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      02-24-2018, 12:22 AM   #177
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Dynojet Mustang 2 diff dynos 2 diff cars Both N55s

Top dyno graph dyno jet BM3
2014 335i XDrive EWG
BM3 stage 2 OTS 93 octane tune
BMS Intake
ER CP
Wagner Evo2 Competition IC
ER catless DP
AWE catback
Stock turbo


Active dyno cars:

F30 335 Stock (With Downpipe) vs Active Autowerke OBD Flash Stage 2 +65whp / +109wtq
(notice how important a quality FMIC is to this car. it loses a lot of power after 5500 RPM)




Top dyno power curve and numbers very similar to bottom graph Mike posted and this car has more mods and is on a dynojet. Still do not know what gear,psi or temperature of environment. Ill assume the car in Mike's graph was dynoed in South Florida. Active on mustang dyno
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Last edited by ceedawg; 02-24-2018 at 07:36 AM..
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      02-24-2018, 12:33 AM   #178
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Nice!

How does the logs look like? What does the MAP sensor and timing read?

Edit: Ohhh...not your car?
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      02-24-2018, 09:41 AM   #179
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Seems like the aa is going to be a moreful tune (mustang dyno)

Edit. Actuslly one is xdrive. So it's hard to know
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceedawg View Post
Dynojet Mustang 2 diff dynos 2 diff cars Both N55s

Top dyno graph dyno jet BM3
2014 335i XDrive EWG
BM3 stage 2 OTS 93 octane tune
BMS Intake
ER CP
Wagner Evo2 Competition IC
ER catless DP
AWE catback
Stock turbo


Active dyno cars:

F30 335 Stock (With Downpipe) vs Active Autowerke OBD Flash Stage 2 +65whp / +109wtq
(notice how important a quality FMIC is to this car. it loses a lot of power after 5500 RPM)




Top dyno power curve and numbers very similar to bottom graph Mike posted and this car has more mods and is on a dynojet. Still do not know what gear,psi or temperature of environment. Ill assume the car in Mike's graph was dynoed in South Florida. Active on mustang dyno
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      02-24-2018, 11:32 AM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matty088 View Post
Seems like the aa is going to be a moreful tune (mustang dyno)

Edit. Actuslly one is xdrive. So it's hard to know
Im mostly just looking at the power curves.
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      02-24-2018, 12:35 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceedawg View Post
Im mostly just looking at the power curves.
I know
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      02-27-2018, 10:29 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Everything I've read says the drop in power in beyond ~5500rpms with a stock turbo N55 with a tune is merely the result of the turbo exceeding it's efficiency and blowing has hard as it can.

BMW goes to great lengths to artificially deliver a naturally aspirated powerband. With the standard issue N55, power drops after about 5800rpms (a bit less with PWG cars). With the MPPK and M2 N55s power drops after around 6200rpms. When you tune these cars, you wreck that OEM power delivery and greatly increase low and midrange power. When you do this, you reveal the efficiency range of the N55 turbo which peaks at around 5500-5700rpms just like we're seeing with this AA dyno.

I don't disagree that heat soak can affect stock intercooler BMWs and there are plenty of dynos out there showing this, but IMO, this is not what we're seeing with these dynos. From what I'm seeing, this is tune that is pushing the turbo to it's maximum, if not slightly beyond. Perhaps a lack of fuel as well.

We'll have to see what others see with their own independent dynos. This is a Mustang dyno afterall. It's a great way to really develop a solid tune. It's a great tool to influence your results if you so choose. I'm not in anyway saying AA is doing this, but you can easily manipulate data with a Mustang to show gains that aren't there or underscore the base dyno, etc. A Dynojet? Not really. There's some BSing you can do, but it's really easy to see.
First, lets keep in mind these cars are on a dyno.. The efficiency of dyno fans cannot be compared to a real world 100+ mph 4th gear run. While we do have a really nice fan setup its no where near the flow you would get on the street in this scenario.


I do agree the turbo is running out of efficiency at these power levels given the 93 octane and stock turbo. However in this situation the high boost and lack of oversized intercooler really hurt on this run. We saw temps of 188f deg at the manifold with a ambient temp of 76F deg. These are some of of the highest I have seen on the dyno. So will a intercooler keep making power? Most likely not but it will reduce the the power being lost up top and give you a smoother curve overall.

