[Alscoob]

Originally Posted by muffking

Just to give you an update re the claim.
BMW UK have got involved, so I will be very careful what I say on here so as not to affect the claim adversely. So far they have been very supportive by getting me back on the road and offering to inspect the car. I won't say too much at this stage, other than to say that their customer service at such a worrying time has been admirable.

I do hope that they take ultimate charge of the claim so I'm not at the mercy of my insurers in case they under value the car, but time will tell. In the mean time I hope to continue as a BMW owner and sing their praise once concluded.

That's very good news to hear especially considering what you have just gone through.

Well done BMW and I hope they continue to give you the support you deserve as a loyal customer.

[RobUK]

OP - really sorry for your ordeal, I can't imagine what it must be like to sit at the side of the road watching your car on fire. Really hope you get a speedy and successful outcome.

[Londoner]

+1
Bad luck mate, can't be statistically common these days, you obviously got very unlucky. :/ Will be interesting to see how BMW UK respond.

[muffking]

Well it's gone back to BMW now. Probably the last time I'll see it ever again.
Looks fine from the back. What a great car it was :-(

[muffking]

Update:

BMW came back to me accepting liability and pointing the finger to the EGR cooler as the cause.

The state of play is now battling with them over the value as I was surprised how they are massively undervaluing the car.
I've pre written out a reply to them with links and examples of cars on their site and on Autotrader, but they don't think so far that heated memory seats, rear cam, Pro Nav, blue brakes & 19"s actually add to it's "Market Value"???

[C320]

Originally Posted by muffking

Update:

BMW came back to me accepting liability and pointing the finger to the EGR cooler as the cause.

The state of play is now battling with them over the value as I was surprised how they are massively undervaluing the car.
I've pre written out a reply to them with links and examples of cars on their site and on Autotrader, but they don't think so far that heated memory seats, rear cam, Pro Nav, blue brakes & 19"s actually add to it's "Market Value"???

Keep pushing them - they will always try that trick on about the options.

Try to find some similar spec Approved Used Cars on the BMW site and use that as your benchmark. Often they mark some of the as high spec, so print out examples of those too.

Good luck, sounds like you're going about it the right way still.

[AdmiralGant]

Sad end to the car, but at least everyone is ok.

I do wonder if BMW will simply offer you the trade in value of the car or what you may expect to achieve in a private sale, as you will never get more had you of tried to sell it. Your own insurance company will be obliged to offer you the cost for you to replace the vehicle at a respectable retail garage, which is likely to be more. The Financial Ombudsman ruled this a few years back.

If your insurers are involved, they may be a better route and in turn they will recover the majority of the claim payment back from BMW in your place under the policy terms.

Your insurance policy may also have an extension to cover personal belongings and I would argue any fuel you could not salvage is a loss to you and claimable on the policy. There is probably a limit of £100 ish.

Extras fitted however make bugger all difference to the second hand market value, it is usually the other way round, so a bad colour or leather colour may detract value.

I see a few folk suggested previously keeping quiet about the recall issue ( this appears to be water under the bridge now) but insurers are wise as to what cars in the market place are (or have been) subject to recalls. I know as I work for a number of them.

Hope you are soon motoring again.

[muffking]

Originally Posted by AdmiralGant

I do wonder if BMW will simply offer you the trade in value of the car or what you may expect to achieve in a private sale, as you will never get more had you of tried to sell it. Your own insurance company will be obliged to offer you the cost for you to replace the vehicle at a respectable retail garage, which is likely to be more. The Financial Ombudsman ruled this a few years back.

Thanks.
Thing is it's not as if I am or was going to sell the car, so I don't plan on accepting that as their argument, although they did state the offer should be "Market Value"

Re the insurance company, they're in the loop and on standby at the moment. Any gain by bringing them in may be offset by the £500 excess and any future hikes following me for the next 5 years on car, bike and as a named driver on the wife's insurance.

My main gripe with the current offer is that I'm without a car due to a defect of their making, so I shouldn't be made to left out of pocket.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by muffking

Thanks.
Thing is it's not as if I am or was going to sell the car, so I don't plan on accepting that as their argument, although they did state the offer should be "Market Value"

Re the insurance company, they're in the loop and on standby at the moment. Any gain by bringing them in may be offset by the £500 excess and any future hikes following me for the next 5 years on car, bike and as a named driver on the wife's insurance.

