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      10-26-2018, 12:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnung View Post
Your issue is definitely the stock struts/shocks and also maybe the bump stops. H&R is German engineering company that has been around about 50 years. They make very high quality products.

I wouldn't suggest wasting time or money switching to ACS springs. I understand that many people write happy things about ACS and that's fine. But when I was researching suspension, more than one person that I trust told me that ACS often sources their products from other name brands and marks them up 2x or 3x. So you might spend a lot of money for ACS and when you could have gotten the exact same thing directly from say, Eibach.

The stock dampers are absolute crap. Mine were replaced recently and the two BMW mechanics working on my car took a close look at them and said that they were junk with only 15,000 miles on them.

Having said that the H&R springs have a 1.5" drop all around which is pretty aggressive on an x-drive with Long Island winter weather. If you are happy with the drop that's fine. You just need to get dampers to match that spring drop so that the pistons inside the damper have the correct travel. Bilstein and Koni are the two brands that I trust. The H&R's are a sport spring so I would suggest looking at the Bilstein and Koni sport springs that are meant for lowered cars. i can't recall the model numbers but I believe its either the Bilstein B6 or B8, and with Koni I think that they are just called Koni Sport shocks. Check their websites and the descriptions should lead you to the correct ones.
Don't be afraid to call not only the BMW tuning companies but the manufacturers. I called Koni a few months ago and got some great technical advice on which dampers would work best with which springs, etc. When you call the tuning houses sometimes you get a knowledgeable person with real experience and other times, not so much. I've consistently gotten great advice (and great prices) from Mike at Extreme Powerhouse (X-PH) in Las Vegas.

Now if you are not happy with the 1.5" drop that you have with the H&R springs then that is another story. I didn't want to drop my x-drive that much so my choices were 1) use the stock springs, 2) Eibach spring kit for x-drive with front 0.8" drop and rear 0.6" drop (remember that the front of the x-drive comes higher from the factory) They are about 10% stiffer than stock springs. and 3) Dinan springs for x-drive with about 0.75" drop all around. They are about 30% stiffer than stock springs.

Remember that a suspension is a system. Dampers and springs are going to control ride height and how the car handles bumps and pot holes. But they won't have as much effect on body roll. You need larger sway bars to control body roll. The labor is more expensive to install sway bars on an F30 BMW so it's not something people always talk about. You'll need to find a local installer who will give you a reasonable labor price on any aftermarket installs.

I thought about lowering my x-drive by going with H&R springs and Koni or Bilstein sport shocks. But mine is a daily driver in NJ with all of the pot holes and road seams and I just didn't want to deal with every bump jarring my teeth.

My solution was Eibach springs, Koni Active dampers and H&R sway bars. Koni Actives use FSD technology that Koni developed with McLaren. It's like an active suspension without being electric. It uses two internal valves that work on different frequencies so it's a sport shock around corners and more of a soft shock when it hits a pothole or road seam. There are no external adjustments or anything like that. It's all set at the Koni factory. The Koni Actives are actually less jarring than the stock dampers. On a long highway trip, it takes on bumps and potholes and rounds off the jarring note much more like a Mercedes suspension does. Yet accelerate into a turn and it's all BMW!

Koni Active dampers and Eibach x-drive springs actually tested their two products to work together and they do it well. The suspension mods on my car work like a system. I couldn't be happier.

Attaching some photos of stock vs aftermarket parts. Hope some of this information is helpful to you. Good luck with your car!
Do you have any before and after pictures with this setup? I was thinking about a very similar setup and I am interested in what the drop looks like. I am in Wisconsin so winter is an issue here as well.
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      10-28-2018, 09:45 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ithk21620 View Post
Do you have any before and after pictures with this setup? I was thinking about a very similar setup and I am interested in what the drop looks like. I am in Wisconsin so winter is an issue here as well.
Below is the best side profile photo that I have after the Eibach springs were installed. It's tough to get the lighting just right especially with a black car with black tires as far as trying to see the drop.

