[beanbaguk]

Originally Posted by christak

beanbaguk,

Have you been able to resolve all your issues? Are you satsified with the bimmertech amp and is it worth the investment? much better sound or diminishing returns?

Am new to this forum and have a 2013 f30 with base stereo, upgraded with Bavsound stage 1 and ghost subs. Now I am looking to add the bimmertech amp.

Could you share the installation instructions/video you were developping?

thanks, greatly appreciated

Sorry, I just noticed this post today so apologies for replying so late.

I really do need to stress my view are very subjective and that of my own but they do reflect my experiences.

Let's start with the basics.

If you have a base stereo system with a HU_CHAMP2 iDrive unit, then no. I don't recommend this upgrade.

I had a HUGE number of issues and have resolved them over time at a lot of cost and sacrifice to my speakers.

Let me explain.
This amp is seriously brilliant. Really, it is; But you need to have the existing hardware in place to support it properly.

Think about installing a Ferrari engine to a Fiat Panda and you get the idea.

You MUST have upgraded speakers. This amp will blow your base stereo crappy ones to kingdom come. I was lucky to already have a BSW S1 kit installed in my car which improved my sound massively; However this kit comes with a hidden flaw.

The BSW S1 kit for base stereo systems comes with an in-line filter on the main front driver. This is to improve the sound when using the base stereo high-output settings from the amp, but it caused HUGE problems when I installed the Bimmertech Premium Audio amp to my car.

Even after coding the car correctly (verified by Bimmertech), I continued to get tweeter clipping. Patryk spent a good amount of time with me providing a number of config files for the DSP, and trying all sorts to make it work.

I then called Bavsound and asked for their feedback and ended up speaking to one of their audio engineers. He didn't tell me to do this directly, but suggested removing the main driver filter could resolve the problem. (I want to stress, I did not remove the tweeter cross-over. This must remain in place!)

After cutting it out, and crimping the cables together again and tried once more and the results were outstanding; However at higher volumes, the clipping remained. (I'll come onto that later).

So I made do for a while at lower volumes, although the sound wasn't perfect.

I then decided, after discussing on the forums to add a line-in cable to the amp and by-pass the head unit altogether.

What happened next blew my mind. Beautiful, deep sound that should have been there from the start. I could even up the volume to a good level but too high and the clipping in the tweeters remained. (The mids and subs were fine).

After some testing, it turns out the tweeters are completely screwed from the original clipping that happened and for that reason I'm searching for a replacement pair. (Anyone?)

But I also worked out from this experimentation, the CHAMP HU is a pile of garbage and even when set to HIFI in the config with low output from the channels and supposedly flat audio, the sound output is a pile of crap.

It's for this reason, I don't recommend upgrading if you have this HU, and I wish I had waited a little longer until I upgraded to an NBT before going for the amp upgrade.

At the moment, I am driving the amp through the line-input bypassing the HU altogether to get the best music quality but I do have other challenges and it doesn't fix all the problems:

• I can't charge without an in-line filter (which I don't have yet) due to a ground loop issue.
• I don't get any car chimes or PDC beeps. (I almost pranged my car as a result)
• My steering volume controls are all gone which is annoying. I have to control it through the phone which is illegal and fiddly.

My plan moving forward is to upgrade to an NBT as and when money permits.

I also want to upgrade the subs to ghosts and also replaced my buggered tweeters. (Again, any donors!!!)

So to summarise:

The Bimmertech Premium Audio kit is fantastic and well worth it IF you have upgraded speakers AND an NBT / HiFi set-up.

If you don't have both of these, I suggest upgrading those parts first.

I also want to make a public and belated apology to Patryk and the team at Bimmertech. I was meant to make a video installation guide of my work but the tuning and tweaking process went on for so long I lost focus on this.

Additionally, I then crashed the car (now repaired), my house purchase fell through and now I have a baby on the way so due genuine lack of time, I simply have not had the time to complete any of the guides.