My main gripe with the current offer is that I'm without a car due to a defect of their making, so I shouldn't be made to left out of pocket.

The principle of insurance is that there should be no betterment but equally you shouldn’t be out of pocket. So I would tell BMW that if that applies to insurance it should apply to their compensation which ought to be covered by the public and products liability insurance, and would they like to settle nicely or shall you include a claim for stress and disturbance caused by their crap product. Would have thought one of the ambulance chasers will write a nice letter to that effect if needs be...

[RobUK]

If I were BMW the way I'd be looking at it is this - here we have a customer who has suffered the ordeal of being stranded at the side of the road having to watch our product go up in flames to the extent that it is no longer fit for purpose, potentially having been put at risk by the incident and at the very least having to suffer the inconvenience of the whole matter over an extended period (no car, alternative transport, paperwork, phone calls, stress, loss of confidence in the product, etc.).

While BMW may not be obliged to pay out for an equivalent replacement, if they have any moral backbone at all they should be saying to themselves that this customer deserves better for what he and his family have been through as a result of a problem of their own design, and at the very least 'make him whole again' with a replacement vehicle of equal or even better value/spec. Given that the cost will be met at least in part by insurance(?), then surely the net cost to BMW is but a drop in the ocean for them?

As many have said before, the true measure of a company when things go wrong is how they fix it.

[muffking]

Originally Posted by RobUK

If I were BMW the way I'd be looking at it is this - here we have a customer who has suffered the ordeal of being stranded at the side of the road having to watch our product go up in flames to the extent that it is no longer fit for purpose, potentially having been put at risk by the incident and at the very least having to suffer the inconvenience of the whole matter over an extended period (no car, alternative transport, paperwork, phone calls, stress, loss of confidence in the product, etc.).

While BMW may not be obliged to pay out for an equivalent replacement, if they have any moral backbone at all they should be saying to themselves that this customer deserves better for what he and his family have been through as a result of a problem of their own design, and at the very least 'make him whole again' with a replacement vehicle of equal or even better value/spec. Given that the cost will be met at least in part by insurance(?), then surely the net cost to BMW is but a drop in the ocean for them?

As many have said before, the true measure of a company when things go wrong is how they fix it.

That is a very well put and inspirational post. I'll be saving that for my response if they refuse to increase.
In the mean time I'm going to post my as yet unsent response to see if anyone has any alterations they think I should make.

[muffking]

So this is what I've written down in a Doc before I send it to the guy looking after my claim at BMW. I've removed links to Ads.
Let me know if you have any suggestions or alteration you think I should make.


Hi.
Thanks again for getting back to me. My first thoughts with the offer are that it is well below the actual market value of my car. Having searched for 2013 330D M-Sports with around 80,000 miles on Autotrader, prices start from around £13,000, therefore I would not be able to replace my car for less than this as a minimum.

As an example the link below shows one of the cheapest 2013 330D M-Sports I could find on Autotrader. For £13k it is the same year, but the mileage is 9,000 miles higher and the spec is far below i.e. no heated seats, no memory seat function, has standard 18” wheels, non M-performance brakes, halogen headlights (not xenon), no SatNav. The list goes on.
In short this shows that for comparison at the bottom end of the price range based on mileage, engine size, year and model, it is not possible to find an equivalent car for anywhere around the initial offer.


To help you further appreciate the value of my car, it is of a very high spec with many additional options such as Widescreen Pro Nav, Active Bi-Xenon headlights, Electric heated memory seats, Heated rear seats, 19” alloys, M-Performance brakes, Reverse camera and Self parking to name a few.
All of these options will have been added at a cost and therefore help maintain a reasonable value of the car and cannot therefore be compared to a similar model of a much lower spec. In the same way that service history, mileage and model designation affect market value, so does it’s spec. I therefore would not accept a lower spec version as a direct comparison.

