[seenthelight!]

Anyone considering the polestar 2 ?

[gr4z]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

I would take a serious look at the Merc option too, looks really well sorted, and not a rush job like the iPace. Pricing is higher than Model 3 but I suspect on PCP/lease wouldn't be that much different.

That Merc looks really good. Lease rates, for ones I can find, are high though.

[Witney]

Originally Posted by Ajs_435d

Thats what I'm going to do wait till next year.

Through a limited company writing off profits, how much better in the pocket are you really?

Thanks

Significantly if you are a company director. Company can write off 100% of the cost in first year against tax. All maintenance insurance etc through the company before corporation tax. Then with a nil BIK next year, you are laughing.

When the BIK was 0% a few years back the accountants were pushing directors in to the Porsche Panamera for the very same tax benefits.....As soon the BIK rose to 7-13% they were not attractive.

[GBR1]

My gut feel on these is we are one generation too early still. These will move quickly in terms of range, speed of charging etc and I suspect buying one in 2-3 years time will give us more choice and a better overall package.

My biggest issues is the number of charging points, i mentioned this before when i pulled up at a motorway services a few months ago (somewhere on the M4) it had 3 chargers, all were taken up and guy was sat waiting for one to free up. Now given the rational that you go for a coffee etc while you wait he was still there and waiting when i left 15min later. Given he had to be there for 30 min or so to charge his once plugged in that put me off there and then.

So even if the car tech is there is the UK network ready????

GBR1

[gr4z]

Originally Posted by GBR1

My gut feel on these is we are one generation too early still. These will move quickly in terms of range, speed of charging etc and I suspect buying one in 2-3 years time will give us more choice and a better overall package.

My biggest issues is the number of charging points, i mentioned this before when i pulled up at a motorway services a few months ago (somewhere on the M4) it had 3 chargers, all were taken up and guy was sat waiting for one to free up. Now given the rational that you go for a coffee etc while you wait he was still there and waiting when i left 15min later. Given he had to be there for 30 min or so to charge his once plugged in that put me off there and then.

So even if the car tech is there is the UK network ready????

GBR1

Exactly the reason I am looking to lease not buy. Lease for 2 or 3 years then there will be other choices, maybe better maybe not. Hand it back, get another depending on the tech and BIK incentives.

[Oceanic]

Have a read of this

https://www.instituteforenergyresear...X-Frlzm4RwzoUc

[GBR1]

Originally Posted by Oceanic

Have a read of this

https://www.instituteforenergyresear...X-Frlzm4RwzoUc

Its studies like these which push the car industry down the hydrogen route. Japan is going that way, as far as I believe they have gone all in on Hydrogen and very little in the way of electric!

Its could turn into the VHS- Betamax war, however European companies seem set on Electric.!

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by GBR1

So even if the car tech is there is the UK network ready????

I took delivery of our Tesla in March 2017, 200 miles range average.

Since then I've done 37k in total, been up to Edinburgh, down to Southampton, regularly do Leicester to Cardiff/London. Went to north France last summer, and have a massive road trip to Norway planned once my daughter is only enough to tolerate really long road trips. My daily work/nursery run is 10 miles, the majority of the mileage we've done in the EV is family weekend/holiday trips.

Its a different mindset from petrol cars, and there is clearly a massive degree of change/un certainty. But having lived with a 24kWh 70 mile range Leaf for 14k miles range/charger anxiety is something I've not experienced for a long long time.

[cc3]

Originally Posted by seenthelight!

Anyone considering the polestar 2 ?

Yes I have put a deposit down. Prefer it to Tesla. Better fit and finish. Nice design. Integrated Google maps etc

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by Oceanic

Have a read of this

https://www.instituteforenergyresear...X-Frlzm4RwzoUc

Don't believe everything you read...

Google the career of the founder for founder of this website, I give you one guess which company/field he worked in for over a decade of his life.

Robert L. Bradley, Jr.

The amount of 'fake news' on EVs is crazy, but not be unexpected, a shift to EVs will make some of the biggest companies today almost irrelevant.

