[pierreye]

Originally Posted by Diirek

I have a set of Earthquake underseat woofers on the way. Once I get those installed I'll clear all of the EQ and tone adjustments in my iDrive and dive into the amp settings on my laptop. Do you know if there is a sound profile floating around and that I can load in and use as a base to start playing with? I don't have a mic and will be tuning by ear.

Try out this thread. Faveon tune is more popular for f30. Please note the type of speakers they are using for the tune. If it's different, the EQ and crossover might need to be modify to suit your equipment. Also, some of them are using different Match Amp but the latest software do allow the tune to be install in UP 7BMW. You need to double check the channel being assign to.

Sorry forgot the link.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...ight=Audiotech

[homeryen88]

SUMMARY OF THINGS I’VE LEARNED ALONG THE WAY –
As I am the OP, I wanted to thank all those who’ve responded. Keep sharing PNP options for the benefit of the forum members. I have successfully upgraded my HIFI system. And, as I close this chapter for myself, I will just share what I’ve gleaned along the way and what I had ultimately installed for myself.

1. The more one tries to learn about audio-related terminology and the calculus of matching amps to speakers, the more confusing it gets (unless you’re an audiophile/acoustical engineer) – like driving around in London for the very first time. Everything seems backwards. So, I feel that I’ve unnecessarily burned much mental energy. I now realize that I don’t need to be the pioneer on coming up with a solution on how to upgrade the F30 HIFI system with a PNP solution. Neither should you.

2. Regarding finding a PNP set up … likely, nothing wrong with buying a “full audio system” (amp/speakers/tweeters/underseat woofers) from just one retailer (whether that’s from a vendor like Bimmertech or Bavsound or Integral Audio or Audison or Musicar Certified) … each manufacturer ought to be engineering audio solutions where all their components (amp/speakers/tweeters/underseat woofers) play nicely with one another. Whichever system you purchase, it’ll probably sound miles better than the stock HIFI.

3. If you decide to piecemeal your system together –
a) I think most are agreeing that the Match Up 7BMW amp is a solid place to start due to its power output being able to handle whatever PNP car speakers you decide to install and due to its robust ability to tune / customize your listening experience regardless of what components you subsequently add.

b) Then, upgrade your underseat woofers. There is an active thread here about this specific topic - http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1311415. Caution: the contributions vary between informative to snarky to belligerent. And I’m not sure if everything being discussed on that thread is PNP (the purpose of my search). But every product mentioned is probably a product that someone on this forum has purchased and liked. That said, it seems that any of the PNP underseat woofers discussed are reasonably competitive in terms of quality, so you’ll probably be just fine selecting one of the lower-priced underseat woofers mentioned.

c) In terms of then upgrading the standalone speakers (front door; rear door; center dash) and tweeters (A-pillar), you can look to retailers like crutchfield.com and parts-express.com. I mention these two resources because their website has a search tool to find PNP options specific to the F30. BTW, if you are going to piecemeal, there are seemingly valid arguments out there that say that you only need to consider upgrading the amp, underseat woofers, and just the front door speakers and tweeters. Not much weight at all is given to upgrading the center dash speaker. And here are two articles that speak to why upgrading the rear door stock speakers provides little if no ROI:

Rear Speakers – a Benefit or a Bad Habit?
http://www.bestcaraudio.com/rear-speakers-a-benefit-or-a-bad-habit/

The Effects of Redundant Channels on Stereo Reproduction in a Vehicle Cabin (or, The Evils of Rear Speakers)
http://integralaudio.com/other_files/The%20Evils%20of%20Rear%20Speakers.pdf

4. Additionally, forum members comment that just purchasing a new amp and a pair of underseat woofers (and no other components) may very well be all the audio improvement you’ll need. So, think about starting with just these two upgrades; listen to your “new” sound; decide whether you want to splurge further. For more on this topic, you can peek at this thread:
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1538430&highlight=best+speakers

5. Most of us wouldn’t buy a car without test driving it. Most of us wouldn’t buy a pair of pants until trying them on. Can you somehow sit in someone’s car and listen to a PNP system already installed to try it on for size? It’s a high likelihood that most of us do buy an audio system sight unseen. But, you may feel less unease about investing $1000 - $3000 if you could find a nearby forum member that has already installed a system in which you are interested in getting for your F30.

