[G.Newt]

Originally Posted by dinan5m3

Good grief...

So, just for sake of argument, and if this even is a valid argument to make:

Take two fuels.

Both have same RON and MON so that both fuels have equal AKI of 93 octane rating, "but" one has 0% E and the other has 10% E.

If i'm allowed to continue to next step, then:

Would me adding 10% Ethanol to that fuel with 0% Ethanol yield the same result (fuel) as the other second fuel with 10% Ethanol in it?

Again, the 93 with E10 already has that 10% ethanol accounted for as part of its octane rating.

If you take unleaded E0 93 fuel and add ethanol to it, you would increase the octane rating further.

[dinan5m3]

Originally Posted by G.Newt

Again, the 93 with E10 already has that 10% ethanol accounted for as part of its octane rating.

If you take unleaded E0 93 fuel and add ethanol to it, you would increase the octane rating further.

After all this i'll get a degree from department of energy, good grief...

I think i'm getting bit of hang of this, i get it, i.e.

Regular gas (E0) + 10% Ethanol is not the same as blended gas with same pump octane number with 10% Ethanol

Right, Ethanol raises octane rating but when they blend ethanol they start with a "lower" octane "base" fuel.

Damn, i'm going to try the 93 E0 at local BP and add my own 10% E from VP can for my own blend of 93 E10. That has to be "better" than the 93 E10 from local Shell.

I just (stupidly) assumed reading E10 on ECA means i have 10% blend of Ethanol of 93 E10, which i do, but that's not the whole story.

[IMS-340C]

Long story short...

Fuel using E to reach 93 = same timing corrections as 93 fuel with 0% E.

Add E until timing corrections are minimal.

Add E as long as Timing Advance is increasing.

Add E if you want to run a higher tune.

Adding E more than needed for Timing Corrections/Timing Advance/Using higher Tune > will reduce power.

Originally Posted by dinan5m3

After all this i'll get a degree from department of energy, good grief...

I think i'm getting bit of hang of this, i get it, i.e.

Regular gas (E0) + 10% Ethanol is not the same as blended gas with same pump octane number with 10% Ethanol

Right, Ethanol raises octane rating but when they blend ethanol they start with a "lower" octane "base" fuel.

Damn, i'm going to try the 93 E0 at local BP and add my own 10% E from VP can for my own blend of 93 E10. That has to be "better" than the 93 E10 from local Shell.

I just (stupidly) assumed reading E10 on ECA means i have 10% blend of Ethanol of 93 E10, which i do, but that's not the whole story.

[markoz28]

Originally Posted by IMS-340C

Long story short...

Fuel using E to reach 93 = same timing corrections as 93 fuel with 0% E.

Add E until timing corrections are minimal.

Add E as long as Timing Advance is increasing.

Add E if you want to run a higher tune.

Adding E more than needed for Timing Corrections/Timing Advance/Using higher Tune > will reduce power.

Currently on stage 1 91 BM3 tune. I’m running either Exxon/Sunoco 93. This is the best in my area and I’m making about 8 degrees of timing. I added 2 gallons of E to 13 gallons of 93. If corrections get better and I make more timing then I’ll go to stage 2 93 tune. Depending how things look, I may scale down to 1 gallon of E to 14 gallons of 93 and taper up as needed until I hit the sweet spot (whatever that may be).

[IMS-340C]

Yeah 8 degrees at 6500 RPM is low, B58 works best at 12 degrees and above.

Increase E until you get to 12 degrees at 6500 RPM.

Originally Posted by markoz28

Currently on stage 1 91 BM3 tune. I’m running either Exxon/Sunoco 93. This is the best in my area and I’m making about 8 degrees of timing. I added 2 gallons of E to 13 gallons of 93. If corrections get better and I make more timing then I’ll go to stage 2 93 tune. Depending how things look, I may scale down to 1 gallon of E to 14 gallons of 93 and taper up as needed until I hit the sweet spot (whatever that may be).

[Jnat]

Originally Posted by IMS-340C

Nice thanks, but why are you adding boostane if you have Ethanol ? do you have any logs ?

This log taken with 93oct mixed with 1 Boostane shot and two gallons of ethanol...

https://datazap.me/sites/default/fil...t%202.msg_.csv

[IMS-340C]

Finally but you have to set the log as public so other people can view it.

Originally Posted by Jnat

This log taken with 93oct mixed with 1 Boostane shot and two gallons of ethanol...

https://datazap.me/sites/default/fil...t%202.msg_.csv

[Jnat]

Originally Posted by IMS-340C

Finally but you have to set the log as public so other people can view it.

https://datazap.me/u/nat/log-1650877740

Yes?

[Skyhigh]

Not an expert on this (yet) but 2 things I notice:
- Quite severe knock correction at the beginning? It then clears up....
- 21 Psi boost target?? Wow, this tune is really asking the stock turbo to sweat.... Not sure how well this works together with a catted DP, MHD recommend Stage 2 only with catless. Whilst many run Stage 2 with high-flow catted, you are using the most aggressive Stage 2+ OTS map offered... Just something to consider. Do you at least have an upgraded exhaust system? (e.g. valved one that goes to straight-pipe mode when needed)?

Curious to read the opinions of the more experienced on the points above.

[IMS-340C]

Looking great timing reaching 17 degrees at 6200 RPM with no corrections, only negative timing is struggling and un-uniformed at top end.

Also tune is asking for too much boost from 3500 to 3900 RPM.

I would add another half a gallon Ethanol.

Also add LOAD ACTUAL RAM from log parameters options.