It's a black on black interior car. My goal is to modify it to be a performance daily driver but keep the appearance modifications more subtle and stealth. From this angle you can see that front fender reflectors have been eliminated with paint-matched reflectors. (so have the rear bumper reflectors.) Blue BMW wheel emblems have been swapped with black/white carbon fiber emblems. (So have the BMW emblems on the hood & trunk.) Blue BMW M-Sport Brembo brake calipers have been painted gloss black with G2 Epoxy Caliper paint. BMW logos on the calipers have been replaced with white Brembo logos. Also the plain grey panel under the rear bumper has been replaced with a black diffuser that better compliments the chrome tips of the M Performance exhaust.

I measured the distance between the top of the tire and the fender by placing a straightedge on the very top of the tire directly above the wheel centerline and then measuring between the bottom of the straightedge to the bottom of the fender lip. With my current setup of Eibach springs, BMW 400M 8.0"x18.0" wheels and run-flat 225/45-18 Pirelli Cinturato P7 AS tires the measurements were Front 1.625" and Rear 0.75". Remember that the stock x-drive cars are set at the factory to be slightly higher in the front.

I had some excellent conversations on the Tire/Wheel section of the forum. I learned not to take the tire measurements as fact and instead to use the actual tire measurements taken by TireRack. For instance BMW might use 225/45-18 from Continental or Pirelli as the factory tire but the diameter actually varies between the two manufacturers.

The winter climate, my research and my budget has led me to make two decisions. First, is to keep my 18 inch wheels (which I really like the looks of anyway). Many people on the forum in winter climates have reported that they commonly have tire damage when they hit potholes with 19 inch wheels. My 18 inch wheels are the sweet spot, even for winter wheels or a spare, since that's the smallest size that I can use with my M Sport brakes to have clearance.
Second, is that I am going to stick with all season run flat tires. I'd love to have sticky summer tires and a spare set of winter wheels/tires. But it's a daily driver that I take on trips so I don't want to carry a giant 18"spare that takes up the entire trunk. And I don't have the money or space for a second set for the winter.

When my current stock Pirellis wear out I'm going to switch to Bridgestone DriveGuard runflat tires. I've gotten many recommendations that the DriveGuards are a newer design upgrade from the Continental/Pirelli stock tires. The DriveGuards are supposed to have the biggest advantage in poor weather and snow which is where I need it the most.

I got some recommendations to change to a wider tire using the same wheels or even finding two used BMW 400M wheels in the wider 8.5"x18.0" size for just the rear. The Bridgestone DriveGuards come in several sizes that would work. There are some pros and cons which is why it is important to check the actual tire diameter on the TireRack website. I actually put a one page matrix (below) together to collect all of the data that I had in order to make my tire size decision when the Pirellis wear out. As you can see the choice of which size DriveGuard can also vary the tire diameter which will effect the distance between the tire and fender, or "drop". All variables to keep in mind.

The look of the drop itself isn't as high a priority for me as is the winter driving ability and handling. This past winter gave me a real world test. We had a flash snow storm that gave us six inches of snow within 1-2 hours which was much quicker than snow plows could anticipate. I got a chance to play around in fresh snow and small drifts. With the stock ride height my 2015 335i x-Drive could handle about 6 inches of snow in the parking lot before being stuck in a slightly higher drift. Then I would just back out to free the car. I lowered it slightly with the Eibach's after that. I may get a little bit of that clearance back depending on which size tire that I upgrade to eventually. But that really helped me to make a decision to not drop it any more with say, the H&R springs that drop about 1.5 inches all around.

