[quikM2]

Just grabbed a 2018 340i xdrive and the car does not handle the way it should considering it's supposed to come with a 'track' handling package. If you're listening BMW blue calipers don't qualify as representative of a 'handling' upgrade. Anyway so through my research and the budget I want to work with as yes KW clubsports for $4k would be unreal I am seeing the best bang for the buck compromise looking like pairing dinan or ACS springs with the dinan shockware. keeps the adaptive dampers and lowers the car and improves feel and handling all around that works for a winter and summer setup. or there is the very popular Bilstein B14 option. Slightly more money for adjustability and I would assume a slight upgrade in terms of feel and handling for an extra $500 or so.

If you have one of the above mentioned setups please tell me your impressions as i want to choose between one or the other shortly. I will also be swapping the stock 19 inch rims with lighter wheels and replacing the absolutely horrible bridgestone RFT with MP4S non RFT's. Please suggest a suspension setup that you feel is the ultimate compromise between daily driving but getting rid of bouncy bodyroll for around that $1k mark.

[Genieman]

Same boat as you. Unfortunately, what you're going to end up getting, instead of a compare and contrast from people who have experienced both setups, is people touting their own setup who haven't experienced the other option. Not exactly an unbiased, educated response.

[FaRKle!]

Your goals aren't that clear IMO and what level of "comfort" people deem acceptable for daily driving varies. What level of compromise are you looking for? Do you care more for one or the other? What kind of surfaces do you typically drive one, ect.

I've gone from the Adaptive M suspension, to Adaptive M with Dinan shockware, to Adaptive M with Dinan shockware and Eibach springs, to a bespoke suspension setup and aren't quite sure how to answer your question that would really satisfy what you're after. I've also spent a considerable amount of time testing B14s on a very similar car as mine.

[dr.roro]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

Your goals aren't that clear IMO and what level of "comfort" people deem acceptable for daily driving varies. What level of compromise are you looking for? Do you care more for one or the other? What kind of surfaces do you typically drive one, ect.

I've gone from the Adaptive M suspension, to Adaptive M with Dinan shockware, to Adaptive M with Dinan shockware and Eibach springs, to a bespoke suspension setup and aren't quite sure how to answer your question that would really satisfy what you're after. I've also spent a considerable amount of time testing B14s on a very similar car as mine.

As someone with Adaptive M suspension currently, and looking to possibly make an upgrade on my daily driver (that is also starting to see some novice track days), can you provide some feedback on your impressions of each stepwise upgrade? I'm also thinking of Dinan springs/Shockware vs. M Performance suspension vs. coilovers.

[quikM2]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

Your goals aren't that clear IMO and what level of "comfort" people deem acceptable for daily driving varies. What level of compromise are you looking for? Do you care more for one or the other? What kind of surfaces do you typically drive one, ect.

I've gone from the Adaptive M suspension, to Adaptive M with Dinan shockware, to Adaptive M with Dinan shockware and Eibach springs, to a bespoke suspension setup and aren't quite sure how to answer your question that would really satisfy what you're after. I've also spent a considerable amount of time testing B14s on a very similar car as mine.

I would think you would be one of the best people to answer my questions as you did such a staged progression. My goals are to improve handling over stock, improve feel, limit body roll while maintaining daily driver functionality and without getting into too many adjustments like camber and bushings and endlinks. I want something straightforward and simple without adjustability that is in the middle. Lower but not slammed, stiff and tight but not jarring. budget around $1200. Also I would appreciate if nobody came back with the 'that is subjective' comment. Of course it is because unless you can plug into my brain and know exactly what I feel is improved handling and what is stiff vs. not stiff it's impossible. It's a useless comment so feel free to just tell me your impressions and comparables and I will work off that. As to stiffness I had an M2 and it was brilliant fixed suspension. I don't find sport setting too stiff but I do find the car bouncy and the body roll stock on xdrive is ridiculous. My roads suck so i can't get too carried away as I drive on a lot of bumps and cracks and uneven pavement so a responsive suspension that soak all that up with becoming unbalanced or upset is key. Your impressions on all your setups especially the shockware on its own and then the shockware with the springs and finally the B14's would be great!

