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      08-05-2020, 07:52 PM   #1
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Did some data logging from 3rd gear 2000 rpm to redline. Not sure what to look for tho lol. Maybe someone can help me.

Recently went to stage 2 93 oct. I have a FTP charge pipe a CTF intercooler, AEM air intake, Wagner high flow downpipe. It feels faster but I feel like there should've been more of a jump in performance. The parts were expensive lol.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f2b...0b435eae16a362


https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f2b...0b435f34cb1326


https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f2b...90c641c9357f2e

Thanks
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      08-05-2020, 08:24 PM   #2
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You're in luck as i did a writeup just for this purpose. Read here:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1732327
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      08-05-2020, 08:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReeseGia View Post
Did some data logging from 3rd gear 2000 rpm to redline. Not sure what to look for tho lol. Maybe someone can help me.

Recently went to stage 2 93 oct. I have a FTP charge pipe a CTF intercooler, AEM air intake, Wagner high flow downpipe. It feels faster but I feel like there should've been more of a jump in performance. The parts were expensive lol.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f2b...0b435eae16a362


https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f2b...0b435f34cb1326


https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f2b...90c641c9357f2e

Thanks
Took a quick scan through the logs. Nothing jumps out as an issue. Boost control looks fine so i dont suspect any boost leaks. STFTs are consistently positive but <10% so should be OK, that could just be because you have an intake.

Timing doesnt look great... Its not the worst but you have corrections pretty much across the board on all cylinders and up to 5 degrees being pulled from cylinders. There's definitely some power loss from that. What plugs are you running, what gap, and how many miles on them? Its looks like just fuel quality issue, but plugs can be a factor as well.

You have a couple options, assuming its fuel quality -

Get higher octane fuel (either in general or with E85 or addatives);

Run the 91 map for more consistent timing, but that's not really going to help the butt dyno;

Continuing running 93 map and accept the corrections and inconsistent power.
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      08-05-2020, 08:32 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
You're in luck as i did a writeup just for this purpose. Read here:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1732327
Thanks a lot for that info. I'll try to read it as best I can. I'm kinda new to it though so a lot of those things are beyond me at the moment. Don't even know where to look tbh 😂
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      08-05-2020, 08:34 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ReeseGia View Post
Thanks a lot for that info. I'll try to read it as best I can. I'm kinda new to it though so a lot of those things are beyond me at the moment. Don't even know where to look tbh 😂
You will probably need to read more than once if you are unfamilar with the terms lol. If you have general questions about datalogging and how to read them, the parameters, etc, you can post in that thread and ill respond.

If you have questions about your specific datalogs, you can keep those in this thread. I posted some initial responses above.
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      08-05-2020, 08:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReeseGia View Post
Did some data logging from 3rd gear 2000 rpm to redline. Not sure what to look for tho lol. Maybe someone can help me.

Recently went to stage 2 93 oct. I have a FTP charge pipe a CTF intercooler, AEM air intake, Wagner high flow downpipe. It feels faster but I feel like there should've been more of a jump in performance. The parts were expensive lol.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f2b...0b435eae16a362


https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f2b...0b435f34cb1326


https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f2b...90c641c9357f2e

Thanks
Took a quick scan through the logs. Nothing jumps out as an issue. Boost control looks fine so i dont suspect any boost leaks. STFTs are consistently positive but <10% so should be OK, that could just be because you have an intake.

Timing doesnt look great... Its not the worst but you have corrections pretty much across the board on all cylinders and up to 5 degrees being pulled from cylinders. There's definitely some power loss from that. What plugs are you running, what gap, and how many miles on them? Its looks like just fuel quality issue, but plugs can be a factor as well.

You have a couple options, assuming its fuel quality -

Get higher octane fuel (either in general or with E85 or addatives);

Run the 91 map for more consistent timing, but that's not really going to help the butt dyno;

