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      02-02-2013, 01:36 PM   #1
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Test drive the IS F?

Test drove the 2013 IS F.
Horsepower, torque, and handling all come on too easy. And, the exhaust bark is very AMG like.
Maybe a good daily driver alternate to the F30 335i?...any thoughts ?
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      02-02-2013, 01:43 PM   #2
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Isn't that car like 70k? I don't think it's compares well to the 335i. Unless you mean the IS 350 F sport?
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      02-02-2013, 01:52 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDEddie1 View Post
Test drove the 2013 IS F.
Horsepower, torque, and handling all come on too easy. And, the exhaust bark is very AMG like.
Maybe a good daily driver alternate to the F30 335i?...any thoughts ?
Yes it is a nice car, but not a 335i rival, but M3 rival.
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      02-02-2013, 01:56 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDEddie1 View Post
Test drove the 2013 IS F.
Horsepower, torque, and handling all come on too easy. And, the exhaust bark is very AMG like.
Maybe a good daily driver alternate to the F30 335i?...any thoughts ?
Are you shopping the 3 series or the M3? Because the ISF is not a competitor to the 3 series. So yeah, is you want more power and torque than any 3 series has, get the ISF.
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      02-02-2013, 02:08 PM   #5
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As a daily driver the 335i is tough to beat given how low you can access the tq and the fuel mileage. Even M3 guys will admit to that. As a tq and hp monster, the is f is in the m3s league
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      02-02-2013, 02:35 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDEddie1
Test drove the 2013 IS F.
Horsepower, torque, and handling all come on too easy. And, the exhaust bark is very AMG like.
Maybe a good daily driver alternate to the F30 335i?...any thoughts ?
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      02-02-2013, 03:03 PM   #7
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Na

"The IS-F is a credible effort for a company whose stock in trade is luxury and refinement, and there is much that Lexus has absolutely nailed.

The V8 powerplant stands comparison with any of its rivals and the overall balance of the IS-F’s entertaining and adjustable chassis is wonderful. Those are the basics and they’re spot on.


Matt
Burt
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Lexus has done well, but could do better
In the end, then, it’s details that set the Mercedes C63 and BMW M3 apart from the IS-F. But they’re the details that separate excellence from mere competence.

If Lexus is serious about its ‘Fuji’ moniker, it should fit a limited-slip differential and a gearbox better suited to fast driving. It has tuned the suspension to retain comfort while improving control, but in the end it excels at neither. And inside you’ll find seats that are too flat.

Lexus has done well, but could do better. "
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      02-02-2013, 03:35 PM   #8
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Sorry I have drove an ISF. It was unimpressive to say the least. The transmission is a slush box. I like the IS350 better than the ISF. In that price range I would go with a C63 AMG if you didn't want an M3.
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      02-03-2013, 01:05 AM   #9
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335i vs ISF...price wise somewhere between a fully loaded 335i and the 2014 M3. Lexus packs a lot into their cars and here they're in the mid $60. A fully loaded 335i M Sport with similar tech options in the mid to high $50s.
Real world daily driver? Maybe somewhere between a 335i and M3 as well.
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      02-03-2013, 09:16 AM   #10
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If you don't mind driving a high-priced Toyota, sure, go ahead. Same with a Cadillac ATS or any one of the other BMW wannabes. You could also get a Mustang or Camaro or Charger/Challenter, for that matter. One thing for sure - none of them is a BMW.
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      02-03-2013, 09:26 AM   #11
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He might mean a used IS-F.
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      02-03-2013, 02:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
If you don't mind driving a high-priced Toyota, sure, go ahead. Same with a Cadillac ATS or any one of the other BMW wannabes. You could also get a Mustang or Camaro or Charger/Challenter, for that matter. One thing for sure - none of them is a BMW.
I sense a bit of brand snobbery here, to say nothing of your comment's beingjust another form of ad hominem line of justification having no logical, or rational value.

Cadillac: Their ATS is a damn fine car and for all but at-the-limit driving is just as good as any 3er. Seeing as most people -- not most people on this forum, but in fact most people -- never even come close to driving at the limit, styling is all that distinguishes them. Read the recent reviews and and you'll see that most experts find the ATS to essentially be the 3er's equal. If Caddy continue on their current trend, they may have a car that surpasses the 3er. After all, consider that in it's first year of production, the ATS is already a very serious threat, more so than Lexus, Infiniti, Audi or MB's corresponding cars, to the 3er's reign as the world's top compact sport sedan.

