[Bigfish786]

I didn't really want to drive in the snow and ice, but my Mrs was an hours walk away from home, and had been volunteering at a covid vaccination site (working outdoors) .
So, I cleared the driveway, cleaned off my car and set off. We live around 3/4 mile away from the main rd, so the biggest problem with snow and ice was the first few hundred yards.
With a couple of 90 degree bends on an incline, at least an inch thick with ice. I was a little nervous at first as the car is still on summer tyres. But it went really well. It felt quite sure footed and had no slip at all. I was very impressed.
On my return I parked up and was chatting with the neighbours, in the space of a few mins, 2 vans and a car got stuck on the same piece of road that I had just drove on, which made the experience in the f30 all the more impressive.
But I will still be getting a winter set of wheels at some point.
Really happy with its performance today.

[McBeemer]

Originally Posted by Bigfish786

I didn't really want to drive in the snow and ice, but my Mrs was an hours walk away from home, and had been volunteering at a covid vaccination site (working outdoors) .
So, I cleared the driveway, cleaned off my car and set off. We live around 3/4 mile away from the main rd, so the biggest problem with snow and ice was the first few hundred yards.
With a couple of 90 degree bends on an incline, at least an inch thick with ice. I was a little nervous at first as the car is still on summer tyres. But it went really well. It felt quite sure footed and had no slip at all. I was very impressed.
On my return I parked up and was chatting with the neighbours, in the space of a few mins, 2 vans and a car got stuck on the same piece of road that I had just drove on, which made the experience in the f30 all the more impressive.
But I will still be getting a winter set of wheels at some point.
Really happy with its performance today.

You will find that fitting winter tyres will take it to a whole new level, particularly when braking on inclines etc. Mine is like a land rover minus the ground clearance in heavy snow.

[bishbosh]

I'm currently still on my summers too as I bust my previous summer tyres and my winters were knackered. Couldn't spend £1k plus for 2 sets of tyres. This is first year I've not used a set of winter tyres.

I found the summers were ok in the snow but I had to be extra careful as they just did not grip as well as the winters did on my previous e91. Driving home yesterday I had no issues until I was within about 50m of my house, ended up heading towards a kerb - very slowly, probably walking pace if that, went full opposite lock so as not to damage the wheels and the tyre scraped about a foot along the kerb and came to a stop.

I'll probably get some winter tyres for next year as I'm WFH at the moment so not likely to be venturing out much. Knowing my luck next winter will be mild!

[seenthelight!]

Great with the car, but on a different note, big thumbs up to the wife for her volunteering in these difficult times

[DarCol]

Wish my M4 was 4wd :-(

[Rhino at Work]

Having run both my 330xd and 340i on winters I'm convinced it's by far the tyres that make the majority of the difference. Of course that means both is best but the difference isn't that great IMHO.

[Wills2]

It's braking and steering where winters come into their own, xdrive is good for giving you some traction even with summers but it all falls apart once you're going down hill and think you can brake in my experience.

I had an little incident last week, snowy car park at the golf club no issues driving up to it but coming back out I was driving a 2 tonne sled that wouldn't stop.

[Ennoch]

Originally Posted by Wills2

It's braking and steering where winters come into their own, xdrive is good for giving you some traction even with summers but it all falls apart once you're going down hill and think you can brake in my experience.

I had an little incident last week, snowy car park at the golf club no issues driving up to it but coming back out I was driving a 2 tonne sled that wouldn't stop.

Yup, when I had my last FFRR it came with some cheap things wrapped round the rims which looked like UHP summers. Suffice to say that the first time I took it away climbing in the Cairngorms it was a slightly interesting drive back down into Aviemore on the polished ice on the road surface, a road that also happens to be reasonably steep in a good number of places! They got swapped out for some real tyres pretty sharpish. All the 4WD and Hill Descent Control in the world won't help you if the coefficient of friction between tyres and road is virtually zero!

[jamiem1987]

Biggest part for me is the tread depth whether it be on winters or summers. I’ve just had brand new goodyear rft’s on the rear so 8mm and i’ve been able to get where front wheel drives couldn't in my 440 (rear wheel), they were skidding and sliding all over a steep hill where after a bit of drama mine bit and crawled up the hill, i can only think that a lot of people are bombing around with little tyre tread and it does make a big difference not just to snow and ice but also road noise etc. I always use to put winters on my old 330d previously religiously but due to covid i haven’t bothered this year on the 440. I’d make an argument that these summers with 8mm perform better if not as good in the snow than the winters did with 4 / 5mm. Of course brand new winters would be best i’m not arguing that.

Best advice for me is if any tyres are down to 3ish mm get them changed, the difference is remarkable.

[APJ]

Originally Posted by Wills2

It's braking and steering where winters come into their own, xdrive is good for giving you some traction even with summers but it all falls apart once you're going down hill and think you can brake in my experience.

I had an little incident last week, snowy car park at the golf club no issues driving up to it but coming back out I was driving a 2 tonne sled that wouldn't stop.

I had a similar experience the other week, after a good walk round a reservoir driving back down the cobbled road (no problems getting up it), every time i touched the brakes it just started skidding, realised the problem was because it was in drive, the car just wants to pull away, so to slow it down you have to brake, easy solution was pop it in to neutral, so your able to travel slower and then occasionally feather it down on the brakes, it was amazing the difference it made !

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by APJ

I had a similar experience the other week, after a good walk round a reservoir driving back down the cobbled road (no problems getting up it), every time i touched the brakes it just started skidding, realised the problem was because it was in drive, the car just wants to pull away, so to slow it down you have to brake, easy solution was pop it in to neutral, so your able to travel slower and then occasionally feather it down on the brakes, it was amazing the difference it made !

I was using hill decent control, but when it came to braking for the lights which were at red it just slid at 3mph out on the road and through the lights to be honest I would always have the car in gear (not drive but in manual mode in 1st at the very least no throttle just traveling down on the weight of the car, in neutral the car would just run away down a steep slope)

[Pentland]

Originally Posted by Wills2

It's braking and steering where winters come into their own, xdrive is good for giving you some traction even with summers but it all falls apart once you're going down hill and think you can brake in my experience.

I had an little incident last week, snowy car park at the golf club no issues driving up to it but coming back out I was driving a 2 tonne sled that wouldn't stop.

This.
I have a pretty level driveway and once when parked on snow (summer tyres), the car slid off the drive.
While xDive is great for traction in dry and damp conditions and will get you moving in some snow, it’s false security in snowy conditions without the right tyres.

[lethbridge]

I'm sure summer tyres are getting worse at coping with cold conditions - presumably in their search for improved efficiency, reduction in the particles they throw off and longevity. That plus the chance to sell you winter tyres. Another thread indicated a lot are getting 40k miles out of them which indicates a compound that won't work in the cold - you won't get anything like that out of winters. This combined with our desire for wide tyres makes our cars pretty hopeless on snow. I live in the SW which means winters shouldn't really be needed but the wide MPSSs on my M3 (265/285) are not good and very snappy in damp conditions much below 10 degrees even with good tread let alone snow so I have winters on and it has transformed the car. When I had my 335d GT xDrive it was good at getting me out of my bendy hilly road and onto treated roads but I wouldn't want to be driving it when all the roads are snowy. At the end of the day most people on snowy roads will not have winters on and will drive too fast for the conditions so it doesn't matter how well prepped your car is as you still have the chance of one of them taking you out...

[APJ]

Originally Posted by Wills2

I was using hill decent control, but when it came to braking for the lights which were at red it just slid at 3mph out on the road and through the lights to be honest I would always have the car in gear (not drive but in manual mode in 1st at the very least no throttle just traveling down on the weight of the car, in neutral the car would just run away down a steep slope)

I suppose every situation is different, i was trying to go a slow as possible, putting it in drive made it go faster, also i'm not as fortunate as you and i don't have the hill decent, i was also well aware of an F31 trying to come up the hill, he was fishtailing all over the place and its a narrow road, eventually he made the wise decision to reverse back down, so i was quite happy to travel at my half mile an hour. But i do appreciate what you are saying about letting the gear do the engine braking on a steep hill, even if we are only doing 5/8 mph it can be quite scary when there's a red light and the car doesn't want to stop !!!
Stupid thing is, i just can't believe why we didn't use the wife's Evoque, that's the problem with asking a six year old which car to take !! and of course it didn't look that bad and of going down roads that's not not on a bus route can also be quite dangerous.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by APJ

I suppose every situation is different, i was trying to go a slow as possible, putting it in drive made it go faster, also i'm not as fortunate as you and i don't have the hill decent, i was also well aware of an F31 trying to come up the hill, he was fishtailing all over the place and its a narrow road, eventually he made the wise decision to reverse back down, so i was quite happy to travel at my half mile an hour. But i do appreciate what you are saying about letting the gear do the engine braking on a steep hill, even if we are only doing 5/8 mph it can be quite scary when there's a red light and the car doesn't want to stop !!!
Stupid thing is, i just can't believe why we didn't use the wife's Evoque, that's the problem with asking a six year old which car to take !! and of course it didn't look that bad and of going down roads that's not not on a bus route can also be quite dangerous.

Some of your comment is why I prefer to have RWD and winter tyres.

You have full control of engine braking and use the rear wheels to retard the vehicle. Much better in snow and on ice. Brakes become the secondary slowing/stopping function, leaves front wheels to have more steering control in worst conditions.

I emphasis again, RWD with good engine braking (at the rear) is one of the best features you can have for driving in snow.

Folks get so hung up on AWD, for getting going, forget it can be a burden for car control on the wrong tyres.