Originally Posted by Jnat

https://datazap.me/u/nat/log-1650877740

Yes?

[IMS-340C]

I wouldn't call it severe but definitely something to point out and a concern.

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

- Quite severe knock correction at the beginning? It then clears up....

[Jnat]

Originally Posted by IMS-340C

Looking great timing reaching 17 degrees at 6200 RPM with no corrections, only negative timing is struggling and un-uniformed at top end.

Also tune is asking for too much boost from 3500 to 3900 RPM.

I would add another half a gallon Ethanol.

Also add LOAD ACTUAL RAM from log parameters options.

Your timing thought is based on not 17 across the board at higher rpm?
I'm not sure what to make of the timing delta adaptation at onset on this log.
It clears up and is not something i normally see.
What's your thought on that?
Is that why you recommended adding a little more ethanol?

[Jnat]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

Not an expert on this (yet) but 2 things I notice:
- Quite severe knock correction at the beginning? It then clears up....
- 21 Psi boost target?? Wow, this tune is really asking the stock turbo to sweat.... Not sure how well this works together with a catted DP, MHD recommend Stage 2 only with catless. Whilst many run Stage 2 with high-flow catted, you are using the most aggressive Stage 2+ OTS map offered... Just something to consider. Do you at least have an upgraded exhaust system? (e.g. valved one that goes to straight-pipe mode when needed)?

Curious to read the opinions of the more experienced on the points above.

I normally don't see that correction on timing delta in my logs, wasn't sure what to make of it this time around.
Your thought?
Agreed, very aggressive map and it's possibly too much for catted, not sure i guess we'll see...

[Skyhigh]

You are saying the appreciable correction on timing delta on low-mid RPMs is not present in your other logs? If that's the case - just ignore it, but I would do at least 3-4 logs with the same setup and fuel to conclude that.

The Map - unless you want to go custom and have it dialled down a bit, I'd at least be considering catless (if that's something you can and want to do) and/or turbo upgrade.... or just using a less aggressive OTS tune.

I am far from that dilemma, unfortunately, but I think I would just go down to a less aggressive OTS map with less boost target, which would most likely solve any timing delta corrections you may be having as well as give your turbo some margin.

[IMS-340C]

Yes Timing advance normally increase with RPM and ideally should be equal in all cylinders through the RPM range.

Timing Delta for Knock Adaptation should be close to zero as possible, you have it at -2 between 3500 and 3900 RPM.

You should do another log to check if it clears up.

Adding some more Ethanol for fixing both timing advance at high RPM and Timing Delta at low RPM.

Originally Posted by Jnat

Your timing thought is based on not 17 across the board at higher rpm?
I'm not sure what to make of the timing delta adaptation at onset on this log.
It clears up and is not something i normally see.
What's your thought on that?
Is that why you recommended adding a little more ethanol?

[B58]

Just want to verify with those running a Dorch pump, do you hear a buzzing sound coming into the cabin when cruising at lower rpm's? I hear a strange low pitch buzzing sound and this started after swapping to the Dorch stage 2. I have the insulation and everything installed, but once you go under a load even at a 1/4 throttle that low pitch sound disappears.

[Jnat]

My latest log
MHD E40 Stg2+ with Boostane and ethanol

https://datazap.me/u/nat/log-1651223276?log=0&data=3-19

[IMS-340C]

The link is to download log not view it.

How long have you been using Boostane I read that one shot per tank is not good for spark plugs ?

Originally Posted by Jnat

My latest log
MHD E40 Stg2+ with Boostane and ethanol

https://datazap.me/sites/default/fil...gs/Nat/E40.csv

[Jnat]

Originally Posted by IMS-340C

The link is to download log not view it.

How long have you been using Boostane I read that one shot per tank is not good for spark plugs ?

https://datazap.me/u/nat/log-1651223276?log=0&data=3-19

I have just started to use it but it comes highly recommended from a few fellow enthusiasts that use it on veh such as Hellcats and Vette's in my area. Their feedback is yes they get an orange color associated with the MMT on plugs and they change the plugs out slightly more then they used to, say instead of every 15k they do them every 10-12k.

[IMS-340C]

Still you linked the download, you have to copy the address bar when you open the log.

Anyway log looks great only comment surprisingly it has less boost than HPFP 95 map.

Originally Posted by Jnat

https://datazap.me/sites/default/fil.../Nat/E40_0.csv

I have just started to use it but it comes highly recommended from a few fellow enthusiasts that use it on veh such as Hellcats and Vette's in my area. Their feedback is yes they get an orange color associated with the MMT on plugs and they change the plugs out slightly more then they used to, say instead of every 15k they do them every 10-12k.

[Jnat]

Originally Posted by IMS-340C

Still you linked the download, you have to copy the address bar when you open the log.

Anyway log looks great only comment surprisingly it has less boost than HPFP 95 map.

Thanks, i thought so also... i feel like i want the 95 map to work for me but i do see more disturbance in that map on my car, always have, even on the basic 95 stg 2 map.

Think i got it now, lol...

https://datazap.me/u/nat/log-1651223276?log=0&data=3-19

[IMS-340C]

Strange 95 maps are not working well for you, try increasing Ethanol and log again someday.

It seems sharing a log is more difficult than making 95 maps to work but yeah you got it

Originally Posted by Jnat

Thanks, i thought so also... i feel like i want the 95 map to work for me but i do see more disturbance in that map on my car, always have, even on the basic 95 stg 2 map.

Think i got it now, lol...

https://datazap.me/u/nat/log-1651223276?log=0&data=3-19