Lexus: Lexus is now its own car brand; they are no longer sold outside the US as Toyotas. It has been since 2005. The IS family of cars are quite nice and for most folks the price variance between the IS and the corresponding BMW is more than compelling enough to make them worth considering. Moreover, they are more reliable than BMWs, especially if one plans to keep the car for longer than five years. With the F30's recent growth, it now offers more interior space than the IS, and it's certainly a more sporting car. More sporting, however, isn't a quality that most folks care about here in the US as there are very few places to exploit that aspect of the car.
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      02-03-2013, 03:24 PM   #13
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The whole "F Sport" series is a new venture for Lexus who has pretty much mastered the personal luxury game. They're always catered to a demographic that holds quality and comfort above all else. While they've not created direct equals to their competition, they've spiced up their offerings whilst retaining a lot of their core values. That said, no, it's not an M3 or a C63 (more appropriate comparison than 335i). But it IS pretty much exactly what you'd expect Lexus to offer with their own spin.

I haven't driven an IS yet, but I did beat up a GS350 F Sport quite a bit last year. It was pretty damn nice and quite a bold leap for typically conservative Lexus.
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      02-04-2013, 07:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
I sense a bit of brand snobbery here, to say nothing of your comment's beingjust another form of ad hominem line of justification having no logical, or rational value.
"Brand snobbery"? Really? That's a rather bold and also rude and crude comment, considering that what I said was true. Neither of those brands are BMWs - I didn't say anything about it being superior (which I personally feel it is, after 50 years of driving more types and brands of vehicles than you likely ever will). I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with someone who feels the need to correct everything that someone else says just to feel superior, especially when it's based on misinterpretation.

Lexus is part of the Toyota corporate empire, and as such, they're as much a Toyota as a Lincoln is a Ford. Try not to forget those basic items. As I once said to a friend, whose retired parents had just bought a Lexus, "they're nice cars, but they have no soul", and he readily agreed with me. Not everyone would.

Regarding Cadillac, again, these are GM alpha-platform cars built by the UAW, as are most other GM vehicles. In other words, they're typical of the one-platform, many-body lineup that GM offers to its customers, differentiated only by fascia and brand logos. Having owned multiple vehicles from the "Big Three", they're not my cup of tea any more, no matter how good Car and Driver says they are.

So - getting back to the OP's original premise - he can buy whatever he wants to save his BMW for better weather, but if he's trying to find a cheaper substitute for his more highly-valued brand, that's exactly what they'll be - they're NOT BMWs, so his satisfaction level may not meet his expectations.

Don't read something into every contrary opinion you find on here, Tony. This is two-dimensional blogging, not a face-to-face conversation, and the opportunity to mis-interpret is as wide as an interstate highway.
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      02-04-2013, 08:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
I sense a bit of brand snobbery here, to say nothing of your comment's beingjust another form of ad hominem line of justification having no logical, or rational value.

Cadillac: Their ATS is a damn fine car and for all but at-the-limit driving is just as good as any 3er. Seeing as most people -- not most people on this forum, but in fact most people -- never even come close to driving at the limit, styling is all that distinguishes them. Read the recent reviews and and you'll see that most experts find the ATS to essentially be the 3er's equal. If Caddy continue on their current trend, they may have a car that surpasses the 3er. After all, consider that in it's first year of production, the ATS is already a very serious threat, more so than Lexus, Infiniti, Audi or MB's corresponding cars, to the 3er's reign as the world's top compact sport sedan.

Lexus: Lexus is now its own car brand; they are no longer sold outside the US as Toyotas. It has been since 2005. The IS family of cars are quite nice and for most folks the price variance between the IS and the corresponding BMW is more than compelling enough to make them worth considering. Moreover, they are more reliable than BMWs, especially if one plans to keep the car for longer than five years. With the F30's recent growth, it now offers more interior space than the IS, and it's certainly a more sporting car. More sporting, however, isn't a quality that most folks care about here in the US as there are very few places to exploit that aspect of the car.
I believe the Lexus ES chassis is still shared with Toyota. It was based on the camry but now the avalon.... BMW is a brand unto only itself. As much as people say Lexus is not Toyota, it's still a subbrand.