Right. Back to work

[Lancelot]

Hi, thanks for taking the time for this write up I think this will be helpful to others.

I also wanted to offer a slightly different take on the same scenario;

First let me say that indeed I would recommend to spec your car with Harmann Kardon when ordering, best value for money ; many with lesser setups (base or hifi) upgrade and end up paying more.

(Lesson 1) => As always, retrofit is more expensive than factory option.

I'm saying this having had the Harmann Kardon in a previous car and having now upgraded from base stereo to bimmertech amp + aftermarket focal speakers.

• Hifi gives you a more plug and play scenario but is still quite expensive with the Bimmertech amp and speakers.
• Base stereo is a pain to upgrade with all the cables to route, no place for tweeters, no amp in the back means putting the ($250) harness to run cable from the headunit to the trunk and back.

(Lesson 2) => If not an option, favour Hifi over Base Stereo in your second hand car
Note that HK cannot be upgraded with Bimmertech amp for instance, as it takes an optical input.

I had first upgraded to Focal 100KRS speakers with passive cross-over + IFBMW-Sub underseat subs, so none of that annoying stuff with BAV sound.

I then decided after discussing on the forums to add a line-in cable to the amp and by-pass the head unit altogether.

What happened next blew my mind. Beautiful, deep sound that should have been there from the start. I could even up the volume to a good level but too high and the clipping in the tweeters remained. (The mids and subs were fine).

At the moment, I am driving the amp through the line-input bypassing the HU altogether to get the best music quality but I do have other challenges and it doesn't fix all the problems:
I can't charge without an in-line filter (which I don't have yet) due to a ground loop issue.
I don't get any car chimes or PDC beeps. (I almost pranged my car as a result)
My steering volume controls are all gone which is annoying. I have to control it through the phone which is illegal and fiddly.

I kind of went the same route but with one variant: I opted for an optical connection (so no ground-loop noise), and added the remote URC2A to control the volume via sth else than the phone which is very unpractical.

And yes almost pranged the car too for the same reason of no PDC volume.

Recently I found myself using the USB cable to NBT with actually close enough sound quality, which the bluetooth wasn't capable of.

(Lesson 3) => Get NBT, use USB cable not bluetooth.

I also added a center speaker as I dislike having one speaker at 20cm and the other at 1.5m distance, very unbalanced.
(Lesson 4) => It's a complicated task to cut into your dash!

So in a nutshell, my reco:

• If you like good sound and buy a new car, go for HK
• Hifi vs. Base stereo gives you much easier upgrade options
• If you must upgrade, upgrade your amp and speakers ;

The cost for me was $800 amp + $250 harness (no hifi) + AirPlay receiver ($150) + remote URC2A ($50) + Focal speakers ($600 front only 3 x mid+tweet + 2x subs) + measurement USB Mic = ~$2000

The bimmertech / autiotec-fischer PP82DSP gives you unparalleled control over the EQ, together with a good measurement microphone you can reach a very satisfying setup, but at what cost... HK is properly EQ'd out of factory.

[GeertB]

Originally Posted by Nelson@BimmerTech

New TUNE Alert :

F36 Gran Coupe with Full Bavsound speaker upgrade including ghost underseat woofers.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9...VpUcjZMbjZxOW8

Great!
I will certainly use that one because it has the exact same setup as mine will have.

[GeertB]

If I finish my setup I will try the share my experience. I'm still convinced that if you have base stereo, and you have ASD, it is a big difference: the bracket for the amp, and all the speaker wires are right there going to you ASD. So no need for a big harness running all the way to your HU. That should make the upgrade from a base system much easier.
But I don't have the harness yet, so have some patience

[beanbaguk]

Lancelot, I have a question for you. You mentioned you use a bluetooth connection to the aux input on the amp.

Do you have any ground loop issues with that receiver? It needs power so I'm wondering if there is any static?