Suspension is always a combination of parts working together. I've been very happy with the combination of Eibach springs, Koni Active Red shocks and the H&R sway bars. Gives me that truly flat handling when I really want to push it through a turn, yet doesn't have that (stock suspension) blunt jolt to the teeth when I hit a pothole or a road seam. Those former jolts are now rounded off. Much more pleasant on a long drive or a weekend trip. With a previous German car I did an upgrade to wider rubber on stock wheels and was very pleased with the handling result. I'm sure that my eventual upgrade to the WIDER Bridgestone DriveGuards will really complete the suspension mods on my 2015 BMW 335i x-Drive.
Hope this information is helpful. Please post how your mods work out. Have fun!
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      10-29-2018, 09:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnung View Post
Your issue is definitely the stock struts/shocks and also maybe the bump stops. H&R is German engineering company that has been around about 50 years. They make very high quality products.

I wouldn't suggest wasting time or money switching to ACS springs. I understand that many people write happy things about ACS and that's fine. But when I was researching suspension, more than one person that I trust told me that ACS often sources their products from other name brands and marks them up 2x or 3x. So you might spend a lot of money for ACS and when you could have gotten the exact same thing directly from say, Eibach.

The stock dampers are absolute crap. Mine were replaced recently and the two BMW mechanics working on my car took a close look at them and said that they were junk with only 15,000 miles on them.

Having said that the H&R springs have a 1.5" drop all around which is pretty aggressive on an x-drive with Long Island winter weather. If you are happy with the drop that's fine. You just need to get dampers to match that spring drop so that the pistons inside the damper have the correct travel. Bilstein and Koni are the two brands that I trust. The H&R's are a sport spring so I would suggest looking at the Bilstein and Koni sport springs that are meant for lowered cars. i can't recall the model numbers but I believe its either the Bilstein B6 or B8, and with Koni I think that they are just called Koni Sport shocks. Check their websites and the descriptions should lead you to the correct ones.
Don't be afraid to call not only the BMW tuning companies but the manufacturers. I called Koni a few months ago and got some great technical advice on which dampers would work best with which springs, etc. When you call the tuning houses sometimes you get a knowledgeable person with real experience and other times, not so much. I've consistently gotten great advice (and great prices) from Mike at Extreme Powerhouse (X-PH) in Las Vegas.

Now if you are not happy with the 1.5" drop that you have with the H&R springs then that is another story. I didn't want to drop my x-drive that much so my choices were 1) use the stock springs, 2) Eibach spring kit for x-drive with front 0.8" drop and rear 0.6" drop (remember that the front of the x-drive comes higher from the factory) They are about 10% stiffer than stock springs. and 3) Dinan springs for x-drive with about 0.75" drop all around. They are about 30% stiffer than stock springs.

Remember that a suspension is a system. Dampers and springs are going to control ride height and how the car handles bumps and pot holes. But they won't have as much effect on body roll. You need larger sway bars to control body roll. The labor is more expensive to install sway bars on an F30 BMW so it's not something people always talk about. You'll need to find a local installer who will give you a reasonable labor price on any aftermarket installs.

I thought about lowering my x-drive by going with H&R springs and Koni or Bilstein sport shocks. But mine is a daily driver in NJ with all of the pot holes and road seams and I just didn't want to deal with every bump jarring my teeth.

My solution was Eibach springs, Koni Active dampers and H&R sway bars. Koni Actives use FSD technology that Koni developed with McLaren. It's like an active suspension without being electric. It uses two internal valves that work on different frequencies so it's a sport shock around corners and more of a soft shock when it hits a pothole or road seam. There are no external adjustments or anything like that. It's all set at the Koni factory. The Koni Actives are actually less jarring than the stock dampers. On a long highway trip, it takes on bumps and potholes and rounds off the jarring note much more like a Mercedes suspension does. Yet accelerate into a turn and it's all BMW!

Koni Active dampers and Eibach x-drive springs actually tested their two products to work together and they do it well. The suspension mods on my car work like a system. I couldn't be happier.

