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      12-07-2020, 05:18 PM   #89
D041987
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You are stock 6 speed manual.... That tranny will grenade at around 450-500WTRQ if you want to do any sort of launching... It will hold up to roll racing though. Also the 6 speed has beefier shafts 36mm I believe, so they are the same as the 335i already. The N20/N26 Auto boys have 32mm shafts which are weaker then the 335i (36mm).

As for fueling, the HPFP will get you soo far. If you want to run any sort of blends of E85 I would just go with Port Injection and upgrade the LPFP and have any sort of fuel you want with the ability to swap out injector sizes etc.

As for turbo. It's a shame you are building the motor but not the turbo... Spend the extra money and get a manifold, downpipe and the boost pipe done and call it a day rather then trying to cut and weld other turbos to fit...

Also for your clutch, I would strongly suggest you get the 335I NON SSA Pressure Plate and get yourself a puck clutch otherwise you will be going through clutches every year.

If you do decide to upgrade the trans:
F30 335I Shift arm (Holds the shifter assembly from the trans to the chassis)
F30 Gear shift selector rod.
E90/E92 335I N54 trans (6 Bolt flywheel version)
N54 (6 bolt) DKM Twin disk clutch/ flywheel combo.
Auto or the Manual 335I drive shaft from an F30 car.
F30 335I Factory LSD (3.15 Ratio) or Manual 335i diff (3.25 Open carrier). The ratio wont make any noticeable change in rpm or speed as it's too small of a difference. But higher ratio will get you a more peppier car.
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Last edited by D041987; 12-07-2020 at 05:45 PM..
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      12-07-2020, 06:24 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D041987 View Post
You are stock 6 speed manual.... That tranny will grenade at around 450-500WTRQ if you want to do any sort of launching... It will hold up to roll racing though. Also the 6 speed has beefier shafts 36mm I believe, so they are the same as the 335i already. The N20/N26 Auto boys have 32mm shafts which are weaker then the 335i (36mm).

As for fueling, the HPFP will get you soo far. If you want to run any sort of blends of E85 I would just go with Port Injection and upgrade the LPFP and have any sort of fuel you want with the ability to swap out injector sizes etc.

As for turbo. It's a shame you are building the motor but not the turbo... Spend the extra money and get a manifold, downpipe and the boost pipe done and call it a day rather then trying to cut and weld other turbos to fit...

Also for your clutch, I would strongly suggest you get the 335I NON SSA Pressure Plate and get yourself a puck clutch otherwise you will be going through clutches every year.

If you do decide to upgrade the trans:
F30 335I Shift arm (Holds the shifter assembly from the trans to the chassis)
F30 Gear shift selector rod.
E90/E92 335I N54 trans (6 Bolt flywheel version)
N54 (6 bolt) DKM Twin disk clutch/ flywheel combo.
Auto or the Manual 335I drive shaft from an F30 car.
F30 335I Factory LSD (3.15 Ratio) or Manual 335i diff (3.25 Open carrier). The ratio wont make any noticeable change in rpm or speed as it's too small of a difference. But higher ratio will get you a more peppier car.
Thanks for the advice ! I have the 8 speed auto zf not a manual. I plan on running a turbo and a centrifugal supercharger into a big intercooler with 2 inlets and one outlet. I already ordered the parts to upgrade the lpfp, I’m going to use port injection and run on 93 oct. For the lsd I plan to go with wavetrac later on after the engine is tuned. While I get the rest of the built engine done my main concerns are fueling and what turbo to go with. I don’t need it for more than 400-450 whp max, the centrifugal supercharger will cover the rest. Is there anyone selling exhaust manifolds for bigger turbos ???
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      12-07-2020, 10:32 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel918 View Post
Thanks for the advice ! I have the 8 speed auto zf not a manual. I plan on running a turbo and a centrifugal supercharger into a big intercooler with 2 inlets and one outlet. I already ordered the parts to upgrade the lpfp, I知 going to use port injection and run on 93 oct. For the lsd I plan to go with wavetrac later on after the engine is tuned. While I get the rest of the built engine done my main concerns are fueling and what turbo to go with. I don稚 need it for more than 400-450 whp max, the centrifugal supercharger will cover the rest. Is there anyone selling exhaust manifolds for bigger turbos ???
Currently no one sells aftermarket manifolds, needs to be custom.
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      12-08-2020, 03:08 PM   #92
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I'm going to have to figure something out.
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      12-14-2020, 12:19 AM   #93
Kel918
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So I've been trying to figure out solutions for the hpfp and I think I found a way to use the supra tu pump. Disconnected the main line to the fuel rail, I also found a company that would make a custom hpfp hard fuel lines/s, the only thing would be if the supra hpfp would physically fit in the same location as our stock hpfp fuel pump. Almost finished with upgrading the stock lpfp too.
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      12-14-2020, 12:22 AM   #94
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Also had someone 3d print the vortech v3 centrifugal supercharger compressor side, so I can start doing measurements on where would be the best fit for it. I might have to go with rotrex if its too big though
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      12-15-2020, 08:09 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel918 View Post
Also had someone 3d print the vortech v3 centrifugal supercharger compressor side, so I can start doing measurements on where would be the best fit for it. I might have to go with rotrex if its too big though
Bolt In HPFP solution has been solved in the last month or so
http://spoolperformance.us/index.php...product_id=105