If not, I might try that as an option....it would remove the 5m long aux cable I have trailing through my cabin! (OK, it's hidden but still a pain having it!)

[Lancelot]

Originally Posted by beanbaguk

Lancelot, I have a question for you. You mentioned you use a bluetooth connection to the aux input on the amp.

Do you have any ground loop issues with that receiver? It needs power so I'm wondering if there is any static?

If not, I might try that as an option....it would remove the 5m long aux cable I have trailing through my cabin! (OK, it's hidden but still a pain having it!)

Well that won't really resolve your issue, I put an AirPlay / DLNA receiver with both TOSLink and Aux out, creating a wifi hotspot in the car.

I linked it with originally an Aux cable to the amp, but couldn't get rid of the ground loop noise issue despite trying to isolate the USB feed with specific devices, they just couldn't let enough current through.

I decided to change to the TOSLink connection (optical) which by definition doesn't have ground loop noise, but does not allow to control volume from the phone, and requires the remote control, so bought the Audiotec Fischer URC2A remote, adding a cable in the cabin (so you're trading an Aux cable for another...).

I setup the amp to auto switch to digital input when there is a signal, which works well and lets me get back to head unit audio when necessary.

Recently I started using a USB cable for other reasons and found the sound quality to be acceptable, not quite as good as via the AirPlay/Toslink to Amp (stereo stage wasn't as good but still decent), but all things taken into account, keeping the PDC beeps, steering wheel controls have their advantages.

Hope this helps...

[GeertB]

Lancelot and Beanbaguk,
Will I have similar issues as you have? I'm guessing I will not, but I'm not sure...
I'm hoping the bimmertech amp will just amplify my sounds coming from my ASD. And that's it...

[gotomoto]

Do you have any info about retrofitting ASD on base setup?

Originally Posted by GeertB

Ok, I posted the info in another thread allready (http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1234349), but it concerns bimmertech amp upgrades for base equipped bmw's:

I have a 428i with base setup, but I have a ASD (active sound design). Apparantely if you have base setup and ASD, the ASD acts as an amp.

So: HU > ASD > Speakers in my case
So some people say I should not use the normal base to hifi harness.
Because the good sequence should be : HU > ASD > AMP > Speakers, like it is when you have Hifi of HK.
With the normal base to hifi harness the sequence would become: HU > AMP > ASD > Speakers. What isn't a good idea...
What do you guys think? Anyone that also has ASD here?

[GeertB]

Well, due to a huge lack of free time to spend on the BMW, I only started the upgrade yesterday

[GeertB]

I started yesterday with the most difficult part in my opinion: adding the center channel to a base system.

I have a new model center channel cover with four tabs on each corner. I believe this cover is better to add afterwards because it will have a tighter fit.

[GeertB]

The tools I used to make to opening in the dash:
A very small but sharp knife:


You need such a small knife to be able to make the openings closest to the windshield. I used 4 of these blades because the plastic bottom off the dashboard is pretty hard and they become blunt, or I twisted them too hard and they broke in half

A dremel with a flex arm. I used a universal saw blade to make the big opening and a small tool to sand down the edges to get a proper finish.





Then I also used a portable dyson vacum cleaner with a flexibel hose attached to it to clean out the dash.





Looks a bit silly, but did the job!

I also used a small 90° picking tool to get the openings for the tabs out. The tool is part of the BAVsound tool kit. You need this tool because you can't push the openings you made for the 4 tabs through the dash because you can't reach them. So if you push them through, they will fall in your dash and stay there for ever.

[GeertB]

I removed the I drive screen to have enough workspace to make the opening. You have to remove the trim piece first. I also removed the head-unit because the cable from the I drive screen was stuck somewhere behing the HU and I couldn't pull the screen far enough.





Then I placed my template on the dash and fixed it with some tape.

[GeertB]

Then I made the big opening first with the dremel so I had a better view on things.