My friend likes calling every car out by it's parent company, and when he does it, it really does make sense. Like I prefer hondas over toyotas and therefore prefer acuras over lexus'.
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      02-04-2013, 08:58 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
"Brand snobbery"? Really? That's a rather bold and also rude and crude comment, considering that what I said was true. Neither of those brands are BMWs - I didn't say anything about it being superior (which I personally feel it is, after 50 years of driving more types and brands of vehicles than you likely ever will). I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with someone who feels the need to correct everything that someone else says just to feel superior, especially when it's based on misinterpretation.

Lexus is part of the Toyota corporate empire, and as such, they're as much a Toyota as a Lincoln is a Ford. Try not to forget those basic items. As I once said to a friend, whose retired parents had just bought a Lexus, "they're nice cars, but they have no soul", and he readily agreed with me. Not everyone would.

Regarding Cadillac, again, these are GM alpha-platform cars built by the UAW, as are most other GM vehicles. In other words, they're typical of the one-platform, many-body lineup that GM offers to its customers, differentiated only by fascia and brand logos. Having owned multiple vehicles from the "Big Three", they're not my cup of tea any more, no matter how good Car and Driver says they are.

So - getting back to the OP's original premise - he can buy whatever he wants to save his BMW for better weather, but if he's trying to find a cheaper substitute for his more highly-valued brand, that's exactly what they'll be - they're NOT BMWs, so his satisfaction level may not meet his expectations.

Don't read something into every contrary opinion you find on here, Tony. This is two-dimensional blogging, not a face-to-face conversation, and the opportunity to mis-interpret is as wide as an interstate highway.
+1 well put!
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      02-04-2013, 09:05 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
"Brand snobbery"? Really? That's a rather bold and also rude and crude comment, considering that what I said was true. Neither of those brands are BMWs - I didn't say anything about it being superior (which I personally feel it is, after 50 years of driving more types and brands of vehicles than you likely ever will). I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with someone who feels the need to correct everything that someone else says just to feel superior, especially when it's based on misinterpretation.

Lexus is part of the Toyota corporate empire, and as such, they're as much a Toyota as a Lincoln is a Ford. Try not to forget those basic items. As I once said to a friend, whose retired parents had just bought a Lexus, "they're nice cars, but they have no soul", and he readily agreed with me. Not everyone would.

Regarding Cadillac, again, these are GM alpha-platform cars built by the UAW, as are most other GM vehicles. In other words, they're typical of the one-platform, many-body lineup that GM offers to its customers, differentiated only by fascia and brand logos. Having owned multiple vehicles from the "Big Three", they're not my cup of tea any more, no matter how good Car and Driver says they are.

So - getting back to the OP's original premise - he can buy whatever he wants to save his BMW for better weather, but if he's trying to find a cheaper substitute for his more highly-valued brand, that's exactly what they'll be - they're NOT BMWs, so his satisfaction level may not meet his expectations.
Don't read something into every contrary opinion you find on here, Tony. This is two-dimensional blogging, not a face-to-face conversation, and the opportunity to mis-interpret is as wide as an interstate highway.
I also see your post as brand snobbery. You feel the need to comment on the UAW yet BMW in Germany is unionized. BMW also owns the Mini brand and the rumor is that the new FWD BMW 2 series will be based on a Mini chassis. Ultimately who cares what chassis a car is on or who builds it as long as the car drives well? According to nearly every review not just CD, the ATS drives great. By the way, as far as I can tell, the Alpha chassis is currently exclusive to the ATS and was developed for that car.
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      02-04-2013, 09:16 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkTrigger View Post
I believe the Lexus ES chassis is still shared with Toyota. It was based on the camry but now the avalon.... BMW is a brand unto only itself. As much as people say Lexus is not Toyota, it's still a subbrand.

My friend likes calling every car out by it's parent company, and when he does it, it really does make sense. Like I prefer hondas over toyotas and therefore prefer acuras over lexus'.
The ES is now Avalon based.
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      02-04-2013, 10:18 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkTrigger View Post
I believe the Lexus ES chassis is still shared with Toyota. It was based on the camry but now the avalon.... BMW is a brand unto only itself. As much as people say Lexus is not Toyota, it's still a subbrand.