Continuing running 93 map and accept the corrections and inconsistent power.
Okay so I just had the plugs replaced by my shop and they gapped them to recommended bm3 gapping. They're new so I hope they aren't causing an issue. I just feel like something is off and there should be more power. I run 93 pump gas so idk how to increase octane without fouling the plugs
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      08-05-2020, 11:57 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by ReeseGia View Post
Okay so I just had the plugs replaced by my shop and they gapped them to recommended bm3 gapping. They're new so I hope they aren't causing an issue. I just feel like something is off and there should be more power. I run 93 pump gas so idk how to increase octane without fouling the plugs
NGKs then i take it, not OEM Bosch? Probably not the issue, likely just fuel. Not all 93 is created equal; alot of people run the 91 tune with 93 fuel. Do you have access to E85?
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      08-06-2020, 12:01 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReeseGia View Post
Okay so I just had the plugs replaced by my shop and they gapped them to recommended bm3 gapping. They're new so I hope they aren't causing an issue. I just feel like something is off and there should be more power. I run 93 pump gas so idk how to increase octane without fouling the plugs
NGKs then i take it, not OEM Bosch? Probably not the issue, likely just fuel. Not all 93 is created equal; alot of people run the 91 tune with 93 fuel. Do you have access to E85?
Yes but it's like 15-20 from where I live I think. Not sure what to do here, I'm thinking fuel needs more octane and not sure how to fix that with additives. Anyway I appreciate the help greatly!
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      08-06-2020, 03:11 AM   #9
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curious, when you say options of running 91 octane to clean up timing or keep running 93 and live with the corrections... would the performance be basically the same? as in the timing being on the 93 map pulled meets 91 octane standards, or would cleaner, but less, feel better power wise?
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      08-06-2020, 11:11 AM   #10
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Yes but it's like 15-20 from where I live I think. Not sure what to do here, I'm thinking fuel needs more octane and not sure how to fix that with additives. Anyway I appreciate the help greatly!
There's not much you can do. Honestly be thankful you 93 isnt worse, because a lot of people either dont have access to 93 at all and their 91 is so bad they cant even run the 91 tune (need ACN), or they have 93 but they still have bad timing even on 91 tune.

Some people run boostane or other additives, but generally not something you want to do long term and i personally feel thats more of a band-aid/temporary solution. E85 is a good long term solution if you are OK with spending the extra time/effort to do it. I think with your timing you could get away with probably 3 gallons of E85 per tank on the 93 map. It would take a little trial and error.

If you were going to go the E85 route you could also just run the actual E map, which will make more power than the 93 map. In that case you would want to actually test your E85 ethanol content and do a 'proper' mix to target E30, rather than just adding a few gallons to 93 to up octane.
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      08-06-2020, 11:15 AM   #11
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curious, when you say options of running 91 octane to clean up timing or keep running 93 and live with the corrections... would the performance be basically the same? as in the timing being on the 93 map pulled meets 91 octane standards, or would cleaner, but less, feel better power wise?
It depends really. In theory its possible to make less power on the 93 map than the 91 map if your timing corrections on the 93 map are so bad that they pull timing below where the 91 map would be.

As a simple example lets say the 93 map is targeting 8 degrees of timing at 5000 rpm, but its pulling 3 degrees or more across cylinders. If the 91 map is targeting 6 degrees of timing with no corrections, its going to make more power. This happens because the DME typically pulls a little more timing than might be needed (safer), then feeds it back in, rather than only pulling a little bit and potentially still getting knock for example.

The other factor is how consistent your power delivery is. If your tune is operating right on the octane limit of your fuel you might have alot of variation in power between pulls if you get one clean timing pull then one with alot of corrections. I felt this a LOT running the 91 map with 91 California fuel, especially in summer vs winter temperatures, and it was clear in the logs with sometimes massive timing corrections when IATs were higher. With the E20 map running E30, theres not only more power, but the power is always there.
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      08-06-2020, 04:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerJoe View Post
curious, when you say options of running 91 octane to clean up timing or keep running 93 and live with the corrections... would the performance be basically the same? as in the timing being on the 93 map pulled meets 91 octane standards, or would cleaner, but less, feel better power wise?
It depends really. In theory its possible to make less power on the 93 map than the 91 map if your timing corrections on the 93 map are so bad that they pull timing below where the 91 map would be.

As a simple example lets say the 93 map is targeting 8 degrees of timing at 5000 rpm, but its pulling 3 degrees or more across cylinders. If the 91 map is targeting 6 degrees of timing with no corrections, its going to make more power. This happens because the DME typically pulls a little more timing than might be needed (safer), then feeds it back in, rather than only pulling a little bit and potentially still getting knock for example.