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by quikM2

I would think you would be one of the best people to answer my questions as you did such a staged progression. My goals are to improve handling over stock, improve feel, limit body roll while maintaining daily driver functionality and without getting into too many adjustments like camber and bushings and endlinks. I want something straightforward and simple without adjustability that is in the middle. Lower but not slammed, stiff and tight but not jarring. budget around $1200. Also I would appreciate if nobody came back with the 'that is subjective' comment. Of course it is because unless you can plug into my brain and know exactly what I feel is improved handling and what is stiff vs. not stiff it's impossible. It's a useless comment so feel free to just tell me your impressions and comparables and I will work off that. As to stiffness I had an M2 and it was brilliant fixed suspension. I don't find sport setting too stiff but I do find the car bouncy and the body roll stock on xdrive is ridiculous. My roads suck so i can't get too carried away as I drive on a lot of bumps and cracks and uneven pavement so a responsive suspension that soak all that up with becoming unbalanced or upset is key. Your impressions on all your setups especially the shockware on its own and then the shockware with the springs and finally the B14's would be great!

If the budget is the most important constraint ...

- Dinan Shockware will be the most practical step forward without investing too much money with multiple suspension changes

Dinan Shockware will turn Comfort setting into Sport and Sport into a more controlled (stiffer) setting.

Your x-Drive suspension has plenty of travel (compression and rebound) to accommodate poor road conditions.

Lowering is a different goal all together and will most likely exceed the target budget of $1.2K (CAD or USD?).

Installing lowering springs with OEM softer shocks will not yield desired results as softer shocks will not manage spring oscillations well. The more expensive option is to replace OEM M Adaptive shocks with Bilstein B6 Damptronic shocks which are designed to work with OEM springs. The vehicle will not be lowered however.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Bilstein...Drive-EDC.html

Set of 4 is $1.7K.

To lower the vehicle while maintaining comfortable ride independent rebound and compression controls will give the opportunity to tune suspension behavior to your specifications.

This is a more expensive option:

- Coilovers with independent rebound and compression controls (KW V3 is a good starting point for research. The lowering range might be too low for Canadian roads and snow)
- Add $: 4 wheel alignment
- Add $: EDC cancellation kit (disables M Adaptive ECU functionality) or coding out EDC functionality

I also suggest to research Ohlins R&T coilovers which can be set to near OEM height.

[andino]

All good points above! But replace Ohlins with something from Bilstein simply because Ohlins isn't xdrive compatible.

[andino]

Also I'll add that Farkie's setup is much more compliant over rough roads and daily driving than my b14s. Since you're running adaptive suspension, I'd likely opt to stay with a set of lowering springs to retain that functionality. Farkie did a lot of testing on adaptive dampers; including running them on a shock dyno to see what kind of range they have. They're more than capable of handling most lowering springs so you'll likely get the most bang for buck there.

Another option if you're looking for something more OEM is to use f8x springs with your adaptive dampers. You'll get a slight drop with a boost in spring rate over the adaptive suspension springs which are stiffer than the base springs despite being the same height as base suspension on xdrive cars.

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by andino

All good points above! But replace Ohlins with something from Bilstein simply because Ohlins isn't xdrive compatible.

https://rrtracing.com/i-807-ohlins-r...n-bmw-f30.html

For some reason, 340i xDrive is listed as a compatible vehicle. Perhaps something changed. Phone call to Ohilns would be a good next step.

[quikM2]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

https://rrtracing.com/i-807-ohlins-r...n-bmw-f30.html

For some reason, 340i xDrive is listed as a compatible vehicle. Perhaps something changed. Phone call to Ohilns would be a good next step.

I like all your points above but why didn't you touch on pairing shockware with the dinan springs. The car is stiffer and more responsive and lowered all for under $1200 CAD. I think the B14's for around $1500 meet all of those as well except you lose the adaptive functionality. KW 3's are more money I want to put towards a 3 series. The next M3 that FINALLY has AWD is my next car so this one is just to see me through so don't want to mess with it too much - But the current oem handling is that bad...

