[BMW335iOn18s]

LOL @ Mike_L, what a sad excuse for a car enthusiast/human being. At 35 years old, he already belongs in a retirement home. Wow man, I'm sorry to hear that you hated your piece of crap 1980's mustang, but just so you know, a BMW M3 whether an E36 or an F80 is NOTHING like that depressing heap of trash....enjoy your 7 series man, but just so you know, your 7 series is EVERYTHING that's wrong with BMW today.

The BMW we came to love died over the course of the last 15 years, first, by introducing soft-suspensioned Xi's (sorry to all you Xi lovers, but try a RWD bmw, due to it's much lower/stiffer suspension, they drive NOTHING like your cars), then by phasing out a lot of manuals, then by making cars WAY too big/heavy, and now by not even bothering to make bespoke engines for the M models.

To the OP, GET A 320i RWD with the STICK! Yes, the ZF8 is awesome, but someone our age should experience one of the LAST REAL BMW's that will be available new in the near future! The 320i is an awesome car and drive NOTHING like a depressing FWD econobox. I owned a 2012 GTI and if the Ford Focus/Fiesta STs are anything like them, DON'T BOTHER. They have tons of rev hang, and all you're driving is an econobox with a big engine, you'll feel be able to feel it in many ways: the stupid wheelspin/wheel hop, rev hang, understeer, so-so build quality....A 320i is still a BMW, a slower one, but the chassis/handling/driver car connection are all PRESENT! The camry is not even in the same league as the 320i IF WE'RE CAR ENTHUSIASTS and talking about DRIVERS CARS. The only car I can say is more fun than a 320i for less money is a Subaru BRZ! That car is telepathic and you may want to consider it, it is 10000000x times better than any FWD hot hatch. It's basically a brand new BMW E30 M3. The steering, clutch, shifter, handling, throttle, are PERFECT in that car.

If you're looking to buy a BMW for luxury/technology, buy a lexus or benz...you're looking at the wrong brand.

BMW was, and in many of our eyes, should always be about the car/driver connection and the happiness that comes from it!

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

LOL @ Mike_L, what a sad excuse for a car enthusiast/human being. At 35 years old, he already belongs in a retirement home. Wow man, I'm sorry to hear that you hated your piece of crap 1980's mustang, but just so you know, a BMW M3 whether an E36 or an F80 is NOTHING like that depressing heap of trash....enjoy your 7 series man, but just so you know, your 7 series is EVERYTHING that's wrong with BMW today.

The BMW we came to love died over the course of the last 15 years, first, by introducing soft-suspensioned Xi's (sorry to all you Xi lovers, but try a RWD bmw, due to it's much lower/stiffer suspension, they drive NOTHING like your cars), then by phasing out a lot of manuals, then by making cars WAY too big/heavy, and now by not even bothering to make bespoke engines for the M models.

To the OP, GET A 320i RWD with the STICK! Yes, the ZF8 is awesome, but someone our age should experience one of the LAST REAL BMW's that will be available new in the near future! The 320i is an awesome car and drive NOTHING like a depressing FWD econobox. I owned a 2012 GTI and if the Ford Focus/Fiesta STs are anything like them, DON'T BOTHER. They have tons of rev hang, and all you're driving is an econobox with a big engine, you'll feel be able to feel it in many ways: the stupid wheelspin/wheel hop, rev hang, understeer, so-so build quality....A 320i is still a BMW, a slower one, but the chassis/handling/driver car connection are all PRESENT! The camry is not even in the same league as the 320i IF WE'RE CAR ENTHUSIASTS and talking about DRIVERS CARS. The only car I can say is more fun than a 320i for less money is a Subaru BRZ! That car is telepathic and you may want to consider it, it is 10000000x times better than any FWD hot hatch. It's basically a brand new BMW E30 M3. The steering, clutch, shifter, handling, throttle, are PERFECT in that car.

If you're looking to buy a BMW for luxury/technology, buy a lexus or benz...you're looking at the wrong brand.

BMW was, and in many of our eyes, should always be about the car/driver connection and the happiness that comes from it!

Love your old school rant there!

Even though I like the GTI, in the end, you're right all the way around.

BMW isn't about fast anyway, it's about precision. The 320i and to more an extent, the 228i are very sharp in Sport or M Sport trim.