My friend likes calling every car out by it's parent company, and when he does it, it really does make sense. Like I prefer hondas over toyotas and therefore prefer acuras over lexus'.

BMW also own Rolls Royce. Does that make a RR a BMW, or is a BMW a RR?

One thing I can say for sure, no RR owners think they have BMWs and no BMW owners think they have RRs. Well, maybe some do, but they are mistaken. Now I'm sure that there are some aspects of each company's manufactured parts that are shared among the various organizations; it only makes good business sense to exploit synergies and get the most use possible out of the parts.

You and I have many identical parts. Moreover, some of those parts are identical to those found in pigs and fish. That hardly makes me you or you me, to say nothing of either of us being fish. You could even be porcine (I'm not, I work out. LOL), but that still doesn't make you a pig.

If nature can share parts, why shouldn't car makers?
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      02-04-2013, 11:06 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
I also see your post as brand snobbery. You feel the need to comment on the UAW yet BMW in Germany is unionized. BMW also owns the Mini brand and the rumor is that the new FWD BMW 2 series will be based on a Mini chassis. Ultimately who cares what chassis a car is on or who builds it as long as the car drives well? According to nearly every review not just CD, the ATS drives great. By the way, as far as I can tell, the Alpha chassis is currently exclusive to the ATS and was developed for that car.
So you haven't actually driven an ATS, then? I suspect your opinion is worth no more than mine, but I base mine on past experience with GM and other brands I won't ever buy again. Not to say I won't drive them - sometimes car rental agencies don't give you much of a choice. Who cares what chassis a car is on or who builds it as long as the car "drives well"? Probably people who view cars as transportation devices, a category I'll never fall into. And it's going to be the new FWD 1 series that's based on mini underpinnings, while the current 1-series will become the 2-series. Nonetheless, I stand by what I said. If the OP wants something else to substitute for his BMW in bad weather conditions, great - just don't expect it to be a BMW. It's hard to tell a Chevrolet from a Buick from a Cadillac these days, but none of them is a Ford or Chrysler, either.
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      02-04-2013, 11:15 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
BMW also own Rolls Royce. Does that make a RR a BMW, or is a BMW a RR?

One thing I can say for sure, no RR owners think they have BMWs and no BMW owners think they have RRs. Well, maybe some do, but they are mistaken. Now I'm sure that there are some aspects of each company's manufactured parts that are shared among the various organizations; it only makes good business sense to exploit synergies and get the most use possible out of the parts.

You and I have many identical parts. Moreover, some of those parts are identical to those found in pigs and fish. That hardly makes me you or you me, to say nothing of either of us being fish. You could even be porcine (I'm not, I work out. LOL), but that still doesn't make you a pig.

If nature can share parts, why shouldn't car makers?
This is strictly a matter of ones opinion. In my opinion, car companies reuse the chasis' to reduce cost, nothing more. Look whose calling the kettle black.

BTW, I think you may be a "porcine" too, just in a different sense of the word. Why troll the f30 forums?

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      02-04-2013, 11:23 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
"Brand snobbery"? Really? That's a rather bold and also rude and crude comment, considering that what I said was true. Neither of those brands are BMWs - I didn't say anything about it being superior (which I personally feel it is, after 50 years of driving more types and brands of vehicles than you likely ever will). I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with someone who feels the need to correct everything that someone else says just to feel superior, especially when it's based on misinterpretation.
Correct what you said? Not at all. I offered my interpretation of it. If you say you aren't a snob about the brands, I guess I have to believe you. And no, you didn't explicitly say that any brand is superior to the other. But the connotation of calling a Lexus a "high priced Toyota" can hardly be seen as much but deprecating.

As to why I said what I did, why do you think I needed to say that to feel superior? Do you really think me unable to feel superior without responding to your comment? Self superiority, whether I possess it or not, is by definition achieved without involving others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
Lexus is part of the Toyota corporate empire, and as such, they're as much a Toyota as a Lincoln is a Ford. Try not to forget those basic items. As I once said to a friend, whose retired parents had just bought a Lexus, "they're nice cars, but they have no soul", and he readily agreed with me. Not everyone would.
So what part of BMW is Mini? Or Rolls Royce? If some bit from either brand finds its way into a BMW, does that make them the same things? There was a time when a Lexus was a Toyota. A Lexus XYS was marketed outside the US as a Toyota ABC, the only differences being the brand and model labels glued on the trunk. Today, despite similar styling aspects, it's pretty clear a Lexus isn't a Toyota, but yes, there are certainly shared parts between them.