6. But it’s also about finding a balance between quality and value. For myself, I don’t know if I’d be able to hear enough of a difference if sitting in one F30 that features (as an example) the Bavsound system and another that features the Audison system. Given that, I’d be fine selecting the system (or piecemeal components) that could be procured at a significant discount. So, if you see a listing for a previously owned Bavsound system that’ll save you several hundred dollars (instead of buying it brand new), that may be worth serious consideration. If you see a listing for a used Match UP 7BMW amplifier for $600 (keep in mind that a brand new one via Crutchfield is $1000), that may be worth serious consideration. Integral Audio (as of this writing) is clearing out their inventory to make room for a new generation of product, and you can get their current “full audio system” for $999 (instead of the full price of $1699). And that may be worth serious consideration. If you can exercise a bit of patience and keep an eye out for these opportunities, you can probably score a good deal instead of paying full retail.


If you’re wondering what I did (after reviewing all of the options):
1. I did happen upon a listing on Ebay for a used Match UP 7BMW amp for $650. It was just what I was seeking and the price was right for me. Again, the retail price for a new unit would be $1000 (via Crutchfield). So, I ‘feel’ that I saved $350 on this find. BTW, per the many threads on this topic, I also did download the LIMOUSINE file to tune the amp.

2. Then, based on other forum threads, I opted to get the Earthquake Sound SWS-8Xi underseat 8” 2-ohm woofers. I’m not saying that they are the absolute best. But they are likely competitive alongside the many other underseat woofers that have been espoused. However, I do believe that these Earthquakes seem like the “best value” purchase available. I found the pair (new) on Ebay for a very reasonable $217. I also found on Ebay a pair of accompanying TechnicPNP-clone gaskets/rings for $20. If I were to get the pair of Earthquakes on Amazon, it would cost $260; if I were to get the TechnicPNP originals, that would be $65. So, I ‘feel’ that I saved almost $100 with this find.

3. With the money saved so far, I decided to splurge on high-end speakers by FOCAL. Why this brand? Since I have zero experience in this area, I started a conversation with a sales consultant at Crutchfield regarding a high-end PNP solution. The rep that connected with me was enthused about the FOCAL INSIDE series (http://www.focal- inside.com/bmw/en/bmw-3-series-sedan-2012-2018-f30/).

4. Then, turning to Ebay, I happily stumbled upon a high-end audio online retailer (audio_for_fun) that sold these FOCAL INSIDE components priced 30%-40% less than what you’d find at Crutchfield (probably because Crutchfield is an authorized FOCAL dealer and audio_for_fun is not, so there may be some risk purchasing from a non-AD).

5. I purchased the FOCAL INSIDE IS BMW 100L 2-WAY 4" KIT, P'n'P (these include the speakers for the front door as well as the tweeters for the A-pillar along with the accompanying crossovers and mounting hardware). Including shipping costs, the investment was $330 (versus $500 via Crutchfield) - so I ‘feel’ that I saved $170 with this find.

6. And despite those articles that point out that upgrading the rear speakers provides very little ROI, I decided to do that anyway. So, I purchased the FOCAL INSIDE IC BMW 100L COAXIAL 4" PAIR, P'n'P. This is identical to the aforementioned FOCAL IS BMW 100L kit but minus the tweeters. Including shipping costs, the investment was $200 (versus $380 via Crutchfield) - so I ‘feel’ that I saved $180 with this find.

7. I decided to leave the center dashboard speaker as-is.

8. So, what could’ve have been a $2200+ investment (whether going piecemeal or going with an all-inclusive system from a company like Bavsound/Bimmertech/Audison/FOCAL/Musicar/Integral Audio) was kept down to a manageable $1400’ish. I am certainly happy about that!