If you're young and can afford the Bimmer, please do get the manual. Get it and maybe 2 doors before life catches up to you, (wife, kids, responsibility, whatever). Good thing is, if you show you're full commitment to being a driving enthusiast, you can keep things that way.

[sjpaul]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

To the OP, GET A 320i RWD with the STICK! Yes, the ZF8 is awesome, but someone our age should experience one of the LAST REAL BMW's that will be available new in the near future! The 320i is an awesome car and drive NOTHING like a depressing FWD econobox. I owned a 2012 GTI and if the Ford Focus/Fiesta STs are anything like them, DON'T BOTHER. They have tons of rev hang, and all you're driving is an econobox with a big engine, you'll feel be able to feel it in many ways: the stupid wheelspin/wheel hop, rev hang, understeer, so-so build quality....A 320i is still a BMW, a slower one, but the chassis/handling/driver car connection are all PRESENT! The camry is not even in the same league as the 320i IF WE'RE CAR ENTHUSIASTS and talking about DRIVERS CARS. The only car I can say is more fun than a 320i for less money is a Subaru BRZ! That car is telepathic and you may want to consider it, it is 10000000x times better than any FWD hot hatch. It's basically a brand new BMW E30 M3. The steering, clutch, shifter, handling, throttle, are PERFECT in that car.

+1, especially on this paragraph. Right on the money.

[613Bimmer]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

LOL @ Mike_L, what a sad excuse for a car enthusiast/human being. At 35 years old, he already belongs in a retirement home. Wow man, I'm sorry to hear that you hated your piece of crap 1980's mustang, but just so you know, a BMW M3 whether an E36 or an F80 is NOTHING like that depressing heap of trash....enjoy your 7 series man, but just so you know, your 7 series is EVERYTHING that's wrong with BMW today.

The BMW we came to love died over the course of the last 15 years, first, by introducing soft-suspensioned Xi's (sorry to all you Xi lovers, but try a RWD bmw, due to it's much lower/stiffer suspension, they drive NOTHING like your cars), then by phasing out a lot of manuals, then by making cars WAY too big/heavy, and now by not even bothering to make bespoke engines for the M models.

To the OP, GET A 320i RWD with the STICK! Yes, the ZF8 is awesome, but someone our age should experience one of the LAST REAL BMW's that will be available new in the near future! The 320i is an awesome car and drive NOTHING like a depressing FWD econobox. I owned a 2012 GTI and if the Ford Focus/Fiesta STs are anything like them, DON'T BOTHER. They have tons of rev hang, and all you're driving is an econobox with a big engine, you'll feel be able to feel it in many ways: the stupid wheelspin/wheel hop, rev hang, understeer, so-so build quality....A 320i is still a BMW, a slower one, but the chassis/handling/driver car connection are all PRESENT! The camry is not even in the same league as the 320i IF WE'RE CAR ENTHUSIASTS and talking about DRIVERS CARS. The only car I can say is more fun than a 320i for less money is a Subaru BRZ! That car is telepathic and you may want to consider it, it is 10000000x times better than any FWD hot hatch. It's basically a brand new BMW E30 M3. The steering, clutch, shifter, handling, throttle, are PERFECT in that car.

If you're looking to buy a BMW for luxury/technology, buy a lexus or benz...you're looking at the wrong brand.

BMW was, and in many of our eyes, should always be about the car/driver connection and the happiness that comes from it!

Very well said!

As for the xDrive comment, I have to agree with you but, some of us live in a climate where awd is necessary so having an xDrive car is a must. However, I do agree with you about the soft handling of xDrive cars. Mine is equipped with the DHP and still doesnt feel 100% up to BMW snuff. Hopefully, the Dinan springs I'll order later this summer will help with that.

[Mike_L]

Its an automatic world. Theres a reason why 92% of US car buyers get the automatic, because its just flat out better for our world.

[TBolts10]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

Fan favorite to who? Its a turd. Complete waste of money. Be better off with a Honda or Toyota if you're gonna skimp on options. Thats for the paupers who are buying for the badge. I've said it before and I stand by it.