[quikM2]

Originally Posted by andino

Also I'll add that Farkie's setup is much more compliant over rough roads and daily driving than my b14s. Since you're running adaptive suspension, I'd likely opt to stay with a set of lowering springs to retain that functionality. Farkie did a lot of testing on adaptive dampers; including running them on a shock dyno to see what kind of range they have. They're more than capable of handling most lowering springs so you'll likely get the most bang for buck there.

Another option if you're looking for something more OEM is to use f8x springs with your adaptive dampers. You'll get a slight drop with a boost in spring rate over the adaptive suspension springs which are stiffer than the base springs despite being the same height as base suspension on xdrive cars.

Similar results with the ACS or dinan springs that seem very popular on here that work well with the oem shocks. I just thought might as well go dinan if doing the shockware as they obviously tuned the springs with that in mind. and the warranty thing is a small benefit but I doubt BMW makes an issue with lowering springs.

[andino]

Originally Posted by quikM2

Similar results with the ACS or dinan springs that seem very popular on here that work well with the oem shocks. I just thought might as well go dinan if doing the shockware as they obviously tuned the springs with that in mind. and the warranty thing is a small benefit but I doubt BMW makes an issue with lowering springs.

You'll want to confirm that Shockware is designed with their springs in mind. Maybe try just running dinan springs with stock tuning at first to see how you like it.

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by quikM2

I like all your points above but why didn't you touch on pairing shockware with the dinan springs. The car is stiffer and more responsive and lowered all for under $1200 CAD. I think the B14's for around $1500 meet all of those as well except you lose the adaptive functionality. KW 3's are more money I want to put towards a 3 series. The next M3 that FINALLY has AWD is my next car so this one is just to see me through so don't want to mess with it too much - But the current oem handling is that bad...

Introducing one change at a time with the least amount of investment would be an ideal approach.

1. Dinan Shockware first - no suspension geometry changes; no alignment
2. Add Dinan springs later if Shockware doesn't produce desired results: 30% stiffer; will lower the vehicle by 20mm front and rear. 4 wheel alignment recommended.

Lowering springs will put more wear and tear on the shock. It's inevitable but may not be a concern depending on how long you plan to keep the car.

[quikM2]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

Introducing one change at a time with the least amount of investment would be an ideal approach.

1. Dinan Shockware first - no suspension geometry changes; no alignment
2. Add Dinan springs later if Shockware doesn't produce desired results: 30% stiffer; will lower the vehicle by 20mm front and rear. 4 wheel alignment recommended.

Lowering springs will put more wear and tear on the shock. It's inevitable but may not be a concern depending on how long you plan to keep the car.

I can't see just the shockware being enough for me. It won't limit body roll that much and the car sits too high stock. I think shockware will translate more 'hurt' over the bad pavement but will not upset the suspension as much and be able to power. the only thing that has me hesitating is I read that comfort becomes the current sport mode. 90% of the time I drive in sport however there are certain side streets on my regular routes I take depending on traffic and they are so bad I always change to comfort and the difference is quite noticeable.

Does the 340 come with the M perf rear sway or is that also an upgrade? If I'm going to have to do an alignment after changing the springs I might as well do the rear sway at the same time and call it a day.

[andino]

Originally Posted by quikM2

I can't see just the shockware being enough for me. It won't limit body roll that much and the car sits too high stock. I think shockware will translate more 'hurt' over the bad pavement but will not upset the suspension as much and be able to power. the only thing that has me hesitating is I read that comfort becomes the current sport mode. 90% of the time I drive in sport however there are certain side streets on my regular routes I take depending on traffic and they are so bad I always change to comfort and the difference is quite noticeable.

Does the 340 come with the M perf rear sway or is that also an upgrade? If I'm going to have to do an alignment after changing the springs I might as well do the rear sway at the same time and call it a day.

Unless you car has the option on the your sheet, then you just have the standard bar. M performance upgrades are always extra

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by quikM2

Similar results with the ACS or dinan springs that seem very popular on here that work well with the oem shocks. I just thought might as well go dinan if doing the shockware as they obviously tuned the springs with that in mind. and the warranty thing is a small benefit but I doubt BMW makes an issue with lowering springs.