AM I HAPPY WITH THE SOUND IMPROVEMENT?
1. Yes, I am. But, passing judgment purely based on your senses can only result in a subjective opinion. My wife likes food with a hint of vinegar, and I don’t. My son likes gloss black and I prefer matte black. So, while I do think that the audio system and sound has been upgraded, I can’t really explain why beyond, “yes it does sound better”.

2. To really talk about how these various components might be enhancing the listening experience, I probably should’ve installed the new amp first and then listened and taken notes. Then, add in the underseat woofers, listened, and taken notes. Then finally add the remaining components, listened, and taken notes. But, I had an installer tackle this project so the car had all the new upgrades in place when I took delivery.

3. I can say that every article about amps does say that getting a really good one will elevate your music experience. And from a PNP point of view, every forum member seems to give the thumbs-up to the Match Up 7BMW.

4. I can also say that with the Earthquake underseat woofers installed, I definitely do hear AND FEEL more bass. This especially comes through when playing bass-heavy R&B music. So, I definitely recommend upgrading from the stock underseat woofers (I’m not necessarily saying that you need to get this particular brand, but I am saying that the stock underseat woofers sound incredibly weak now that I have something else in place).

5. I can also say that I can hear a difference with the upgraded FOCAL components. This is especially true with classical music as you can better discern the instruments within an orchestra.

6. The only way for you to decide if you like the improvement enough to shell out $1400+, though, is to literally sit in my car and listen for a minute; then jump into another F30 with the stock hi-fi system playing the same song. Contact me if you are ever in the area. And, you are certainly welcome to treat your ears to some beautiful sounds.

Best wishes to you on your PNP quest. Turn up the sound. And Mod On!

[pierreye]

Before you sign off, I personally feel the center channel is more important than rear channel. Reason is UP 7BMW DSP for RealCenter is pretty good and help the center imaging for stereo source.

[J555]

Originally Posted by pierreye

Before you sign off, I personally feel the center channel is more important than rear channel.

I think the same...

[homeryen88]

Hello ...

Ok! I will definitely take your word for it.

And, the center channel unit is just $130 through this Ebay non-AD (audio_for_fun). Thanks for the contribution!

[howe9191]

Hi bros, need ur advice if this amp is PnP for F30 676 HiFi.

I believe this comes from 2 series HK Setup.

[Pogo99]

I wanted to share my experience with HiFi upgrade to my 2017 330i. I found a lightly used JBL DSP4086 on Ebay with near complete PNP harness. I used the 4 input channels to drive all 7 OEM speakers and an additional Bazooka passive sub in the trunk storage compartment. The JBL software was not highly intuitive but very flexible after figuring it out. My investment was $450 and roughly 4 hours to install and tune. The next result is a significant improvement in sound range, amplitude, and definition.

Let me know if any further detail is of interest.

[bigdnno98]

Originally Posted by howe9191

Hi bros, need ur advice if this amp is PnP for F30 676 HiFi.

I believe this comes from 2 series HK Setup.

If I'm not mistaken, the hifi speakers are 2 ohm and some of the HK are 8 ohm, meaning a 2ohm load on the HK amp will prob be bad for it.

[Billfitz]

Hi-fi are all 4 ohm. I don't know about the doors but the HK under seat are 8 ohm. Whether the HK will handle 4 ohms would be in the specification sheet, if there is one, but I haven't been able to find it.

[J555]

The HK mids and tweeters in F3x are all 4 ohm. Not sure about 2-series, though.

[MTB Don]

Kept it simple; BimmerTech amp and Focal speakers. Moving on from F30 shortly. May have Bimmertech amp available in a few months.

[Pogo99]

I have a real basic question. For the front door speakers on F30, the mid range and the tweeter are interconnected, and driven by a common input. Is there a physical crossover between them or are they both intended to operate at high frequency?