[jenshb]

"Power is nothing without control" was the slogan of a tyre manufacturer. xDrive may give you power, but winter tyres give you control on snow, ice and in low temperatures...

[simnew]

Current sports tyres on MSport Rims are pretty useless on slippery roads never mind snow and ice.

I have had xdrive and can confirm that without winter tyres it can give a false sense of security. My 2003 had Goodyear Eagles summer tyres and they were a pretty soft tyres with diagonal sipes and they were much better for traction than the PZeros (19's) I currently have for summer.

Currently have Sottozero 18s on the car and they are pretty terrific. Best winter tyres I've ever had were Michelin Alpin a4. Terrific tyre and lasted well as well.

Had an interesting near miss in my 430xd GC with summers on. Was driving in London, heavy snow starts. All ok. Then near Lords cricket ground was going around the two mini roundabouts. Pulled away no problem but then slid without steering or braking straight into turn back I of a taxi. No damage fortunately and ever since then I have winters on my 440.

[JNW1]

At my current lockdown mileage it will be years before the tyres on my car need replacing but when the time comes I'm increasingly leaning towards a good quality All Season to replace the Pirelli run-flats. Neither the car nor my driving style justify top range performance tyres like PS4S's and generally the weather where I live doesn't justify full winters either. Therefore, looking at the reviews I think a good quality All Season could provide an ideal compromise - more than good enough for the way I drive in good conditions in warmer weather whilst giving extra grip in the sort of colder conditions we get round here in winter.

[APJ]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Some of your comment is why I prefer to have RWD and winter tyres.

You have full control of engine braking and use the rear wheels to retard the vehicle. Much better in snow and on ice. Brakes become the secondary slowing/stopping function, leaves front wheels to have more steering control in worst conditions.

I emphasis again, RWD with good engine braking (at the rear) is one of the best features you can have for driving in snow.

Folks get so hung up on AWD, for getting going, forget it can be a burden for car control on the wrong tyres.

Pete i don't think at any point i said xdrives were any good in the snow, think i even hinted that we should have taken the wife's Evoque, which is always my go to car when the weather is bad, especially with having an E91 before, which was also the worst car I'd ever driven on ice and snow, so yes winters are a must if you need to use the car every day.

I'd also be amazed if a rear wheel drive with winters had more car control in the snow than an xdrive with winters, though any car with winters would be a huge improvement than on standard summer tyres. Personally i have never bothered buying any winters because if i need to go out in snowy weather i'll just use the wife's car, though i would love to try an F36 that has winters on

[Steces]

The worst winter car I have ever had was a F31 335d

The issue may have been the brand of RFT which gets slagged off the most but even with a light touch on the throttle and AWD it was nervous in damp and wet conditions and slush, ice and snow were a complete liability with steering and braking pretty much none existant

Im currently in a RWD ( so not xDrive) 5 series on Dunlop winters and have been driving around in this weeks snowfall where SUV's have been stranded

Its all about the tyres

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by APJ

Pete i don't think at any point i said xdrives were any good in the snow, think i even hinted that we should have taken the wife's Evoque, which is always my go to car when the weather is bad, especially with having an E91 before, which was also the worst car I'd ever driven on ice and snow, so yes winters are a must if you need to use the car every day.

I'd also be amazed if a rear wheel drive with winters had more car control in the snow than an xdrive with winters, though any car with winters would be a huge improvement than on standard summer tyres. Personally i have never bothered buying any winters because if i need to go out in snowy weather i'll just use the wife's car, though i would love to try an F36 that has winters on

My comment wasn't meant to be a criticism, more an observation from use. Particularly for the benefits of engine braking and car control.

We experimented with an X3 on a private slope, on snow, the limit is when the front wheels have to share traction (braking) and steering on the descent. My observation and in use, RWD allows retarding with the rear and you can use all the available front tyre grip to steer.

Yes, it is a finer nuance of car control, but as there is only so much tyre grip, the less of it you need for front braking, the more of the grip can be used to steer.

[APJ]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

My comment wasn't meant to be a criticism, more an observation from use. Particularly for the benefits of engine braking and car control.

We experimented with an X3 on a private slope, on snow, the limit is when the front wheels have to share traction (braking) and steering on the descent. My observation and in use, RWD allows retarding with the rear and you can use all the available front tyre grip to steer.

Yes, it is a finer nuance of car control, but as there is only so much tyre grip, the less of it you need for front braking, the more of the grip can be used to steer.

To be honest if I'd had a manual gearbox i would definitely have used the gearing as you can control how it pulls the car, but with an auto they pull at something like three or four miles an hour without using the accelerator (forgot the actual speed), but my problem was i wanted to go slower than that (obviously my hill wasn't as steep as yours).

Maybe with your rear wheel drive theory i should have used the handbrake gently, in that way i would always have control of the steering. Which i think i have done previously many many moons ago.

Some situations are never ideal, you just have to do your best and get get down as carefully as you can, after all none of us want to damage our pride and joy.