Attaching some photos of stock vs aftermarket parts. Hope some of this information is helpful to you. Good luck with your car!
Wow thanks for taking the time to write this up. Has given me so many good launching points to dive in to. Any chance you have a before and after image of the vehicle? (Nvm lol)
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      10-29-2018, 09:57 PM   #26
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I paired the H&R Sports with Bilstein B8's (I must have got the last full set before they disappeared) and it honestly rides like the OEM M-sport suspension setup. I'm sure it is because I paired the springs with struts/shocks that were made for shorter springs and spring rate. In my previous cars, I only switched out the springs and those were pretty harsh compared to the OEM ride.
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      11-01-2018, 11:25 AM   #27
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Hello BMW Experts!
I just put in Dinan springs, replacing BMW M-tech (M-Sport?) springs, working with Billy B8s & the largest sway bars BMW make for this chassis (340/440 bars?).
When I put in "M" springs to replace the bog-stock springs, I saw very little drop, maybe 1/4", with BMW saying I should have been 1/2" lower. When I replaced the "M" springs with the Dinans, I should have gotten ~ 1/4" more drop, but it looks like more to me, maybe 1/2" But I didn't measure!
Driving is more where I'm at. The "M" springs were pretty nice most of the time, but I thought the rears too soft. The Dinan springs I'm really liking now. The rear is under control, and shock/spring match is much better, getting rid of the bobbing I found before. I am looking for the comfort hit which I expect to come on some bumps or roads, but generally the ride is as good or better than with the M-tech springs.

Murf

Last edited by Littlebear; 10-30-2021 at 06:03 AM..
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      11-16-2018, 06:17 PM   #28
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The H&R Sport is absolutely unacceptable on this platform. I swapped them out for Bilstein B14. Ride is excellent. Firm but never harsh.
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      11-21-2018, 11:22 AM   #29
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Hi guys!

Im trying to buy me some H&R springs now BUT....
I ordered from BMW the sticker that's fitted inside the door where you can see all the weights of the car and its says...

Permissible Total Weight: 2005
Permissible Front Axle Weight: 1215
Permissible Rear Axle Weight: 980

Front Axle Weight 1215 kg!!

And I have been in contact with H&R in Germany and they say that they have no spring to sell to me as me car has a front axle weight of 1215 kg and the springs they have are from 921 kg to 990 maximum. They have never ever tried fitting the springs on a F30 with 1215 front axle weight.

Is there anyone here with the same front axle weight as me? How did you do?
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      11-21-2018, 12:40 PM   #30
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I don't think you are interpreting the door label correctly. "Permissible" means "maximum". So it's not saying that there is that much weight on your axle right now. It is a "not to exceed" number. The springs will be fine. Hope this helps.
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      03-21-2019, 02:29 AM   #31
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Hi!

I'm looking to update the suspension in my f10 which has done 125k miles, I'm looking at the koni active dampers paired with stock springs or eibach stock springs - my goal is comfort on motorway/highway driving

In addition I'll be doing top mounts/bump stops etc (lemforder/Sachs)

Does this sound like a good plan?
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      03-21-2019, 07:29 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apples12 View Post
Hi!

I'm looking to update the suspension in my f10 which has done 125k miles, I'm looking at the koni active dampers paired with stock springs or eibach stock springs - my goal is comfort on motorway/highway driving

In addition I'll be doing top mounts/bump stops etc (lemforder/Sachs)

Does this sound like a good plan?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apples12 View Post
Hi!

I'm looking to update the suspension in my f10 which has done 125k miles, I'm looking at the koni active dampers paired with stock springs or eibach stock springs - my goal is comfort on motorway/highway driving

In addition I'll be doing top mounts/bump stops etc (lemforder/Sachs)

Does this sound like a good plan?
Not sure which 5-Series you have. My experience has been excellent with the Koni Special Active dampers for the past 9 months on my F30 335i x-Drive. The car had only 11k miles when I got it.