Unfortunately we were not able to get the car back on the dyno after we installed our Step core intercooler on this car but, we have logged our M2 before and after with a 40 deg drop in temp compared to the stock intercooler. Install takes roughly 30 min which makes it a no brainer.

Last edited by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke; 02-28-2018 at 12:01 PM..
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      02-27-2018, 11:59 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
First, lets keep in mind these these cars on on a dyno.. The efficiency of dyno fans cannot be compared to a real world 100+ mph 4th gear run.

in this situation the the high boost and lack of oversized intercooler really hurt on this run. We saw temps of 188f deg at the manifold with a ambient temp of 76F deg. These are some of of the highest I have seen on the dyno. So will a intercooler keep making power? Most likely not but it will reduce the the power being lost up top and give you a smoother curve overall.

Unfortunately we were not able to get the car back on the dyno after we installed our Step core intercooler on this car but, we have logged our M2 before and after with a 40 deg drop in temp compared to the stock intercooler. Install takes roughly 30 min which makes it a no brainer.
There is no doubt that by adding a big or more efficient fmic at the same high boost level the car is going to make more power due the the cooler charge,it has to. A 40 degree drop on the M2 should say it all right there especially if applied to the particular car you guys dynoed.
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      02-28-2018, 01:19 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceedawg View Post
Dynojet Mustang 2 diff dynos 2 diff cars Both N55s

Top dyno graph dyno jet BM3
2014 335i XDrive EWG
BM3 stage 2 OTS 93 octane tune
BMS Intake
ER CP
Wagner Evo2 Competition IC
ER catless DP
AWE catback
Stock turbo


Active dyno cars:

F30 335 Stock (With Downpipe) vs Active Autowerke OBD Flash Stage 2 +65whp / +109wtq
(notice how important a quality FMIC is to this car. it loses a lot of power after 5500 RPM)




Top dyno power curve and numbers very similar to bottom graph Mike posted and this car has more mods and is on a dynojet. Still do not know what gear,psi or temperature of environment. Ill assume the car in Mike's graph was dynoed in South Florida. Active on mustang dyno
The top Dyno is my car and it is XDrive. Pull was done in 4th gear. The map dyno’d was also an older OTS map. Updates have been released since that dyno and have yet to to uploaded and tested. Snow sucks.
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      02-28-2018, 08:54 AM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Everything I've read says the drop in power in beyond ~5500rpms with a stock turbo N55 with a tune is merely the result of the turbo exceeding it's efficiency and blowing has hard as it can.

BMW goes to great lengths to artificially deliver a naturally aspirated powerband. With the standard issue N55, power drops after about 5800rpms (a bit less with PWG cars). With the MPPK and M2 N55s power drops after around 6200rpms. When you tune these cars, you wreck that OEM power delivery and greatly increase low and midrange power. When you do this, you reveal the efficiency range of the N55 turbo which peaks at around 5500-5700rpms just like we're seeing with this AA dyno.

I don't disagree that heat soak can affect stock intercooler BMWs and there are plenty of dynos out there showing this, but IMO, this is not what we're seeing with these dynos. From what I'm seeing, this is tune that is pushing the turbo to it's maximum, if not slightly beyond. Perhaps a lack of fuel as well.

We'll have to see what others see with their own independent dynos. This is a Mustang dyno afterall. It's a great way to really develop a solid tune. It's a great tool to influence your results if you so choose. I'm not in anyway saying AA is doing this, but you can easily manipulate data with a Mustang to show gains that aren't there or underscore the base dyno, etc. A Dynojet? Not really. There's some BSing you can do, but it's really easy to see.
I have fuel logs that will show an appropriate AFR throughout the pull, but realistically there is no excuse to release a tune with incorrect AFR seeing as these cars use widebands to target a ratio anyways.

I agree with you on the dyno comments, it is 100% possible to skew numbers with a Mustang, but that's something we simply don't do. If I wanted to mess with the readings, I would have done a 3rd or 4th gear pull to get lower IATs and more ignition timing (which would keep the power from falling as much up top) and then adjusted the weather parameters in the software to get the peak number I wanted in order to have a very pretty dyno to post. We dyno all of the cars here in higher gears with added load to try and match actual driving conditions. The same car with our flash on a Dynojet will never produce lower numbers than on our Mustang. Hopefully we'll see some independent results posted here soon.