The B58TU (from the Supra) is the only stock HPFP that is considered an upgrade to the N20, it does fit and will bolt into the housing and connect to the harness with minor adjustments. However the inlet and outlet ports on the pump face different orientations to the stock N20 pump. meaning custom Hard HPFP lines need to be made.

Considering most of those A90 Supra HPFP's go for close to what the Spool FX150 is selling for, then you add the cost of the additional parts to get the B58TU HPFP to work. It would be cheaper to just buy the Spool FX150 and have the tune flashed with new HPFP calibration data.

Alternatively Port injection kits already exist for the N20 which are cheaper than a HPFP upgrade.
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      12-21-2020, 01:30 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navardi View Post
Bolt In HPFP solution has been solved in the last month or so
http://spoolperformance.us/index.php...product_id=105

The B58TU (from the Supra) is the only stock HPFP that is considered an upgrade to the N20, it does fit and will bolt into the housing and connect to the harness with minor adjustments. However the inlet and outlet ports on the pump face different orientations to the stock N20 pump. meaning custom Hard HPFP lines need to be made.

Considering most of those A90 Supra HPFP's go for close to what the Spool FX150 is selling for, then you add the cost of the additional parts to get the B58TU HPFP to work. It would be cheaper to just buy the Spool FX150 and have the tune flashed with new HPFP calibration data.

Alternatively Port injection kits already exist for the N20 which are cheaper than a HPFP upgrade.
Would your ecu still be able to control fueling or is this the beginning of running a standalone? Are there piggyback type controllers?

I'm very interested in this process. Best of luck Kel and awesome help thus far navardi
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      12-21-2020, 05:54 PM   #97
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I think I知 going to go with the supra tu pump, I found it for $820 brand new online from a Toyota dealer, and bms has a wire harness extension for only $42. I contacted a company who builds hard fuel lines and they said they can make the line for me. I would probably buy like 10 or more for others who might want to go that route. I looked at the spool hpfp but they want $1,399 for it. I知 hoping to find a used b58 tu pump like this guy on YouTube did and save money

Last edited by Kel918; 12-25-2020 at 10:47 PM..
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      12-21-2020, 05:55 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tijke View Post
Would your ecu still be able to control fueling or is this the beginning of running a standalone? Are there piggyback type controllers?

I'm very interested in this process. Best of luck Kel and awesome help thus far navardi
Thanks for the good wishes !!
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      12-25-2020, 11:32 PM   #99
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decided to go with the n55 oem turbo might upgrade it to dinan, or do a stage 2 upgrade.
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      12-27-2020, 02:18 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel918 View Post
I think I知 going to go with the supra tu pump, I found it for $820 brand new online from a Toyota dealer, and bms has a wire harness extension for only $42. I contacted a company who builds hard fuel lines and they said they can make the line for me. I would probably buy like 10 or more for others who might want to go that route. I looked at the spool hpfp but they want $1,399 for it. I知 hoping to find a used b58 tu pump like this guy on YouTube did and save money
Does it flow that much more? I found this very helpful: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=24680607
FWIW the pump stroke on the N20 is around 4.6mm. I assume I measured it wrong, and is really 4.7mm, in which case it matches the N55 exactly. If true that means the N20 fuel system can flow as much fuel per revolution as the N55, even though it only has 2/3 the number of injectors (meaning each N20 injector can inject 1.5x as much fuel as an N55 injector).
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      12-27-2020, 07:25 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tijke View Post
Would your ecu still be able to control fueling or is this the beginning of running a standalone? Are there piggyback type controllers?

I'm very interested in this process. Best of luck Kel and awesome help thus far navardi
Cheers mate,

PI/CPI needs an external "piggyback" style controller, you can use the JB4 + BMS PI controller or FSB Controller instead of the BMS PI. Or you can use the Split Second "flash only" controller. TBH I prefer to work with the split second as it doesn't interfere with the ecu flash and datalogging capabilities of Bootmod3 tunes (or any other tune for that matter).