[pdk42]

Originally Posted by Oceanic

Have a read of this

https://www.instituteforenergyresear...X-Frlzm4RwzoUc

That report had been widely debunked. This Wikipedia page is a good read to understand the issues:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envi...e_electric_car

[pdk42]

Originally Posted by GBR1

My gut feel on these is we are one generation too early still. These will move quickly in terms of range, speed of charging etc and I suspect buying one in 2-3 years time will give us more choice and a better overall package.

My biggest issues is the number of charging points, i mentioned this before when i pulled up at a motorway services a few months ago (somewhere on the M4) it had 3 chargers, all were taken up and guy was sat waiting for one to free up. Now given the rational that you go for a coffee etc while you wait he was still there and waiting when i left 15min later. Given he had to be there for 30 min or so to charge his once plugged in that put me off there and then.

So even if the car tech is there is the UK network ready????

GBR1

I think I agree with this. There will be a lot more EVs available 12-18 months from now and from the regular brands. Whilst the Model 3 is very nice, on further analysis I've got growing concerns over Tesla as a company. On top of that, as much as I'd like to be a pioneer, I'm coming to the conclusion that it's still a little too early for EVs to be a replacement for my main vehicle.

So, I think I'm out!

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by pdk42

I think I agree with this. There will be a lot more EVs available 12-18 months from now and from the regular brands. Whilst the Model 3 is very nice, on further analysis I've got growing concerns over Tesla as a company. On top of that, as much as I'd like to be a pioneer, I'm coming to the conclusion that it's still a little too early for EVs to be a replacement for my main vehicle.

So, I think I'm out!

That's a shame.

My view on EVs is that as long as the car fits what you need in all other respects then the EV propulsion becomes an advantage. Being able to 'fill up' on your driveway, for a fraction of diesel/petrol cost, sounds like heaven. Long runs (very long runs in the case of Tesla) just need a bit of planning - but that's no bad thing anyway.

Tesla itself *may* run into issues, but it won't disappear. If the value of the company was ever low enough, one of the majors would snaffle it up.

Not saying you are wrong and don't want to come across as hypocritical. I wanted a big SUV and drove the Model X. For me, I just couldn't live with the perceived interior quality and features at the price they were charging at the time. I can perfectly see why people buy them, though.

If I wanted a mid-size 3-box saloon to do 5k-15k a year, a model 3 would be very near the top of my list. Below 50k, Tesla's interior quality becomes much less of an issue.

[gr4z]

If you want my long term opinion, when the big boys catch up Tesla will move away from car manufacturer and flog their batteries, recharging and technical expertise. Can't see it happening just yet, but they are such a niche car maker, the others will just overwhelm them. They have other interests as well aside from cars. Just my 2p though.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by pdk42

On top of that, as much as I'd like to be a pioneer, I'm coming to the conclusion that it's still a little too early for EVs to be a replacement for my main vehicle.

So, I think I'm out!

Have to say to your probably about 5 years too late get into the 'pionner' phase of EVs, even in 2015 the Leaf was pretty much a mainstream car .

But I cannot say you made a bad decision unless you really really need to change cars sitting on your hands is by far the best thing to do.

There's loads of exciting stuff coming down the line from just about everyone, another 12-18 months will see a much mature market for EVs.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by RichMB

That's a shame.

My view on EVs is that as long as the car fits what you need in all other respects then the EV propulsion becomes an advantage. Being able to 'fill up' on your driveway, for a fraction of diesel/petrol cost, sounds like heaven. Long runs (very long runs in the case of Tesla) just need a bit of planning - but that's no bad thing anyway.

This is all true but right now the EV market is about to explode, I love our X, but now isn't the time to be splashing the cash on any EV. Though having said that if someone took away our X tomorrow I would still go out and get another one, but that's because am hooked, but if you haven't experienced it yet though, waiting is by far the most sensible option.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

This is all true but right now the EV market is about to explode, I love our X, but now isn't the time to be splashing the cash on any EV. Though having said that if someone took away our X tomorrow I would still go out and get another one, but that's because am hooked, but if you haven't experienced it yet though, waiting is by far the most sensible option.