We're engineers before we're programmers, so we have more R&D invested on the dyno modifying the core of the actual tune as opposed to the protocols and tools used to implement it. The tune you receive from us is guaranteed not to be the same as any other tuner. We aren't selling the same OTS maps that many companies are purchasing and selling as their own.
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      02-28-2018, 12:58 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David@ActiveAutowerke View Post

We're engineers before we're programmers, so we have more R&D invested on the dyno modifying the core of the actual tune as opposed to the protocols and tools used to implement it. The tune you receive from us is guaranteed not to be the same as any other tuner. We aren't selling the same OTS maps that many companies are purchasing and selling as their own.
Even though I already knew Karly has good people,this statement confirms and says it all for me. AA FTW

I can't wait to load the SW stay tuned
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      02-28-2018, 01:20 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David@ActiveAutowerke View Post
I have fuel logs that will show an appropriate AFR throughout the pull, but realistically there is no excuse to release a tune with incorrect AFR seeing as these cars use widebands to target a ratio anyways.

I agree with you on the dyno comments, it is 100% possible to skew numbers with a Mustang, but that's something we simply don't do. If I wanted to mess with the readings, I would have done a 3rd or 4th gear pull to get lower IATs and more ignition timing (which would keep the power from falling as much up top) and then adjusted the weather parameters in the software to get the peak number I wanted in order to have a very pretty dyno to post. We dyno all of the cars here in higher gears with added load to try and match actual driving conditions. The same car with our flash on a Dynojet will never produce lower numbers than on our Mustang. Hopefully we'll see some independent results posted here soon.

We're engineers before we're programmers, so we have more R&D invested on the dyno modifying the core of the actual tune as opposed to the protocols and tools used to implement it. The tune you receive from us is guaranteed not to be the same as any other tuner. We aren't selling the same OTS maps that many companies are purchasing and selling as their own.
I can certainly appreciate that! With that said, I recently did an OBD Flash with you guys and I'm definitely enjoying the newfound power. How much continued research and updates do you do to already-existing maps? Do I need to stay up-to-date with any added features or the like?

Also, one potential "leg-up" BM3 and MHD seem to have is built-in logging capabilities. Any plans of implementing that with the Simon3? I think that the offer of 4 custom maps included in your package is great, and part of the reason I went with AA, but without direct logging capabilities, it makes it kind of moot unless I can get onto a dyno to do some logged runs (added cost). Idk, these are just my thoughts as someone new to the tuning realm. Am I wrong?

Last quick question relating to flash tunes. I'm currently on a 91oct map, I know I can request an E30 map if I want to run an E85 mix, but the question is, when would I flash the new map? Before or after filling a few gallons of E85? I don't think it'd be realistic to flash the map at the gas station, so either I'd be running the E30 map on 91oct gas on my way to the station, or I'd be running an E30 mix on the 91oct map on my way home from the station. Nearest Propel station is around 20 miles away from where I live.
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      02-28-2018, 01:44 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David@ActiveAutowerke View Post
I have fuel logs that will show an appropriate AFR throughout the pull, but realistically there is no excuse to release a tune with incorrect AFR seeing as these cars use widebands to target a ratio anyways.

I agree with you on the dyno comments, it is 100% possible to skew numbers with a Mustang, but that's something we simply don't do. If I wanted to mess with the readings, I would have done a 3rd or 4th gear pull to get lower IATs and more ignition timing (which would keep the power from falling as much up top) and then adjusted the weather parameters in the software to get the peak number I wanted in order to have a very pretty dyno to post. We dyno all of the cars here in higher gears with added load to try and match actual driving conditions. The same car with our flash on a Dynojet will never produce lower numbers than on our Mustang. Hopefully we'll see some independent results posted here soon.

We're engineers before we're programmers, so we have more R&D invested on the dyno modifying the core of the actual tune as opposed to the protocols and tools used to implement it. The tune you receive from us is guaranteed not to be the same as any other tuner. We aren't selling the same OTS maps that many companies are purchasing and selling as their own.
Solid response. Thank you.
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      02-28-2018, 03:49 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jh_f30 View Post
I can certainly appreciate that! With that said, I recently did an OBD Flash with you guys and I'm definitely enjoying the newfound power. How much continued research and updates do you do to already-existing maps? Do I need to stay up-to-date with any added features or the like?