Carrying on the Autotrader search all the way to £14k reveals a long list of 330D M-Sports, none of which have anywhere near the spec I had, although the mileage does start to come down, which I believe would offset the difference in value. Therefore I would be looking for £14k to replace my car with the nearest equivalent if purchased outside of the BMW network.
In addition, non BMW approved dealers are listing the same model, year & mileage at £15k - See ******

In relation to a subsequent search via BMWs used car network, Sytner ****** have one with an almost similar spec (Reg. for reference ******) for £15,500.

In summary, my searches on Autotrader, independent retailers and your own used car network confirm that the Market Value of my car is at least £14,000, therefore this is the figure that I would expect on that basis, although I would be happy to go through the BMW used car network, maintaining the car with BMW going forwards.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by muffking

So this is what I've written down in a Doc before I send it to the guy looking after my claim at BMW. I've removed links to Ads.
Let me know if you have any suggestions or alteration you think I should make.


Hi.
Thanks again for getting back to me. My first thoughts with the offer are that it is well below the actual market value of my car. Having searched for 2013 330D M-Sports with around 80,000 miles on Autotrader, prices start from around £13,000, therefore I would not be able to replace my car for less than this as a minimum.

As an example the link below shows one of the cheapest 2013 330D M-Sports I could find on Autotrader. For £13k it is the same year, but the mileage is 9,000 miles higher and the spec is far below i.e. no heated seats, no memory seat function, has standard 18” wheels, non M-performance brakes, halogen headlights (not xenon), no SatNav. The list goes on.
In short this shows that for comparison at the bottom end of the price range based on mileage, engine size, year and model, it is not possible to find an equivalent car for anywhere around the initial offer.


To help you further appreciate the value of my car, it is of a very high spec with many additional options such as Widescreen Pro Nav, Active Bi-Xenon headlights, Electric heated memory seats, Heated rear seats, 19” alloys, M-Performance brakes, Reverse camera and Self parking to name a few.
All of these options will have been added at a cost and therefore help maintain a reasonable value of the car and cannot therefore be compared to a similar model of a much lower spec. In the same way that service history, mileage and model designation affect market value, so does it’s spec. I therefore would not accept a lower spec version as a direct comparison.

Carrying on the Autotrader search all the way to £14k reveals a long list of 330D M-Sports, none of which have anywhere near the spec I had, although the mileage does start to come down, which I believe would offset the difference in value. Therefore I would be looking for £14k to replace my car with the nearest equivalent if purchased outside of the BMW network.
In addition, non BMW approved dealers are listing the same model, year & mileage at £15k - See ******

In relation to a subsequent search via BMWs used car network, Sytner ****** have one with an almost similar spec (Reg. for reference ******) for £15,500.

In summary, my searches on Autotrader, independent retailers and your own used car network confirm that the Market Value of my car is at least £14,000, therefore this is the figure that I would expect on that basis, although I would be happy to go through the BMW used car network, maintaining the car with BMW going forwards.

I think I would add about not wanting betterment but equally not wanting to be worse off as a result of a vehicle clearly not fit for purpose self combusting. I would also point out that a settlement at £15k (give yourself some negotiation room) allows nothing for the time, stress and hassle that has been caused by your car going up in flames.

And close by saying that obviously you would like to settle amicably and stay within the BMW family, but if they aren’t forthcoming with a reasonable response you will have get legal advice...

I deal with insurance claims at work - creates more impact when it looks like the claimant knows legal basis for claim and is happy to go legal if needed...

Good luck.

PS you might labour point a bit on cars available... I would go something like...

Here are some cars that are reasonable alternatives, starting with very basic cars with similar mileage and age but low spec through to dealer cars with similar spec and mileage.

List them quickly...

Then sum up. They won’t change offer based on cars you show but will based on pressure it sounds like you will put on them...

[muffking]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Then sum up. They won’t change offer based on cars you show but will based on pressure it sounds like you will put on them...

Great follow up, thanks, it makes perfect sense.

I'll look for a short list of cars to copy and paste links for, but here's my amendment based on your suggestions:-

Hi.
Thanks again for getting back to me. My first thoughts with your initial offer are that it is well below my vehicles actual Market Value and I would not accept being worse off as a result of a vehicle clearly not fit for purpose by self combusting.