Picture of the picking tool I used:



Top view with all the openings finished:



Center speaker (BAVsound) installed. I had to trim the edge closest to the windshield a little more to get the cover installed


I ordered original BMW screws for the center channel but they are a little short because of the spacer ring. So I went to the hardware store and bought some longer ones.

Cover ready to be installed:


Finished:






I am very happy with the result. My neighbour has a bmw with hifi and there is no difference what so ever between the two center speaker covers.

[Lancelot]

Great job
I did this too, i know it isn't easy.

[GeertB]

Next upgrade: Had my head-unit recoded last week by BimmerID (Belgium):



You immediately notice the 'lower' sound output. It is much more flat and nog that heavily boosted. Like there is a loudness option deactivated. Also PDC is quieter now. But that has something to do with signal going to the front speakers I think. It should go back to normal when the amp is installed and the subs are bypassed.

[LittleBlackHawk]

Originally Posted by GeertB

To come back to this:
Bimmertech agreed to make a small harness that takes the signals of all the speakers at the ASD (yes, they are all there). That is a lot easier to install because the ASD is where you put the amp! (no need for a harness going all the way to the head-unit). It took some time because I had to deliver them the serial numbers of the ASD plug and then vacation etc.
Also this small harness creates an installation that has the exact same sequence as an OEM Hifi setup: HU > ASD > AMP > SPEAKERS. The harness is being shipped from USA to Poland, and then to me. ETA: not sure
I'm looking forward to the install and finally to test my new setup!

Hi GeertB, who did you ask for the new small harness from Bimmertech? i would like to get one too. And how is your new setup compare to the original bimmertech harness?

Have you found out how the audio signals pass through ASD, HU, AMP and Speakers with the original bimmertech harness?

Thanks!

[GeertB]

Bimmertech made the harness. I think they asked Technic to do it.
I haven't installed it yet. I have a few days off between Christmas and new year. So I am planning the install then. I wil certainly post updates here!

[LittleBlackHawk]

Originally Posted by GeertB

Bimmertech made the harness. I think they asked Technic to do it.
I haven't installed it yet. I have a few days off between Christmas and new year. So I am planning the install then. I wil certainly post updates here!

Ya, looking forward to hear from you!

[beanbaguk]

A little update from my side....

Last weekend I installed my NBT HU into the car and straight off the quality difference is out of the world.

The CHAMP2 aux input filters the sound in some way and really does take a huge amount away from the quality.

I'm currently using the USB lightning cable to connect up using the Spotify app and the quality is outstanding.

My next problem...the under seat subs. With a lot of bass, a burning smell appears in the car so they are definitely struggling!

I just need to decide which to get...

So in a nutshell;

- CHAMP2 + Bimmertech Premium Amp = OK audio

- NBT + Bimmertech Premium Amp = Insanely awesome audio

[GeertB]

So I finished up the upgrade today. This time I needed 16h to do the job. But I had previously installed the center channel.

All the speakers are BAVsound:
Tweeters:




In their new housings:



Don't forget the inline filters:




Ready to be installed:

[GeertB]

Midrange speakers for front and rear doors:






Blue cable goes to the existing harness. Black to the tweeters. I didn't install tweeters in the rear doors. I just did a complete hifi config installation:
1 center
2 tweeters in the front doors
2 midrange in front doors
2 midrange in rear doors
2 subs

The subs:




Second hand hifi subs I bought to put the ghost subs in:


Ready to be installed:


And last but not least: the sound deadening:

[GeertB]

Next to the BAVsound speaker, obviously i have the bimmertech amp. First I received the standard base to hifi harness:


But by reading a lot of topics here, I learned that if you have a base stereo system and have ASD, you don't need to install a new harness going from the HU to the amp. All the wires you need are allready at the ASD. And the ASD is on the bracket for the amp. So some emails back and forth to bimmertech, and after I send my base to hifi harness back, I received a small harness that plugs in the ASD:

Items with a red cross were sent back: