Returning Car To Trader

Bmwguy82 · 10-20-2020, 03:19 PM

Hi Guys,
I purchased a BMW for £18k from a car trader/dealer 6 days ago. I p/x'd my other car (No issues at all, was perfect) for £16500 and paid the rest by card. Today I took the car to a bmw independent and he noted excessive turbo noise and oil leak from turbo breather pipe. I also have a whirling and vibrating noise sometimes when i come to a full stop but mechanic couldn't replicate it.

I also took it to the bodyshop and they stated the rear bumper has been painted, the front passenger wing has scratches and the front bumper has been freshly painted and they did a really bad job (very rough and pain drip).

I travelled 180 miles to view the car and weather forecast was fine but it started raining heavily when I got there so must have missed the front bumper paint quality.
I contacted the dealer stating I want to reject the car as it's within 30 days of purchasing the car but he was being rude and stating "go ahead and take legal action.. I've been through this many times". He said legally he has a chance to fix it and offered to fix my issues.. I stated the bodywork and he said "cars get painted all the time". When i signed the papers there was a tickbox that stated happy with bodywork which I was at the time until i got it fully inspected. I think he thinks that will cover him.

Personally I feel like this car has been in an accident and don't feel safe.. The issues with the car don't help either. The dealer isn't very helpful when I mention returning the vehicle.

I'm happy for them to keep my old car and just get a full refund.. Can you guys please help? I don't know what to do!

Watsey · 10-20-2020, 03:38 PM

Why do people do this ?

So you bought a car from a trader, didn't inspect it properly, didn't get an independent vehicle inspection done (bodywork, interior, chassis, drivetrain) before parting with your cash, ticked the "I'm happy" box, and now realise that it's not what you thought it was ?

What did the trader's advert state ? Do you still have a copy of the ad ? What's the vehicle mileage ? Full BMW service history (I'm guessing that's a "no") ? Was the car sold with a reputable third-party warranty ?

It doesn't matter what you think, it's about your statutory rights and what you can prove.

In the trader's shoes I'd say he has a strong case to reject your issues regarding the bodywork. You ticked the box and paid for the car 'as-is'.

A potentially blown turbo is a fault that a non-trade customer wouldn't normally be expected to be able to diagnose on the spot, and regardless of whether the trader agrees to rectify/replace the turbo it may well point towards a car that's been ragged.

If the trader got your car + £1500 I think he got the better deal.

Good luck.

Bmwguy82 · 10-20-2020, 04:01 PM

Its a 2015 335d with 70k miles and full bmw service history

robbiep · 10-20-2020, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR1664

They get home and realise on closer inspection the car isn't as advertised ?

The buyer has redress, not sure why your post is so aggressive . Its back to the dealer to sort out this clusterfuck

Well, it's a used car, and obviously going to be in used condition. The buyer had opportunity to inspect the bodywork, and failed to do so. They signed to say they were happy, and are now saying that isn't the case.

The turbo is 'noisy', there appears to be an oil leak from a turbo breather pipe, and there is a 'whirling and vibrating noise' which a mechanic couldn't replicate.

None of these are really a 'fault' under the CRA legislation.

I'm really not sure the buyer has any grounds to reject the car at all.

It sounds more like 'buyer's remorse' to me

C320 · 10-20-2020, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmwguy82

Its a 2015 335d with 70k miles and full bmw service history

Some depends upon what the sellers policy is with respect to returns, many reputable traders do offer a form of 30 day no quibble returns policy. However, if the trader you purchased from doesn't and you collected the car in person it is a little trickier to resolve. However, if you had purchased online and had it delivered then it's a little different.

I've helped a family member reject a used car and they initially had a similar response from the seller. However, legally from memory the seller should be given an opportunity to rectify the faults/defects. If you don't offer them a chance to do so, your request for a refund can come across as just being 'buyers remorse'

Issues with bodywork / paint on what is a close to 7 year old car may be trickier to get resolved but I'm pretty certain that any mechanical faults that would have been present at the time of sale must be resolved. Again, as I say you should really give them a chance to resolve.

When I helped my sister-in-law the seller tried to repair the fault twice, at first it appeared to be fine, but it transpired they just reset the warning lights / cleared fault codes. After the second failed attempt, we suggested that we took the vehicle to a Mercedes specialist for diagnosis and rectification. They refused, so we pushed hard and got a full refund (this trader also said he'd see us in court!).

One final word of caution, with regards to the specialist you went to - have you used them before and are they well known to you? Why did you take the car in after 6 days, was it there because of the 'whirling and vibrating' noise you heard? It could be that they are seeing an opportunity to make some money out of you by pointing out issues.

JR1664 · 10-20-2020, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbiep

The turbo is 'noisy', there appears to be an oil leak from a turbo breather pipe, and there is a 'whirling and vibrating noise' which a mechanic couldn't replicate.

None of these are really a 'fault' under the CRA legislation.

Oh right, people routinely buy £18k cars and oil leaks from turbo breather pipes are normal ? Notwithstanding a mechanic couldn't replicate noises yet as the owner he could..plus a dodgy paint job to boot.

Give me strength.

..perhaps I'm out of touch

330XDave · 10-20-2020, 04:28 PM

SantaEugence · 10-20-2020, 04:44 PM

Best thing you can do is get some (qualified) legal advice - easiest source would usually be legal cover on your home insurance or motor insurance. If you haven't added it on then ask them anyway as some will still provide you with legal advice even if you haven't taken the policy.

Right to reject within 30 days isn't dependent on allowing seller a chance to repair, in fact it pauses if you do give them the chance to repair it.
Mechanical faults could easily come under 'not satisfactory quality' CRA.
Your bigger problem would be rejecting the car, having to drop it back to the trader because he's ignoring you, then not getting a refund, suing, and trader closes down starts up again and you're left without your trade in car and £18k out of pocket.

How did you pay the outstanding balance, credit card?

Fez_7 · 10-20-2020, 05:01 PM

I'd strongly suggest you urgently look into your consumer rights to see what options you have available to you. Speak to your local Citizens Advice Bureau if necessary.

Without doing any research on your rights my initial thoughts re: the 'mechanical faults' are that you would have to give the trader a chance to repair before being able to reject the vehicle unless it was clearly agreed that you would have a refund period should you change your mind about the car. He could argue there not faults as such and that they are wear and tear for a used car. For example, technically the turbo hasn't blown yet and if it did later then you could look to claim this on the warranty if you got one?

RE: the paintwork, ultimately you have signed at the point of sale that you were happy with the condition of the vehicle. He is correct in terms of cars do get painted all the time, eg. a panel respray after a bump, this is nothing out of the ordinary. You should however be able to reject the car if it was advertised as HPI clear when it actually isn't.

I totally get that it's very disappointing and frustrating to be in your situation but I also get it from the traders point of view too in terms of he has successfully advertised and sold the car but is now all of a sudden expected to provide you with a full refund even though the car will now be worth less, since you will be down as another owner. Unfortunately this is part of the risk of buying 2nd hand.

I do hope everything works out for you though!

drykoke · 10-20-2020, 05:17 PM

Keep calm. It's nothing complicated.

1) Obtain independent inspection that documents all the problems.

2) Check this against what was advertised, and what sort of warranty or reassurances were given by the trader.

Go back to the trader with the list of problems, particularly the items that do not match what was advertised.

If there is serious mechanical fault then the trader is liable to effect a repair.
Paintwork and bumpers - unfortunately you are on weak ground here, unless the trader specifically advertised is as having no previous repairs.

robbiep · 10-20-2020, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR1664

Oh right, people routinely buy £18k cars and oil leaks from turbo breather pipes are normal ? Notwithstanding a mechanic couldn't replicate noises yet as the owner he could..plus a dodgy paint job to boot.

Give me strength.

..perhaps I'm out of touch

Perhaps you are.

I'll repeat it : A 'noisy' turbo, for example. It's not faulty. The car works perfectly fine. There is, therefore, no 'fault'.
If the turbo fails in a few weeks, then yes, it was 'faulty'. But it could keep on going for the next 5 years like that.
The other 'faults' which are 'whirling and vibrating noises'. Ditto. Especially as the mechanic couldn't replicate them.
The paint job. 'Dodgy', or just 'not brilliantly done' ? Either way, if it was clearly visible (the OP says it is 'really rough with paint drips') then it was obvious from the start.
And as for complaining about 'scratches' (no mention of how deep, etc) on a front wing on a 5 yr old, 70k car ... well, if they didn't stand out at the time of purchase, then they can't be that bad. Or the buyer just didn't inspect the car at all. Caveat emptor.
Now the turbo breather pipe oil leak. Some turbos use oil. There is an 'acceptable usage' of oil from every manufacturer (VAG have been notorious for this for a number of years), and some of that oil will end up going into the turbo, and (hopefully) coming out via the breather pipe. If the oil usage is within those limits, then there is no 'fault'.
The turbo breather pipe is actually doing it's job as designed, in letting the system 'breathe', and stopping the oil from contaminating the catalytic converter !

So yes, maybe it's you.

KRS_SN · 10-20-2020, 05:29 PM

you've uncovered a few problems what else is lurking underneath. From my past experiences where I have blown money on a car that I was dissatisfied with and in the end sold after a while at a great loss. In hindsight if it was me and I could afford to I would want rid of the car one way or another even at a loss so I can sleep easy.

Bmwguy82 · 10-20-2020, 05:42 PM

Wow guys thank you all so much for trying to help! Really appreciate it!!

I Paid the remaining amount by card.

I guess with paintwork I only have myself to blame! The rain really didn't help.

The whirling/vibrating noise goes away when i turn the steering but comes back when i let go. The noise seems to be coming from the left side of the engine.

I will speak to the trader tomorrow to ask what he's willing to do with regards to the turbos. Keep you guys updated!

Once again thank you all!!

NISFAN · 10-20-2020, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fez_7

I'd strongly suggest you urgently look into your consumer rights to see what options you have available to you. Speak to your local Citizens Advice Bureau if necessary.

Without doing any research on your rights my initial thoughts re: the 'mechanical faults' are that you would have to give the trader a chance to repair before being able to reject the vehicle unless it was clearly agreed that you would have a refund period should you change your mind about the car. He could argue there not faults as such and that they are wear and tear for a used car. For example, technically the turbo hasn't blown yet and if it did later then you could look to claim this on the warranty if you got one?

RE: the paintwork, ultimately you have signed at the point of sale that you were happy with the condition of the vehicle. He is correct in terms of cars do get painted all the time, eg. a panel respray after a bump, this is nothing out of the ordinary. You should however be able to reject the car if it was advertised as HPI clear when it actually isn't.

I totally get that it's very disappointing and frustrating to be in your situation but I also get it from the traders point of view too in terms of he has successfully advertised and sold the car but is now all of a sudden expected to provide you with a full refund even though the car will now be worth less, since you will be down as another owner. Unfortunately this is part of the risk of buying 2nd hand.

I do hope everything works out for you though!

Typical damage repair is not recorded on HPI, only insurance write off's are.

The OP has no redress on the painted panels unless there is proof of a substandard bodge. Many 2015 70k mile cars will have had some paint in their lives. That's no reason to reject a used car. Scratches are as seen as was the whole car. Also assuming a test drive was taken and that was OK?

So you are down to a noisy turbo (turbos make noise, so unless some physical fault is found, I don't see that as being an easy problem to demonstrate to a judge....remember that test drive?), Oil in a breather (Probably pretty normal on a high mileage car) and occasionally noisy brakes (reading many posts over the years, pretty common on these cars). A trader must provide some sort of warranty, so if the turbo were to fail in the warranty period, or anything else for that matter, that would be covered. Car has a valid MOT I assume, carried out prior to sale.

The biggest issue and a warning for all, as it's seems such a common practice in these types of threads, is buying a car from afar. Never do this especially on a travel to collect basis. I've bought enough used cars in my life to know, they always look worse the second time you see them. Always.

It'll be a right PITA trudging up and down allowing the seller to fix it. I can't imagine the stress leaving a car with someone you've rubbed up the wrong way, waiting for them to fix it. Plus the inconvenience of being carless far from home. Courtesy cars are not mandatory.
Probably best thing OP can do is take it for inspection at a local BMW service centre. Cost of inspection will be for OP's account, and might not highlight any fault worth pursuing. But if there is a fault, submitting the report and asking for repairs to be covered by the seller, repaired local to buyer. You'd have to play nice with the seller for them to agree.....perhaps that ship has sailed?!?!?

Or just suck it up and chalk it down to experience.

OP what does WBAC value it at?

330XDave · 10-21-2020, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NISFAN

.
The biggest issue and a warning for all, as it's seems such a common practice in these types of threads, is buying a car from afar. Never do this especially on a travel to collect basis. I've bought enough used cars in my life to know, they always look worse the second time you see them. Always.

Or just be prepared to walk away from it. I travelled 150 miles on Christmas Eve last year to collect a 530d and got there to find it had deep scratches on the front and rear bumpers. I walked away. I lost all trust in the dealer. To be honest it caused me a right load of hassle as the car had already been paid for by a 3rd party finance company but ultimately cost me nothing but the fuel up and down. Obviously avoidable if you are paying in a fashion similar to the OP.

Russbmw · 10-21-2020, 02:59 AM

I'm assuming it's an independent car dealer, and not a BMW approved used? I saw someone else asked the question, but skimming through I can't seem to see the answer.

I've had experience of both.

In short:

1) If it's from a BMW dealer, you'd stand a good chance of having it sorted out. I have done in the past, paintwork and all. Won't go into details as it's too much to write out.

2) If it's from an independent trader, forget it. Bodywork, tough shit. Mechanically, unless something actually fails or falls off, you will be pissing into the wind trying to get them to sort it out. Also bear in mind that if they did, they'd be using the cheapest parts they could get their hands on and it'll be a rush job - similar thoughts to NISFAN's post above really.

I bought an e46 many moons ago and it looked mint, then a month later when I was stripping the boot out for an audio install, I noticed the metalwork behind the rear quarter looked like it'd been gone at with a tin opener. Immediately started looking all over - pulled the side valence off the sill and the whole thing was rusted to fuck behind it. It had had a sizeable wallop and the rear quarter replaced - badly, as they'd blocked the drain holes and hence it was rusting from the inside out.

Approached the trader about it because they'd said it was all clean, hadn't been in any accidents, etc, and got told to fuck off. Sold as seen. All the same things you will have, or will do.

I went through the Consumer Rights outfit, and CAB, everyone offers lots of advice. They'll tell you to put it all in writing to the trader. Then do it again when you et no response, will tell you all the consumer rights you have and what the dealer SHOULD do.

BUT...and it's a bloody big but.........when it came to the crunch of having to take further action - which will be because the trader will not be playing ball and wont' respond to your letters or threats of action, you will be left facing the trader on your own - nobody out there will be backing you in terms of your argument or financially; and as I found out, you have to be pretty keen, have a completely water-tight case against the trader, and deep pockets to drag it through courts. I fucked the idea off.....and despite having ploughed about £600 or so into having all the rust cut out, new sections welded in and respraying nearly the whole side of the car so it was perfect, I decided to sell it on.

IMO, your options are simply sell the car on, or get a quote to re-do the bodywork (I can't imagine it'd be that bad if it's just a bumper). A repainted bumper does not make the car a deathtrap, so unless you've discovered the bonnet/wing gaps are all wrong and there's evidence of things being bent about in the engine bay, then I wouldn't worry about it too much - could have been something as simple as an asshole in a car park driving into the car and then scarpering, leaving the owner to stump the repair bill. Mechanically, he's offered to fix it - so what's the problem there? There is nothing actually properly wrong or broken by the sounds of it, s o if you're worried about a bill in future, then perhaps investigate an aftermarket warranty after the trader has had a look at it?

OldGit21 · 10-21-2020, 03:08 AM

Have a look at this link, it gives a good idea of what you can reject a car on in the first 30 days:
https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/rejecting-a-car/

Best of luck with whichever route you choose.

Russbmw · 10-21-2020, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldGit21

Have a look at this link, it gives a good idea of what you can reject a car on in the first 30 days:
https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/rejecting-a-car/

Best of luck with whichever route you choose.

All well and good - have you tried enforcing any of the advice in that?!

You (not you, specifically......the OP in this instance really) can have all the grounds (or so you believe) to reject a car. In this instance the car has had a cosmetic repair that wasn't noticed at the time of sale. Wasn't recorded by any insurance company. Also has a slight oil leak and a noise that cant' be replicated by any mechanic....but both of which the trader has said he'd fix.

You got to the trader and state this.

He tells you do go do one.

Now it's case of how much money, time and stress are you going to throw at dragging him through court......and just how confident are you that your grounds for rejection are completely founded?

Armaan · 10-21-2020, 03:32 AM

Not going to add a lot of value to what has been said, but from your initial post the main issue is that you've traded in a well looked after, perfectly running car for something that may have had a harder 5 year and 70k life - that may be why you are noticing many of the noises and slight mechanical issues. Give them a chance to rectify, but I doubt anything will be done about a loud turbo - should have been noticed on a test drive?

Regarding paintwork - not a hope on this. Personally I'd never sign anything to say I'm satisfied with it if it was raining - God's polish I think they call it.

Lesson probably to learn from this is that you could have had an AA inspection on the car beforehand? I think it's around £300 and they even test drive it and inspect the paintwork. Could have saved you a lot of time, but not experienced it myself to say how good they are.

Armaan

Fez_7 · 10-21-2020, 08:33 AM

I agree with what's been said above. @NISFAN, that's the point I was trying to make re: the paintwork, OP won't get anywhere as he has signed to say he was happy with it and a respray for a bump does not make the car a death trap. OP would only have some form of recourse if it had actually been in a proper accident and registered as a write-off but then sold as HPI clear when it actually isn't, for example (which doesn't appear to be the case here).

I also agree with the point being made about having to make the decision as to whether you are prepared to take the matter to court if you don't get anywhere with the trader. I once bought a car advertised with 2 keys but later realised the 2nd was actually for a different car! It was a BMW fob so I just assumed the battery was dead but when I tried the key blade it didn't fit my car. I emailed the trader who tried to deny advertising the car with 2 keys so I got Autotrader to email me a copy of the advert. I forwarded this to him with a Letter of Claim, basically asking him to supply me with the correct key or pay for a replacement otherwise he would leave me with no option but to issue court proceedings. He ran this past his solicitor and then paid BMW directly for my replacement key order. As it was clear cut I would have taken him to court had he not complied but only because I already have legal experience of dealing with claims. Obviously if the evidence was less clear cut then it's very risky to go to court as you have to pay for the claim yourself with no guarantee of winning or recovering your costs and the court will also want to see evidence that you have exhausted every other avenue to try and resolve the issue first.

ZedsRedBaby · 10-21-2020, 08:54 AM

I agree with the key points made by various posters.

Just to add - your best chance of getting a decent outcome is to be as polite, patient and reasonable as you possibly can be with the trader. Any talk of rejection, legal action etc will put his back up and he'll be straight into fuck off mode.

The fact he says "I've been through this many times" probably tells you all you need to know.

Russbmw · 10-21-2020, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZedsRedBaby

I agree with the key points made by various posters.

Just to add - your best chance of getting a decent outcome is to be as polite, patient and reasonable as you possibly can be with the trader. Any talk of rejection, legal action etc will put his back up and he'll be straight into fuck off mode.

The fact he says "I've been through this many times" probably tells you all you need to know.

Absolutely.

10-20-2020, 03:19 PM	#1
Bmwguy82 Private 14 Rep 67 Posts Drives: BMW F30 335d Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Leeds iTrader: (1)	Returning Car To Trader Hi Guys, I purchased a BMW for £18k from a car trader/dealer 6 days ago. I p/x'd my other car (No issues at all, was perfect) for £16500 and paid the rest by card. Today I took the car to a bmw independent and he noted excessive turbo noise and oil leak from turbo breather pipe. I also have a whirling and vibrating noise sometimes when i come to a full stop but mechanic couldn't replicate it. I also took it to the bodyshop and they stated the rear bumper has been painted, the front passenger wing has scratches and the front bumper has been freshly painted and they did a really bad job (very rough and pain drip). I travelled 180 miles to view the car and weather forecast was fine but it started raining heavily when I got there so must have missed the front bumper paint quality. I contacted the dealer stating I want to reject the car as it's within 30 days of purchasing the car but he was being rude and stating "go ahead and take legal action.. I've been through this many times". He said legally he has a chance to fix it and offered to fix my issues.. I stated the bodywork and he said "cars get painted all the time". When i signed the papers there was a tickbox that stated happy with bodywork which I was at the time until i got it fully inspected. I think he thinks that will cover him. Personally I feel like this car has been in an accident and don't feel safe.. The issues with the car don't help either. The dealer isn't very helpful when I mention returning the vehicle. I'm happy for them to keep my old car and just get a full refund.. Can you guys please help? I don't know what to do!
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10-20-2020, 03:38 PM	#2
Watsey Major General 6407 Rep 8,495 Posts Drives: F31 330D sDrive M Sport Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: On sabbatical. iTrader: (1)	Why do people do this ? So you bought a car from a trader, didn't inspect it properly, didn't get an independent vehicle inspection done (bodywork, interior, chassis, drivetrain) before parting with your cash, ticked the "I'm happy" box, and now realise that it's not what you thought it was ? What did the trader's advert state ? Do you still have a copy of the ad ? What's the vehicle mileage ? Full BMW service history (I'm guessing that's a "no") ? Was the car sold with a reputable third-party warranty ? It doesn't matter what you think, it's about your statutory rights and what you can prove. In the trader's shoes I'd say he has a strong case to reject your issues regarding the bodywork. You ticked the box and paid for the car 'as-is'. A potentially blown turbo is a fault that a non-trade customer wouldn't normally be expected to be able to diagnose on the spot, and regardless of whether the trader agrees to rectify/replace the turbo it may well point towards a car that's been ragged. If the trader got your car + £1500 I think he got the better deal. Good luck. __________________ Current : F31 330sD, remapped, Ohlins Road & Track, Millway camber plates, Quaife LSD, Stoptech brakes + Pagid RSL1 pads all round, Weichers front strut brace, Eibach front & rear anti-roll bars, Michelin MP4S.
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10-20-2020, 04:01 PM	#3
Bmwguy82 Private 14 Rep 67 Posts Drives: BMW F30 335d Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Leeds iTrader: (1)	Its a 2015 335d with 70k miles and full bmw service history
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10-20-2020, 04:28 PM	#7
330XDave Major 629 Rep 1,470 Posts Drives: 330d xDrive Touring Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Nottingham, UK iTrader: (0)
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10-20-2020, 04:44 PM	#8
SantaEugence Major 475 Rep 1,325 Posts Drives: F30 330d xDrive Auto Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Best thing you can do is get some (qualified) legal advice - easiest source would usually be legal cover on your home insurance or motor insurance. If you haven't added it on then ask them anyway as some will still provide you with legal advice even if you haven't taken the policy. Right to reject within 30 days isn't dependent on allowing seller a chance to repair, in fact it pauses if you do give them the chance to repair it. Mechanical faults could easily come under 'not satisfactory quality' CRA. Your bigger problem would be rejecting the car, having to drop it back to the trader because he's ignoring you, then not getting a refund, suing, and trader closes down starts up again and you're left without your trade in car and £18k out of pocket. How did you pay the outstanding balance, credit card?
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10-20-2020, 05:01 PM	#9