Also, one potential "leg-up" BM3 and MHD seem to have is built-in logging capabilities. Any plans of implementing that with the Simon3? I think that the offer of 4 custom maps included in your package is great, and part of the reason I went with AA, but without direct logging capabilities, it makes it kind of moot unless I can get onto a dyno to do some logged runs (added cost). Idk, these are just my thoughts as someone new to the tuning realm. Am I wrong?

Last quick question relating to flash tunes. I'm currently on a 91oct map, I know I can request an E30 map if I want to run an E85 mix, but the question is, when would I flash the new map? Before or after filling a few gallons of E85? I don't think it'd be realistic to flash the map at the gas station, so either I'd be running the E30 map on 91oct gas on my way to the station, or I'd be running an E30 mix on the 91oct map on my way home from the station. Nearest Propel station is around 20 miles away from where I live.
Thanks for the input! We're always developing and I'm sure we will have updates as time goes on. If we do update one of the maps you have there's no charge to get the updated file. If you intend on running an e30 map, you could flash the car prior to heading to the station, just don't run it at WOT or you may encounter a CEL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Solid response. Thank you.
You're welcome! We love to provide as much insight as to what's going on over here when we can!
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      03-01-2018, 08:38 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David@ActiveAutowerke View Post
Thanks for the input! We're always developing and I'm sure we will have updates as time goes on. If we do update one of the maps you have there's no charge to get the updated file.
That's good news. One question though, how are we to know when there are map updates available?
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      03-06-2018, 07:40 PM   #191
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As part of the suggestions from AA as my turbo approaches 20psi, is the recommendation to swap out the TMAP 3.0bar stock sensor for a 3.5 or higher.

I wanted to share the recommendations and the DIY, though for this crowd, the DIY really isn't needed.. crazy simple.

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      03-06-2018, 08:15 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raichean View Post

I wanted to share the recommendations and the DIY, though for this crowd, the DIY really isn't needed.. crazy simple.
Super! Thanks again!
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      03-07-2018, 04:15 AM   #193
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afaik N55 both MAP and TMAP are 255kpa, which is 2.55bar absolute. correct me if I'm wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raichean View Post
As part of the suggestions from AA as my turbo approaches 20psi, is the recommendation to swap out the TMAP 3.0bar stock sensor for a 3.5 or higher.

I wanted to share the recommendations and the DIY, though for this crowd, the DIY really isn't needed.. crazy simple.

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      03-07-2018, 05:10 AM   #194
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Quote:
As part of the suggestions from AA as my turbo approaches 20psi, is the recommendation to swap out the TMAP 3.0bar stock sensor for a 3.5 or higher.

I wanted to share the recommendations and the DIY, though for this crowd, the DIY really isn't needed.. crazy simple.
Maybe I missed it somewhere, but what is the part number for the 3.5 sensor on a F32 435 N55?
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      03-07-2018, 11:24 AM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
afaik N55 both MAP and TMAP are 255kpa, which is 2.55bar absolute. correct me if I'm wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raichean View Post
As part of the suggestions from AA as my turbo approaches 20psi, is the recommendation to swap out the TMAP 3.0bar stock sensor for a 3.5 or higher.

I wanted to share the recommendations and the DIY, though for this crowd, the DIY really isn't needed.. crazy simple.

I was told it was a 3.. I absolutely could be wrong. Actually would LOVE to know if I am wrong and will correct my info in the video. 8)
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      03-07-2018, 11:26 AM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6 View Post
Maybe I missed it somewhere, but what is the part number for the 3.5 sensor on a F32 435 N55?
The part number is 13627843531.
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      03-07-2018, 11:49 AM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raichean View Post
The part number is 13627843531.
Thanx

That P/N is listed as MAP for N20 & N54 - is that correct?
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      03-07-2018, 12:07 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6 View Post
Thanx

That P/N is listed as MAP for N20 & N54 - is that correct?
that is correct.. there isn't a 3.5 or 4 bar TMAP for the N55, but you can use the sensors from other motors. Part number was confirmed by AA, plus ECS Tuning (where I got it) lists it as the upgrade for the N55 with higher turbos.
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'Furiosa' F32 Build Thread
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