I'm very skeptical shockware was designed for Dinan springs. Especially since they just claim dampening rates were increased 15% and sport mode becomes comfort.

Originally Posted by quikM2

I can't see just the shockware being enough for me. It won't limit body roll that much and the car sits too high stock. I think shockware will translate more 'hurt' over the bad pavement but will not upset the suspension as much and be able to power. the only thing that has me hesitating is I read that comfort becomes the current sport mode. 90% of the time I drive in sport however there are certain side streets on my regular routes I take depending on traffic and they are so bad I always change to comfort and the difference is quite noticeable.

This is good info for understanding your needs/wants. When the car was stock I only drove the suspension in sport mode. I really had no use for comfort as it was just too uncontrolled. I thought sport mode was a pretty good "comfort" setting. Honestly, if you think you need the base comfort mode, neither B14s or shockware/stiffer springs will be cushier than that. You can have a suspension that settles much faster than the OE one, but not that will absorb the initial impacts as well at your price point.

I thought shockware on the stock springs was a really good point for a daily comfort mode. With shockware and Eibach springs, comfort mode was pretty good too, not quite as much so as before the springs, but enough so that I never thought about the OE springs/shockware/comfort mode again. That said, I felt that eibach springs/shockware/sport mode was too stiff for daily driving and never used it aside from the track or where I needed lots of compression force.

Based upon your statement above, B14s might not be comfortable enough for your daily driving, although that would be the best for body roll. You might want to try slightly stiffer springs first, and then shockware later if that's not satisfactory. I guess you need to ask yourself how much you're willing to compromise on those certain streets you drive regularly where you feel you need comfort mode.

[quikM2]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

This is good info for understanding your needs/wants. When the car was stock I only drove the suspension in sport mode. I really had no use for comfort as it was just too uncontrolled. I thought sport mode was a pretty good "comfort" setting. Honestly, if you think you need the base comfort mode, neither B14s or shockware/stiffer springs will be cushier than that. You can have a suspension that settles much faster than the OE one, but not that will absorb the initial impacts as well at your price point.

I thought shockware on the stock springs was a really good point for a daily comfort mode. With shockware and Eibach springs, comfort mode was pretty good too, not quite as much so as before the springs, but enough so that I never thought about the OE springs/shockware/comfort mode again. That said, I felt that eibach springs/shockware/sport mode was too stiff for daily driving and never used it aside from the track or where I needed lots of compression force.

Based upon your statement above, B14s might not be comfortable enough for your daily driving, although that would be the best for body roll. You might want to try slightly stiffer springs first, and then shockware later if that's not satisfactory. I guess you need to ask yourself how much you're willing to compromise on those certain streets you drive regularly where you feel you need comfort mode.

Great comments, thank you for the feedback. To clarify my priorities I would place body roll, handling and lowering before the slight comfort factor of the comfort mode on the those side streets. It's a "I have it so I use it" type of thing. If all I had was sport mode that would be more than fine. Sport mode however still gets upset due to too much travel or the spring rates etc. and if there was an option that kept the spine feel of sport but greatly improved handling overall and lowered the car a touch that would be well worth the compromise. Shockware and the springs seem to be a good value although dinan explicitly states their springs should be paired with their 'ride handling kit' which are some special bumpstops and a few odds and ends. They list it at 7 hours of labour however so to do dinan springs and the handling kit at BMW shop rates would be a ridiculous $1000 just for labour... so that part doesn't make much sense to me.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by quikM2

Shockware and the springs seem to be a good value although dinan explicitly states their springs should be paired with their 'ride handling kit' which are some special bumpstops and a few odds and ends. They list it at 7 hours of labour however so to do dinan springs and the handling kit at BMW shop rates would be a ridiculous $1000 just for labour... so that part doesn't make much sense to me.

Mfgs say a lot of things, and most of it is geared towards getting you to buy things you don't necessarily need. A lot of them are garbage marketing statements like "developed on the Nurburgring" where in actuality they just drove the car on the ring a couple of times and said "this feels acceptable." Not the "Oh we gathered accelerometer and vehicle data over multiple laps and iterations to really optimize things" that you'd think.