[J555]

Originally Posted by Pogo99

I have a real basic question. For the front door speakers on F30, the mid range and the tweeter are interconnected, and driven by a common input. Is there a physical crossover between them or are they both intended to operate at high frequency?

Most BMW tweeters include crossover capacitors in the connection wiring. The only exceptions I am aware of are front/center B&W diamond tweeters, and B&O individual tweeters that is powered by a dedicated amp channel. The top-tier audio systems (not in F30) also include so-called "frequency diplexers" that are active crossovers for mids in the front doors.

[Pogo99]

Great input - much appreciated. I just wanted to ensure I was not over driving the tweeter. For anyone interested, this is Bazooka BT6024DVC I added. I am driving both coils from common output on the DSP and it provides great fill below the under seat subs.

[Pogo99]

One related follow up question. Is the oem HiFi center speaker a single cone or does it also have a separate tweeter with crossover?

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by Pogo99

I have a real basic question. For the front door speakers on F30, the mid range and the tweeter are interconnected, and driven by a common input. Is there a physical crossover between them or are they both intended to operate at high frequency?

The original OEM setup doesn’t have crossovers between the midranges and tweeters. It only has a cheap NPE capacitor that keeps the midrange out of the tweeters. It doesn’t do a very good job of it, leading to distortion. There’s no filtering on the midranges to keep the high frequencies out of them, so literally a quarter of the high frequencies are lost going to the midranges that can't reproduce them.

This third order high pass filter is sixteen times more effective than a single capacitor in blocking midrange from the tweeters.



The low pass filter is second order. By using a third order high pass with a second order low pass polarity issues are avoided.



These are the parts:

8.2uf cap: https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton...acitor-027-426

20uF cap: https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton...acitor-027-436

0.1mH coil: https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton...r-Coil-257-020

0.2mH coil: https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton...r-Coil-257-024

These filters tap into the wiring to the drivers. The tweeters normally plug into the midranges, so you have to create a ‘Y’ in the wire leading to each midrange. One leg of the wire goes to the low pass filter and then to the midrange, the other goes to the high pass filter and then to the tweeter. The capacitor on the factory wire between the midrange and tweeter is discarded. The components can be hot melt glued and plastic zip tied to perf boards for placement in the doors.
https://www.parts-express.com/Red-Pe....5-x-5-260-180

Note that these component values are specific to the Hi-Fi system. They'll work with any 4 ohm drivers, but I can't say what the impedance is for the base, H-K and other options.

[Pogo99]

Great input - much appreciated. Can you confirm if the center dash speaker has a separate tweeter on 2017 F30?

[Billfitz]

I don't have a 2017 F30 so I can't say. Mine did not have a tweeter, so I added one, with a crossover of course. I didn't go to great lengths mounting the tweeter, I just set it in a 'bird's nest' of foam, and it's been fine. I used one of these, which I also put into the rear doors: https://www.amazon.com/JBL-Premium-0...7QMWLPFS&psc=1

This is a newer version: https://www.amazon.com/JBL-CLUB750T-..._t2_B07QMWLPFS

[Pogo99]

Thanks again Bill. I pulled the grill and confirmed there is no tweeter. Great option to add one. Your approach to add additional tweeters to the rear doors is an excellent idea as well.

[Billfitz]

The location for the tweeter holes are embossed on the inside of the liners. Mounting the JBL tweeters is a snap. This is one of mine:



I wrapped the bezel with silver vinyl wrap to match the trim on the midranges.

[Pogo99]

Really sharp installation Bill. Were the door liners difficult to remove and reinstall? U have done this on other vehicles and encountered issues like broken parts and incomplete re-engagement of snap fit clips.

[Billfitz]

The liners are easy to pull. There's a couple of screws that go through the door handles, otherwise it's all snap connectors. The key to not breaking those is to use at least two plastic trim removal wedges to spread the prying pressure about. While you're in there it can't hurt to add more sound damping material. I pretty much covered mine with this stuff, avoiding those spots where the attaching clips are.
https://www.amazon.com/Noico-deadeni...ef_=ast_sto_dp