And yes, I too think Lexus cars haven't as much soul as other cars, but the ISF will kick some butt and it drives well. Regardless of what I think, and whether I'd buy one, I have no reason to suggest someone not buy it based on its relationship to a Toyota, which in an of itself, is not a bad thing. If I were to suggest against it, it would be based on something objective: the lack of space in the rear, its inability to do this or that, the poor execution of some feature, this or that aspect of the car (something other than its connection to some other brand) feels cheap, or something else. Lacking anything concrete, were I to say anything at all, I'd just suggest one drive it and decide.

The essence of calling the IS or ISF an expensive Toyota is that you think the OP should go drive the IS and then go find the corresponding Toyota and determine whether the IS is worth the premium. Now I for one don't even know what Toyota car would be the equivalent of an IS. I wonder if the OP does? I know you didn't carry through with your idea and tell her/him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
Regarding Cadillac, again, these are GM alpha-platform cars built by the UAW, as are most other GM vehicles. In other words, they're typical of the one-platform, many-body lineup that GM offers to its customers, differentiated only by fascia and brand logos. Having owned multiple vehicles from the "Big Three", they're not my cup of tea any more, no matter how good Car and Driver says they are.
What exactly does who the laborers are have to do with whether a car maker utilizes a "one platform, many-body" strategy? Does this mean that if the UAW doesn't build them, car makers can have multiple platforms and multiple bodies?

I can accept that they just don't knock your socks off. That's fine; there's absolutely nothing wrong with your not liking/wanting one. And I applaud that you are willing to make your own decision about liking them, despite what the car press say.

I was of a similar mind about Apple products and in particular the iPhone. I had long used Nokia phones and I was quite happy with them. They did everything I needed them to and I was missing nothing. Then, after just being curious having read all the positive press about iPhones, I broke down and bought an iPhone 4 and I have to say, it's great phone; the yea-sayers were right. I was most impressed with how intuitive it is to use. Indeed to this day, I have yet to read an owner's manual for it. But for it being more phone than they need, I'd even suggest one to my aged parents (86 and 95 years old), for I truly believe, that unlike most cell phones, even simple ones, it wouldn't confuse them to use it.

I have since moved on to a new Nokia Lumia 920. I like it just as much as the iPhone, and it was far less costly. It doesn't have all the available apps that an iPhone does, but it has the ones I want. All those thousands of apps that I don't want really don't matter to me. The IS could well be to the OP what the Lumia is to me: a fine alternative to the iPhone that costs a lot less and offers no less utility or ease of use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
So - getting back to the OP's original premise - he can buy whatever he wants to save his BMW for better weather, but if he's trying to find a cheaper substitute for his more highly-valued brand, that's exactly what they'll be - they're NOT BMWs, so his satisfaction level may not meet his expectations.

Don't read something into every contrary opinion you find on here, Tony. This is two-dimensional blogging, not a face-to-face conversation, and the opportunity to mis-interpret is as wide as an interstate highway.
I agree, whatever the OP gets that isn't a BMW, won't be a BMW. As suggested above, s/he'll have to make that decision by driving some cars. He may not be satisfied with a non-BMW, but I'm fairly sure it won't be because it's a car that was made by the a Ford-, Toyota-, or GM-related car company.

I didn't read anything into what you said. I read it and I said that it read like brand snobbery because that's what it read like to me. I didn't call you a snob, I said only that your words give me the sense that you may have some brand snobbery going on in your post. Surely, be you a brand snob or not, you can see how decrying an upmarket car due to its connection with a mass market brand, and further implying that, in addition to purchasing a re-branded mass market car, by buying it one will pay more to get the same thing available in the mass market variant, could be construed as brand snobbery.
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Cheers,
Tony

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'07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed

Last edited by tony20009; 02-04-2013 at 11:32 AM..
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