But if the alternative is splashing the cash on a petrol/diesel, what's your view then? I agree that the EV market is about to explode and that progress will be rapid, but I think that in five years that will probably still apply.

[pdk42]

Originally Posted by RichMB

But if the alternative is splashing the cash on a petrol/diesel, what's your view then? I agree that the EV market is about to explode and that progress will be rapid, but I think that in five years that will probably still apply.

For £50k, which is what a decent spec Tesla 3 would cost, you'd get a lot of car - esp as a slightly used example.

[bodtwo]

With others in that ev cars need another generation or two as does infrastructure. We’ve some seriously high performance energy density motors coming out in a couple of years, combined with some changes in chemistry, that’s when it goes mainstream.

Companies are now only just beginning to design proper battery systems rather than just use bulk 16500’s or whatever they are. That will make a big difference as they are being designed for a proper duty cycle and weather loading rather than a theoretical 20c constant.

There’s also lots of tech which will filter over from the e aircraft development, again power weight density will increase massively as they scale up.

As for being mad, if you like it and it fits your style of journeys then go for it. I’ve tried to convince myself but I do 230 mile round trips a couple of times a week so there’s no ev I could use between November and March without fear of range anxiety.

The thought of spending 30 or 40 minutes at the services queuing to charge up for another 30 or 40 minutes twice a week is not compelling.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by cc3

Yes I have put a deposit down. Prefer it to Tesla. Better fit and finish. Nice design. Integrated Google maps etc

Also considering it but will go second phase to hear feedback from early adopters first.

[Quakered]

Well we had our 328i estate for 6 years and it provided reliable transport for this old git - a Morris Traveller for the Millennial pensioner surely or Cortina for the Millennial Rep!

I swapped it for an I Pace and could not be more delighted, nicer to drive, goes like shit of a shovel and no endless list of extra to spec - all in the base package on the Jag (well nearly). A clean sheet design to take full advantage of the electric power train. By contract VW and Mercedes seemed to have just grabbed an existing SUV, ripped out the stinking diesel and stuck batteries and an electric motor in them!

So far home charging with a 7KW outlet (£500 grant from the government to install) has met all our needs. doing a full charge at home (240 mile range) costs around £7. If I live to 140 and keep the Jag it will pay for itself.

I have taken the free electrical charge at the local Waitrose and tested the local high speed charge. On longer journeys the SatNav does indicate when you will need a recharge and where the closest charge points are- will also tell you if they are available and working.

The Tesla engineer who installed our Powerwall a couple of years ago arrived in a Model S and thought it was nice enough but could not get the thought that it was an iPad with a car attached from my mind so dismissed it as an option.

Get a Jag!

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by RichMB

But if the alternative is splashing the cash on a petrol/diesel, what's your view then? I agree that the EV market is about to explode and that progress will be rapid, but I think that in five years that will probably still apply.

Your quite right about on going combustion car use, but for us anyways the EV already dose all the major miles, and my wife doesn't mind her hybrid Lexus. I personally couldn't go back to using a combustion car daily, I was in mates diesel series recently, 'agricultural' is the best way to describe the drive train, especially around town.

From the finance view actually deprecation is by far the biggest cost to car ownership, a 5 year old 335i would loss alot is in depreciation than a new Model 3. Equally our Lexus is currently only doing 5k per year, thats barely over £600 a year on fuel, and with it been £20/VED, a new Model 3 luxury car tax payment is more!!

However when I see reviews like this I am tempted to try and persuade my wife to swap the Lexus for a Model 3. Point to point on public roads I cannot see anything you can buy been any quicker, the lack of 'drama' Tiff complains about is more AWD/amazing TC on the Tesla than anything else. I don't miss the noise or the gears in the my 335i, but I do miss the playful back end, and the respect you had to give the loud pedal when exiting a corner with bad camber/rain.

The AWD system on our X is perfect for family duties, blistering quick, safe, predictable, all the stuff you want when ferrying around the brood, but for final bit of adrenaline you need RWD, hence I personally would order a RWD big battery Model 3 rather than the AWD version even though AWD is quicker without doubt.