Fez_7 Second Lieutenant 67 Rep 223 Posts Drives: BMW F30 Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: West Yorkshire iTrader: (0)	I'd strongly suggest you urgently look into your consumer rights to see what options you have available to you. Speak to your local Citizens Advice Bureau if necessary. Without doing any research on your rights my initial thoughts re: the 'mechanical faults' are that you would have to give the trader a chance to repair before being able to reject the vehicle unless it was clearly agreed that you would have a refund period should you change your mind about the car. He could argue there not faults as such and that they are wear and tear for a used car. For example, technically the turbo hasn't blown yet and if it did later then you could look to claim this on the warranty if you got one? RE: the paintwork, ultimately you have signed at the point of sale that you were happy with the condition of the vehicle. He is correct in terms of cars do get painted all the time, eg. a panel respray after a bump, this is nothing out of the ordinary. You should however be able to reject the car if it was advertised as HPI clear when it actually isn't. I totally get that it's very disappointing and frustrating to be in your situation but I also get it from the traders point of view too in terms of he has successfully advertised and sold the car but is now all of a sudden expected to provide you with a full refund even though the car will now be worth less, since you will be down as another owner. Unfortunately this is part of the risk of buying 2nd hand. I do hope everything works out for you though! __________________ BMW F30 320D EfficientDynamics Stage 1 remap, EGR delete, 398 alloys, tinted windows, M Sport front bumper, M Performance grilles, M Performance spoiler, gloss black mirrors, tail light tints, debadged.
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10-20-2020, 05:17 PM	#10
drykoke Private First Class 87 Rep 146 Posts Drives: Peugeot 408 1.2GT Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Norfolk iTrader: (0)	Keep calm. It's nothing complicated. 1) Obtain independent inspection that documents all the problems. 2) Check this against what was advertised, and what sort of warranty or reassurances were given by the trader. Go back to the trader with the list of problems, particularly the items that do not match what was advertised. If there is serious mechanical fault then the trader is liable to effect a repair. Paintwork and bumpers - unfortunately you are on weak ground here, unless the trader specifically advertised is as having no previous repairs.
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10-20-2020, 05:29 PM	#12
KRS_SN Major General 13515 Rep 5,207 Posts Drives: IX,G07 Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Glasgow iTrader: (0) Garage List 2020 X7 [10.00] X5 [8.50] IX [8.00]	you've uncovered a few problems what else is lurking underneath. From my past experiences where I have blown money on a car that I was dissatisfied with and in the end sold after a while at a great loss. In hindsight if it was me and I could afford to I would want rid of the car one way or another even at a loss so I can sleep easy.
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10-20-2020, 05:42 PM	#13
Bmwguy82 Private 14 Rep 67 Posts Drives: BMW F30 335d Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Leeds iTrader: (1)	Wow guys thank you all so much for trying to help! Really appreciate it!! I Paid the remaining amount by card. I guess with paintwork I only have myself to blame! The rain really didn't help. The whirling/vibrating noise goes away when i turn the steering but comes back when i let go. The noise seems to be coming from the left side of the engine. I will speak to the trader tomorrow to ask what he's willing to do with regards to the turbos. Keep you guys updated! Once again thank you all!!
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10-21-2020, 02:59 AM	#16
Russbmw Colonel 680 Rep 2,444 Posts Drives: 2018 630iGT sport Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Caloundra, Australia iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 BMW 640i [0.00] 2014 BMW 530d GT [0.00] 2017 Kawasaki Z1000SX [0.00]	I'm assuming it's an independent car dealer, and not a BMW approved used? I saw someone else asked the question, but skimming through I can't seem to see the answer. I've had experience of both. In short: 1) If it's from a BMW dealer, you'd stand a good chance of having it sorted out. I have done in the past, paintwork and all. Won't go into details as it's too much to write out. 2) If it's from an independent trader, forget it. Bodywork, tough shit. Mechanically, unless something actually fails or falls off, you will be pissing into the wind trying to get them to sort it out. Also bear in mind that if they did, they'd be using the cheapest parts they could get their hands on and it'll be a rush job - similar thoughts to NISFAN's post above really. I bought an e46 many moons ago and it looked mint, then a month later when I was stripping the boot out for an audio install, I noticed the metalwork behind the rear quarter looked like it'd been gone at with a tin opener. Immediately started looking all over - pulled the side valence off the sill and the whole thing was rusted to fuck behind it. It had had a sizeable wallop and the rear quarter replaced - badly, as they'd blocked the drain holes and hence it was rusting from the inside out. Approached the trader about it because they'd said it was all clean, hadn't been in any accidents, etc, and got told to fuck off. Sold as seen. All the same things you will have, or will do. I went through the Consumer Rights outfit, and CAB, everyone offers lots of advice. They'll tell you to put it all in writing to the trader. Then do it again when you et no response, will tell you all the consumer rights you have and what the dealer SHOULD do. BUT...and it's a bloody big but.........when it came to the crunch of having to take further action - which will be because the trader will not be playing ball and wont' respond to your letters or threats of action, you will be left facing the trader on your own - nobody out there will be backing