HPFP upgrades, can be controlled by factory ECU with some changes to the tune
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      12-27-2020, 07:30 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSmith View Post
Does it flow that much more? I found this very helpful: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=24680607
FWIW the pump stroke on the N20 is around 4.6mm. I assume I measured it wrong, and is really 4.7mm, in which case it matches the N55 exactly. If true that means the N20 fuel system can flow as much fuel per revolution as the N55, even though it only has 2/3 the number of injectors (meaning each N20 injector can inject 1.5x as much fuel as an N55 injector).
Yeah N55 / B48 / B58 Piston size and stroke is identical you can interchange, but the only real upgrade being the B58TU or the aftermarket pumps.

N20 HPFP caps out around 42lbs/min of airflow on 93(somewhere in the 420-460 crank HP range based on low reading dyno).

But N20 HPFP crashes hard on E50 mixes and above on a stock turbo setup, so having something to provide more fuel is pretty important.

I actually provided abit of a write up on this if ya'll interested.

https://navardituned.com.au/blogs/th...pfp-capability
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      12-27-2020, 07:33 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel918 View Post
decided to go with the n55 oem turbo might upgrade it to dinan, or do a stage 2 upgrade.
Awesome! that turbo will need to run around 26-29PSI to flow 41-42lbs a min of air at 6000 RPM. (higher boost than N55 because 4 cyl and lower displacement). that turbo is used on the AMG M133 engine which runs somewhere around 24-26PSI stock (gauge pressure).

All you need to do now is get it to fit onto the engine, which shouldn't require too much work.
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      12-27-2020, 10:29 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navardi View Post
Awesome! that turbo will need to run around 26-29PSI to flow 41-42lbs a min of air at 6000 RPM. (higher boost than N55 because 4 cyl and lower displacement). that turbo is used on the AMG M133 engine which runs somewhere around 24-26PSI stock (gauge pressure).

All you need to do now is get it to fit onto the engine, which shouldn't require too much work.
I really didn't want to run more than 21-22 psi max, would my block without the cylinder support be ok on 26-29PSI ?? would It be better to upgrade to Dinan, or Pure stage 2 that way I wouldn't have to run more than the 20-22 psi I wanted to be at ?? Thanks !! for the contributions btw
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      01-05-2021, 06:19 AM   #105
navardi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel918 View Post
I really didn't want to run more than 21-22 psi max, would my block without the cylinder support be ok on 26-29PSI ?? would It be better to upgrade to Dinan, or Pure stage 2 that way I wouldn't have to run more than the 20-22 psi I wanted to be at ?? Thanks !! for the contributions btw
Not sure why you're trying to stick to 22psi Max, Bone Stock motor takes 25-26 PSI just fine, With Sleeves capable of 40-45PSI, Closed decking is only needed if you do extreme workloads i.e trackcar to help prevent cylinder wobble under high engine loads and G forces on the car/motor.

I don't think you quite understood what I was trying to say before regarding more boost etc.

the Stock N55 Turbo flows 41-42lbs/min on 18-20PSI because the N55 has a displacement of 3L plus its a 6CYL, so it places the compressor wheel of the turbo in a different part of the compressor map, on the N20 being 2L and 4 CYL you are required to run higher boost to get the turbo to flow the same 41-42lbs/min. I mean you just built the engine, so 30+ PSI shouldn't be a worry at all. A turbo that large wouldn't hit 26PSI till 4K rpm anyways, like all big turbo cars there will be some turbo lag over stock but a perfect tune can help eliminate that as the DME has lots of tables around Spooling etc that can be manipulated to help spool the turbo really fast.

feel free to DM me if you want any help

TLDR:
You will find out the hard way that without running that Turbo on a 4CYL at higher boost you won't make alot of power/flow alot of air over stock turbo.

If you want to understand the science behind it use this tool

https://www.borgwarner.com/matchbot/...6_wrsin=92044&
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      01-11-2021, 07:17 PM   #106
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finished setting up the timing for the engine, next is getting the turbo sorted out. Btw if you want to use the n55 stock turbo, the manifold would not physically fit even if you cut the extra 2 cylinders off. The only option is to cut it from the exhaust manifold and adapt it to the n20 exhaust manifold.
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Last edited by Kel918; 01-21-2021 at 12:18 PM..
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      01-12-2021, 07:38 PM   #107
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Did you replace the sprockets on the crank for the timing chain? If so, were you able to do it on an engine stand?
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      01-14-2021, 04:10 AM   #108
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Did you replace the sprockets on the crank for the timing chain? If so, were you able to do it on an engine stand?
I did change the sprocket to the new version from bmw, also new oil pump, oil pump chain. As long as you have all the tools to set the timing it's pretty easy
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      01-15-2021, 11:02 PM   #109
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Interesting build, looking forward to seeing how this all unfolds.
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      01-16-2021, 12:21 AM   #110
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Nice work man. Looking forward to see end the end result!
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