The other factor is how consistent your power delivery is. If your tune is operating right on the octane limit of your fuel you might have alot of variation in power between pulls if you get one clean timing pull then one with alot of corrections. I felt this a LOT running the 91 map with 91 California fuel, especially in summer vs winter temperatures, and it was clear in the logs with sometimes massive timing corrections when IATs were higher. With the E20 map running E30, theres not only more power, but the power is always there.
Just did a pull and a launch, this time I added a bottle of Lucas octane booster to the gas. all the ignition degrees are the same this time, I can't send the log just yet but all the degrees are the same and my 0-60 was 3.7. Felt better too. Just gas?
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      08-06-2020, 05:42 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReeseGia View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerJoe View Post
curious, when you say options of running 91 octane to clean up timing or keep running 93 and live with the corrections... would the performance be basically the same? as in the timing being on the 93 map pulled meets 91 octane standards, or would cleaner, but less, feel better power wise?
It depends really. In theory its possible to make less power on the 93 map than the 91 map if your timing corrections on the 93 map are so bad that they pull timing below where the 91 map would be.

As a simple example lets say the 93 map is targeting 8 degrees of timing at 5000 rpm, but its pulling 3 degrees or more across cylinders. If the 91 map is targeting 6 degrees of timing with no corrections, its going to make more power. This happens because the DME typically pulls a little more timing than might be needed (safer), then feeds it back in, rather than only pulling a little bit and potentially still getting knock for example.

The other factor is how consistent your power delivery is. If your tune is operating right on the octane limit of your fuel you might have alot of variation in power between pulls if you get one clean timing pull then one with alot of corrections. I felt this a LOT running the 91 map with 91 California fuel, especially in summer vs winter temperatures, and it was clear in the logs with sometimes massive timing corrections when IATs were higher. With the E20 map running E30, theres not only more power, but the power is always there.
Just did a pull and a launch, this time I added a bottle of Lucas octane booster to the gas. all the ignition degrees are the same this time, I can't send the log just yet but all the degrees are the same and my 0-60 was 3.7. Felt better too. Just gas?
Here's the link to the run


https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f2c...90c602250958e1

Felt good, timing looks good too now after the octane booster
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      08-06-2020, 05:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReeseGia View Post
Just did a pull and a launch, this time I added a bottle of Lucas octane booster to the gas. all the ignition degrees are the same this time, I can't send the log just yet but all the degrees are the same and my 0-60 was 3.7. Felt better too. Just gas?
What exact octane booster did you add and how much did you add to how much gas in the tank? Curious because most of the auto parts store ones only raise octane by a fraction of a pt when added to a whole tank of gas.

Timing looks mint in the log though. I am honestly surprised the octane booster made that much of a difference. How long after the original flash to stage 2 were the first set of logs? If not long (in terms of miles), there also could have been some adaptation going on.

Either way i would put some more miles on it and log again to confirm this wasnt a (good) fluke.

Also, are you measuring 0-60 with dragy or what?
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      08-06-2020, 05:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReeseGia View Post
Just did a pull and a launch, this time I added a bottle of Lucas octane booster to the gas. all the ignition degrees are the same this time, I can't send the log just yet but all the degrees are the same and my 0-60 was 3.7. Felt better too. Just gas?
What exact octane booster did you add and how much did you add to how much gas in the tank? Curious because most of the auto parts store ones only raise octane by a fraction of a pt when added to a whole tank of gas.

Timing looks mint in the log though. I am honestly surprised the octane booster made that much of a difference. How long after the original flash to stage 2 were the first set of logs? If not long (in terms of miles), there also could have been some adaptation going on.

Either way i would put some more miles on it and log again to confirm this wasnt a (good) fluke.

Also, are you measuring 0-60 with dragy or what?
Well I think I did another flash of stage 2 right before that run so that very last log is a new flash same settings tho. Lucas octane booster, whole bottle to a near full tank. I'm using an obd scanner with 0-60 capabilities. Seems pretty accurate too.
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      08-06-2020, 06:14 PM   #16
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Well I think I did another flash of stage 2 right before that run so that very last log is a new flash same settings tho. Lucas octane booster, whole bottle to a near full tank. I'm using an obd scanner with 0-60 capabilities. Seems pretty accurate too.
I would say just log again near the end of this tank, then with a fresh tank with no octane booster and see how it looks.
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      08-06-2020, 06:32 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by ReeseGia View Post
Well I think I did another flash of stage 2 right before that run so that very last log is a new flash same settings tho. Lucas octane booster, whole bottle to a near full tank. I'm using an obd scanner with 0-60 capabilities. Seems pretty accurate too.
I would say just log again near the end of this tank, then with a fresh tank with no octane booster and see how it looks.
That's what I was thinking, this time I'm gonna try my sonoco not my Exxon lol.

Also I really appreciate the info and the help you gave me. Means a lot!

Thanks
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