you in terms of your argument or financially; and as I found out, you have to be pretty keen, have a completely water-tight case against the trader, and deep pockets to drag it through courts. I fucked the idea off.....and despite having ploughed about £600 or so into having all the rust cut out, new sections welded in and respraying nearly the whole side of the car so it was perfect, I decided to sell it on. IMO, your options are simply sell the car on, or get a quote to re-do the bodywork (I can't imagine it'd be that bad if it's just a bumper). A repainted bumper does not make the car a deathtrap, so unless you've discovered the bonnet/wing gaps are all wrong and there's evidence of things being bent about in the engine bay, then I wouldn't worry about it too much - could have been something as simple as an asshole in a car park driving into the car and then scarpering, leaving the owner to stump the repair bill. Mechanically, he's offered to fix it - so what's the problem there? There is nothing actually properly wrong or broken by the sounds of it, s o if you're worried about a bill in future, then perhaps investigate an aftermarket warranty after the trader has had a look at it? __________________ Last edited by Russbmw; 10-21-2020 at 03:20 AM..
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10-21-2020, 03:08 AM	#17
OldGit21 New Member 5 Rep 14 Posts Drives: BMW 340i Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Lancashire iTrader: (0)	Have a look at this link, it gives a good idea of what you can reject a car on in the first 30 days: https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/rejecting-a-car/ Best of luck with whichever route you choose.
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10-21-2020, 03:32 AM	#19
Armaan Major 715 Rep 1,158 Posts Drives: F30 320i Sport Remapped Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Birmingham iTrader: (0)	Not going to add a lot of value to what has been said, but from your initial post the main issue is that you've traded in a well looked after, perfectly running car for something that may have had a harder 5 year and 70k life - that may be why you are noticing many of the noises and slight mechanical issues. Give them a chance to rectify, but I doubt anything will be done about a loud turbo - should have been noticed on a test drive? Regarding paintwork - not a hope on this. Personally I'd never sign anything to say I'm satisfied with it if it was raining - God's polish I think they call it. Lesson probably to learn from this is that you could have had an AA inspection on the car beforehand? I think it's around £300 and they even test drive it and inspect the paintwork. Could have saved you a lot of time, but not experienced it myself to say how good they are. Armaan
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10-21-2020, 08:33 AM	#20
Fez_7 Second Lieutenant 67 Rep 223 Posts Drives: BMW F30 Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: West Yorkshire iTrader: (0)	I agree with what's been said above. @NISFAN, that's the point I was trying to make re: the paintwork, OP won't get anywhere as he has signed to say he was happy with it and a respray for a bump does not make the car a death trap. OP would only have some form of recourse if it had actually been in a proper accident and registered as a write-off but then sold as HPI clear when it actually isn't, for example (which doesn't appear to be the case here). I also agree with the point being made about having to make the decision as to whether you are prepared to take the matter to court if you don't get anywhere with the trader. I once bought a car advertised with 2 keys but later realised the 2nd was actually for a different car! It was a BMW fob so I just assumed the battery was dead but when I tried the key blade it didn't fit my car. I emailed the trader who tried to deny advertising the car with 2 keys so I got Autotrader to email me a copy of the advert. I forwarded this to him with a Letter of Claim, basically asking him to supply me with the correct key or pay for a replacement otherwise he would leave me with no option but to issue court proceedings. He ran this past his solicitor and then paid BMW directly for my replacement key order. As it was clear cut I would have taken him to court had he not complied but only because I already have legal experience of dealing with claims. Obviously if the evidence was less clear cut then it's very risky to go to court as you have to pay for the claim yourself with no guarantee of winning or recovering your costs and the court will also want to see evidence that you have exhausted every other avenue to try and resolve the issue first. __________________ BMW F30 320D EfficientDynamics Stage 1 remap, EGR delete, 398 alloys, tinted windows, M Sport front bumper, M Performance grilles, M Performance spoiler, gloss black mirrors, tail light tints, debadged.
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10-21-2020, 08:54 AM	#21
ZedsRedBaby Colonel 1763 Rep 2,273 Posts Drives: M440i Convertible Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	I agree with the key points made by various posters. Just to add - your best chance of getting a decent outcome is to be as polite, patient and reasonable as you possibly can be with the trader. Any talk of rejection, legal action etc will put his back up and he'll be straight into fuck off mode. The fact he says "I've been through this many times" probably tells you all you need to know.
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