Having searched for similar vehicles on Autotrader, prices start from around £15,000, therefore I would not be able to replace my car for less than this as a minimum.

Here are some cars that are reasonable alternatives, starting with very basic cars with similar mileage and age but low spec through to dealer cars with similar spec and mileage:-

- (Insert examples here)
-
-

In summary, my searches on Autotrader, independent retailers and your own used car network confirm that the Market Value of my car is £15,000, therefore this is the figure that I would expect on that basis, although I would be happy to go through the BMW used car network, maintaining the car with BMW going forwards. I would also like point out that a settlement at £15k is for the vehicles value, not including the time, stress and hassle that has been caused watching my car go up in flames.

I would like to settle amicably and stay within the BMW family, but if an offer of my vehicles true Market Value is not forthcoming then I will have get legal advice.

Yours sincerely

[speedski]

Tell them you'll take the sytner one and you will leave them to negotiate the price

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by speedski

Tell them you'll take the sytner one and you will leave them to negotiate the price

That’s a very good approach - when we are sorting insurance claims with customers we would much rather give them a replacement than the cash if we can...

[muffking]

Originally Posted by speedski

Tell them you'll take the sytner one and you will leave them to negotiate the price

Cheers, I'll emphasise that point. It would make a decent alternative. I'm replacing a tourer, but I could live with a saloon as I'm in an F30 hire car at the moment. I couldn't carry all the stuff I take on motorcycle track days though as theres no chance of shoe horning a generator in the boot let alone all the other stuff I take.

The Sytner one is quite nice though. I'd be losing the rear cam, self parking, heated rear seats and the loading space of a tourer, but I would be gaining Harmon Kardon, lane assist and a heated steering wheel.

[muffking]

Update:-
Good news. BMW have agreed to pay for the one at Sytner Chigwell in full.
Thanks for all your help and support guys. I've since been contacted by the dealer, who is waiting for BMW to transfer the funds so they can release the car to me and arrange delivery as it's a 300 mile round trip for me and I don't really need to see the car as I've already seen what I need to know on their website.

One thing I didn't spot though is that I lose electric memory seats, but I'll take that one on the chin.

Few questions though:-
They're offering 3 years GAP insurance for £550. Opinions i.e. is that a reasonable price for a 5 year £15k car?
They're also offering a type of ceramic coating and interior Scotch Guard for £600. Again, opinions.

Finally, does this look like it has power folding mirrors as the button looks blank and it's not mentioned in the spec, but mine never had the button for the mirrors at all?

[JD6]

Congratulations. A well-deserved outcome from your perseverance. BMW shouldn't have made it so difficult, given their culpability, but they did the right thing in the end.

That looks the same as my folding mirror button.

GAP sounds expensive and the coating / Scotch Guard is wildly overpriced. Avoid!

[Digidick]

Yep folding mirrors I'd say and get them coded so they fold on locking.

If I was to have a ceramic coating I'd be using a proper detailing company and at that cost I reckon you could get the whole car done to a far superior standard as well.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by muffking

Update:-
Good news. BMW have agreed to pay for the one at Sytner Chigwell in full.
Thanks for all your help and support guys. I've since been contacted by the dealer, who is waiting for BMW to transfer the funds so they can release the car to me and arrange delivery as it's a 300 mile round trip for me and I don't really need to see the car as I've already seen what I need to know on their website.

One thing I didn't spot though is that I lose electric memory seats, but I'll take that one on the chin.

Few questions though:-
They're offering 3 years GAP insurance for £550. Opinions i.e. is that a reasonable price for a 5 year £15k car?
They're also offering a type of ceramic coating and interior Scotch Guard for £600. Again, opinions.

Finally, does this look like it has power folding mirrors as the button looks blank and it's not mentioned in the spec, but mine never had the button for the mirrors at all?

Good outcome, fair all round.

I would take GAP for £300, and not bother with the other stuff, then go straight to a reputable detailed and spend £600 on a good job!

[DB118D]

You'll get GAP from the likes of ALA, Frank Pickles etc way cheaper than £500

And save the £600 for Scotchguard and get a decent detailer to do it properly