Another bump stop avenue to consider is using F8x bump stops. They're shorter than F3x, but maintain a similar spring rate. The "dinan" E39/E60 bump stops are much softer than F3x/F8x ones. I've run both the E60 and F8x ones in the rear, and I like the bit better roll support of the F8x ones. I've run stock, "dinan" E39/E60, and rear F8x bump stops.

Springs and bump stops is nowhere near 7hrs. It's a 4hr job if you know what you're doing and going at a leisurely pace. Yesterday I swapped my front springs for another iteration I'm trying, swapped my street brake pads back in (I was driving Laguna Seca Fri), and it took me 2.5hrs including setup and cleanup. Over the past few weeks I've done a couple of weeknight rear spring changes after work and those took me 1-1.5hrs including setup/cleanup.

[quikM2]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

Mfgs say a lot of things, and most of it is geared towards getting you to buy things you don't necessarily need. A lot of them are garbage marketing statements like "developed on the Nurburgring" where in actuality they just drove the car on the ring a couple of times and said "this feels acceptable." Not the "Oh we gathered accelerometer and vehicle data over multiple laps and iterations to really optimize things" that you'd think.

Another bump stop avenue to consider is using F8x bump stops. They're shorter than F3x, but maintain a similar spring rate. The "dinan" E39/E60 bump stops are much softer than F3x/F8x ones. I've run both the E60 and F8x ones in the rear, and I like the bit better roll support of the F8x ones. I've run stock, "dinan" E39/E60, and rear F8x bump stops.

Springs and bump stops is nowhere near 7hrs. It's a 4hr job if you know what you're doing and going at a leisurely pace. Yesterday I swapped my front springs for another iteration I'm trying, swapped my street brake pads back in (I was driving Laguna Seca Fri), and it took me 2.5hrs including setup and cleanup. Over the past few weeks I've done a couple of weeknight rear spring changes after work and those took me 1-1.5hrs including setup/cleanup.

Interesting... so you would consider swapping the bumpstops out for the dinan or the F8x a solid consideration rather than just leaving everything as is and just doing the springs?

I think I have made up my mind after reviewing all of this and the best overall solution with some compromise here and there is going to be the dinan springs matched with the shockware and lighter wheels with MP4S. I am hoping that will really transform the handling enough to not make me throw my hands up and wish I just did the B14's from the start.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by quikM2

Interesting... so you would consider swapping the bumpstops out for the dinan or the F8x a solid consideration rather than just leaving everything as is and just doing the springs?

If you're lowering I'd recommend going with shorter bump stops or chopping the OE ones to maintain enough damper travel before engagement. The OE bump stops engage pretty early on, and you'll want at least .75" damper travel before engagement. When I first installed my current Bilstein B6-based dampers (with Eibach springs) I did a travel check with the rear OE bump stops and found that at static ride height I was already engaging those bump stops. They're about 3.5" long, and the F8x and E60 rear ones are about 2.5" long.

[ScubaJ813]

I can confirm... Ohlins does not fit any xdrive F-series vehicle. I confirmed this with their BMW specialist, who is working on the E-series xdrive kit now, so F series will come... but much later.

I can't offer any feedback, but seems like there is quite a lack of options for Xdrive models. I haven't pulled the trigger yet but I am going to pick up the H&R coilovers myself. Add the sway bars and its a pretty complete kit for $2000. I'm stuck with the stock suspension which anything is going to be an upgrade...

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by ScubaJ813

I can confirm... Ohlins does not fit any xdrive F-series vehicle. I confirmed this with their BMW specialist, who is working on the E-series xdrive kit now, so F series will come... but much later.

I can't offer any feedback, but seems like there is quite a lack of options for Xdrive models. I haven't pulled the trigger yet but I am going to pick up the H&R coilovers myself. Add the sway bars and its a pretty complete kit for $2000. I'm stuck with the stock suspension which anything is going to be an upgrade...

You sure they won't work with adjustable or RWD end links? andino is running a set of RWD B14's on his xdrive car with adjustable end links.