I didn't like that during highway driving when I hit a pothole or a road seam it was a little jarring. Really noticeable on a trip when a patch of road is one seam after another. The Koni Special Active dampers did exactly as I had hoped. Best way to describe it is that they rounded off that jolt or jar. I'm not saying that it will ride that a Lexus. The road feel of a German car is still there but it feels more like a Mercedes E350 suspension when it hits those seams in the road. Took a 3,000 mile road trip right after the dampers were installed and couldn't have been happier. At the same time the dual valving of the Konis turned them into sport shocks whenever I wanted to hit the gas and nail a turn.

I don't know what Spring options are out there for the F10 chassis. I love the Eibachs for my F30 x-Drive. They are 10% stiffer than stock so feels more in control and drop is moderate at 0.8" front and 0.6" rear. (x-Drive has a bigger gap at front from factory.)

I'd suggest calling Mike at Extreme Power House (X-PH) for advice on the springs. He's given me consistent advice and has best prices especially if your buying a combination of things like shocks and springs together.
For OEM parts like bumpstops, gaskets, fasteners needed to complete an install I've had good luck with Jason at GetBMWparts.com. It's a BMW dealership that sells OEM at a discount.
Hope some of this helps!
John
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      03-26-2019, 08:28 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnung View Post
I don't know what Spring options are out there for the F10 chassis. I love the Eibachs for my F30 x-Drive. They are 10% stiffer than stock so feels more in control and drop is moderate at 0.8" front and 0.6" rear. (x-Drive has a bigger gap at front from factory.)
John
Hey, I've seen your other comments about your eibach springs. I was under the impression Koni doesn't want you to use lowering springs on an x-drive. They don't have a part number on their site for m-sport and x-drive together, which is actually the setup I was thinking about for my base wagon. M-Sport is rwd only. Did you get the rwd part number?

I would think the Koni's and the stock sport springs would go pretty well together for a very mild drop.
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      03-26-2019, 09:48 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.0hyeah View Post
Hey, I've seen your other comments about your eibach springs. I was under the impression Koni doesn't want you to use lowering springs on an x-drive. They don't have a part number on their site for m-sport and x-drive together, which is actually the setup I was thinking about for my base wagon. M-Sport is rwd only. Did you get the rwd part number?

I would think the Koni's and the stock sport springs would go pretty well together for a very mild drop.
I spoke directly to Koni tech support about my x-Drive 335i. The Koni Special Active dampers that I used are designed for the x-Drive. Koni said that lowering my car with mild lowering springs such as Eibach (Drops F0.8", R0.6") (which Koni actually tested with their Special Actives) or Dinan (drops 0.75") would be just fine.

Koni told me that a big drop spring like H&R (1.5") shouldn't be used with the x-Drive Special Active dampers because there wouldn't be enough piston travel within the shock itself.

I'm sorry but I don't really understand the rest of your question. I didn't research RWD shock options because I have an x-drive. I'd suggest that you call Koni tech support and see what they recommend for your application.
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      03-26-2019, 10:27 PM   #35
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Ok cool thank you, you answered my question just fine!

The way the options are presented on their site it didn't seem as though they offer a shock for lowering springs for x-drive cars. But you're saying the x-drive spec koni's can handle a slight drop.
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      08-09-2019, 07:00 PM   #36
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Suspension upgrade on 2016 F25 N20 …..non -adaptive...

https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showt...0#post25124540
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      11-23-2019, 09:51 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bheng89 View Post
KW or Bilstein are probably a good bet. very reputable companies.
I’ve just ordered 20s for bmw f30 which springs does everyone think are the ones to go for
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      11-23-2019, 09:52 AM   #38
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Can anyone tell me know which springs to use on 20s
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      06-30-2020, 07:49 AM   #39
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While the Konis paired with the Eibach Pro Kit springs is a really great setup, the suspension still occasionally bottoms out over large bumps or dips in the road for me. It affects the driving experience because I'm always bracing for impact when I see a dip in the road. I have an xdrive. Has anyone ever heard of someone pairing the Koni SA with OEM rwd springs on an xdrive F30? I'm hoping the extra spring travel would stop the bottoming out. All I'm looking for is a soft compliant ride without the xdrive wheel gap.
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