been bitten by the N55 bug my friend. Countdown to James "traded in the 328i for a 335i" thread ...

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by KORALLROT

Thanks for sharing. Very cool experience from a BMW enthusiast.


You have been bitten by the N55 bug my friend. Countdown to James "traded in the 328i for a 335i" thread ...

Nah, trade just doesn't make sense. If you guys knew what my E36 was like, you'd understand. The N55, if I was really taken by the concept, would just get an '07 N54 car for $10k and put some bolt ons and make it nasty.

If the 328 goes in a couple of years it will be only one of two ways:

1) Downsize to something CHEAP($15-20k cash) and so the only car payment is on a Porsche as an added toy.
2) Stay in the BMW family with either a M235 GC, 435 GC, or F80 M3.

[pazzo]

Great write-up!

After having a 335, albeit without the PPK, I feel the 328 is enough for me also. While I miss the sound and visceral feel of the 335, the 328i difference in weight results in better handling IMO.
My cars have always been transportation first and foremost so comfort has been a big requirement for me. Both cars excel in comfort, even with the excellent performance/handling.

I hope they make a PPK for the 328 and an improved exhaust note, but I noticed with the 328 it feels more relaxed and dare I say refined on the highway which will help in long range comfort or at least the perception of.

I guess in an ideal world, I'd like the power of the 335 in a balance/weight package of the 328. What to do?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by vitriol

It does? I can't say the same for mine.

My E90 335 burbled like a BEAST. I added 4" tips, which seemed to enhance the sound. Subtle but unmistakable sound. People used to stop me and ask me about my exhaust, assuming it was aftermarket.

I miss that sound.

It is most noticeable when the chassis is in sport+ and gearbox in Sport or Manual mode. Build date 04/13 if I am not mistaken

Stock E89 35 burbles louder but for the F30 35 the blat on full throttle upshifts and burble when lifting the throttle are there as well

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

It does widen the gap, but I have a pretty accurate butt dyno and would say the 20hp crank is comedic and its more like 20-25whp, which might have been confirmed by a dyno or two by now. But, it might be less whp, but MORE tq than anything.

The Sport I had for a week was a '12 without the Sport trans and square all season tires. I got out of it liking the braking, steering, handling better in my 328 and not swooning over the power difference like I did with her PPK+Sport Auto combo.

+20-25whp is pretty compelling.... non sport transmission + square all seasons is pretty different than sport auto + staggered summer tires... not surprising you weren't super excited.

EDIT: agreed with '07 335 + big power mods, beater + porsche or upcoming M car as the path forward. My F30 is staying stock in anticipation of one of those approaches as well.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by pazzo

I guess in an ideal world, I'd like the power of the 335 in a balance/weight package of the 328. What to do?

See, what I arrived at is you can have 328 handling/balance with 335 power-that's easy. But read again about what I said about the engine not having charisma. It's something that specs don't provide. If both engines made the same power and same sounds, there still would be something missing for the 328-I think it's an inherent nature to the architecture of a small inline 4 that you can never totally escape no matter how good. I have had great, beastly turbo 4's since I was a kid. They have characteristics that are improved upon with other scenarios.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

+20-25whp is pretty compelling.... non sport transmission + square all seasons is pretty different than sport auto + staggered summer tires... surprising you weren't super excited.

My 328 has H&R springs, lighter wheels and sticky 275's out back, my handling was not going to be put to shame by the 335. On the drive there, I had a whoops and took the E36 to 7200 instead of short shifting till I get a new tune with more fueling and saw 14.5psi which should equate to more like 550hp at the crank.

So like I said, I am covered with the two separate cars-I was not going to come from the experience and go home longing for anything. She has it GOOOD that her one car can be either or.

[kevbh]

Nice write up. What does the "/7" mean when you mention your E36/7?

[300hp]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

It is most noticeable when the chassis is in sport+ and gearbox in Sport or Manual mode. Build date 04/13 if I am not mistaken

Stock E89 35 burbles louder but for the F30 35 the blat on full throttle upshifts and burble when lifting the throttle are there as well

I am not sure what you guys are describing as blat and burble but here are my observations.

In comfort mode you get a very nice exhaust note. Kind of like a throaty drone (beefy) but very little burble on up shift and what I will call multiple pop sounds from the exhaust as you let off the gas. I prefer this sound when you are just relaxed and not changing your speed often.

In sport+ ds not activated that's where the bubble kicks in when you up shift. It's there all the way to the triple digit speeds. Wind noise will reduce the experience a bit but you can hear it and feel it even as speed progresses higher. From a stop with aggressive driving its even louder and you even feel it more. I prefer this set up when having fun especially if I can have my windows open. You don't get the short bursts of pop sounds as you let off the gas until...

Sport+ DS activated. Now we are talking. Go to say an urban set up, open your windows and since DS is activated from a stop go as wot as safely as you can considering traffic and people and manually shift to second. You will hear the burble, it's just a glorious sound. Now let the car stay in second gear and just get a little bit of gas in there and let go, you will hear the pops from the exhaust, it's really loudish and you will not be the only one who can hear this. The harmony of the inline 6 as you rev up a bit and let go of the gas so as to get the pops from the exhaust is addictive. You won't even need to go higher than 35 mph to experience this. In highway setting the burble and pops are very audible at any speed. However you lose the beefy throaty sound you get in comfort mode.

My observation have been there are three settings then for your exhaust note:

Beefy and throaty with no burble and pops in comfort but DS not activated. Best used when speed is not changing much. It's just as good an experience reminding you of the potential power that remains unused

Very little beefy exhaust once in sport+ no ds activated but louder burbles with less audible pops, best used when there are lots of up shifts since you lose the beefy exhaust note

Once DS activated in sport mode burbles and pops everywhere since speed is changing and these can be heard and felt at any speed.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

My 328 has H&R springs, lighter wheels and sticky 275's out back, my handling was not going to be put to shame by the 335. On the drive there, I had a whoops and took the E36 to 7200 instead of short shifting till I get a new tune with more fueling and saw 14.5psi which should equate to more like 550hp at the crank.

So like I said, I am covered with the two separate cars-I was not going to come from the experience and go home longing for anything. She has it GOOOD that her one car can be either or.

I had a typo which I have since corrected.. I meant to say NOT surprising you weren't excited by the 335 you drove (all seasons + no sport programming for auto).

Why don't you just drive the Z3 all the time? If you can drive it 15 hours should be good to go for a daily.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by kevbh

Nice write up. What does the "/7" mean when you mention your E36/7?

Its the chassis code for the z3/m roadster as its e36 based, the coupes are e36/8s.

[jtuds]

That white 335i is identical to mine except I have a Cf spoiler and I'd never put the M performance stickers on the car.

It sure is fast. I just wish I have more bends to drive around.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Why don't you just drive the Z3 all the time? If you can drive it 15 hours should be good to go for a daily.

My parents are old and not in the best shape, I do a lot of caregiving-sedan is a must.

I do have a hardtop for the M, but it's a pre DSC car, so 500hp, short wheelbase with no traction control-it's a handful. In the heavy rain of the trip it took some skill just to keep it straight. Would not want to drive this thing in the snow.


It is my DD during April-Oct though.

[btbossman]

Yeah the f30 335 sure is a beast! I recently drove a e93 335 pretty sure it was an n54 as it had 2 mufflers.Drove my 335 and the e93 basically back to back, really feel like the f30 is quicker. Cant wait for a tune, Really looking forward to the cobb!