You make the most ridiculous comments of anyone on this entire forum. Congratulations.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

Its an automatic world. Theres a reason why 92% of US car buyers get the automatic, because its just flat out better for our world.

92% of car buyers in the US, maybe. That statistic doesn't apply to the rest of the world. Automatics are preferred in America because they were readily available and affordable at a much earlier point in time in comparison to many other parts of the world. Let me put it to you this way: you like to relax and sleep while you drive, while we like to drive while we drive. When I'm driving, there isn't anything else I would rather be doing.

[skw]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

Theres a reason why 92% of US car buyers get the automatic...

One part technological advances:

DCT in an M5 or the 8AT in our F30's, yes they can shift faster and do things not humanly possibly w/ the 6MT

Two parts laziness:

With the exception of a WRX or STI, the younger demographic buying a Civic, Golf, etc don't even bother to learn to how to drive a manual transmission. It's "too much work" or they're too busy eating, on the phone, etc while driving. They'll eventually grow into the demographic buying a new car one day and that 92% will increase even further.

[Mike_L]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

92% of car buyers in the US, maybe. That statistic doesn't apply to the rest of the world. Automatics are preferred in America because they were readily available and affordable at a much earlier point in time in comparison to many other parts of the world. Let me put it to you this way: you like to relax and sleep while you drive, while we like to drive while we drive. When I'm driving, there isn't anything else I would rather be doing.

Worldwide the take rate for automatics is in the 70% area. The only places in the world where manuals sell over 50% are India and a couple of South American countries.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

Worldwide the take rate for automatics is in the 70% area. The only places in the world where manuals sell over 50% are India and a couple of South American countries.

We don't care about what 99% of people prefer. Do you live your life comparing yourself to other people? Or do you strive for your own success?

[TBolts10]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

Worldwide the take rate for automatics is in the 70% area. The only places in the world where manuals sell over 50% are India and a couple of South American countries.

You very well could be the most ignorant person on earth.

[Mike_L]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

We don't care about what 99% of people prefer. Do you live your life comparing yourself to other people? Or do you strive for your own success?

You'll care when your beloved gearbox is dropped because theres no market for it.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

You'll care when your beloved gearbox is dropped because theres no market for it.

Stick BMWs will be around while there's demand. Clearly there's demand if we've made it this far, I mean North America even gets manual M5/M6s while the rest of the world doesn't!

[Mike_L]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

Stick BMWs will be around while there's demand. Clearly there's demand if we've made it this far, I mean North America even gets manual M5/M6s while the rest of the world doesn't!

Oh they'll offer it for the dummies who'll buy it, but that doesn't mean they care. The stick in your car is the same one used in the E39 back in 1997. They don't even care enough to update the thing there are so few sales.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

Oh they'll offer it for the dummies who'll buy it, but that doesn't mean they care. The stick in your car is the same one used in the E39 back in 1997. They don't even care enough to update the thing there are so few sales.

You are so misinformed you are actually entertaining

You do know the E39 came with 2 manual transmissions right? A 5 speed in the 6 cyl models and a 6 speed in the V8s?

And that the N55 equipped cars have a ZF gearbox while the N20 cars have a Getrag?

The manual in my car originated in the 1M coupe and is used in all N55/S55 cars.

Here's the part number with compatability info:

http://parts.bmwmonterey.com/p/BMW__...007617492.html

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

Oh they'll offer it for the dummies who'll buy it, but that doesn't mean they care. The stick in your car is the same one used in the E39 back in 1997. They don't even care enough to update the thing there are so few sales.

Also, you call MT drivers dummies? I guess one of the heads of development of the BMW M division is a dummy for driving his north american 6MT M6 around europe...

http://www.autoforum.cz/testy-aut/ry...-mezi-vrcholy/

[TBolts10]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

Oh they'll offer it for the dummies who'll buy it, but that doesn't mean they care. The stick in your car is the same one used in the E39 back in 1997. They don't even care enough to update the thing there are so few sales.

No, it's definitely not the same transmission. Why are people dumb if they have a different preference than you? Again, your ignorance is simply stunning.

[justinnum1]

Best way to get rid of the troll is not respond to him.

[JJS]

Originally Posted by skw

One part technological advances:

DCT in an M5 or the 8AT in our F30's, yes they can shift faster and do things not humanly possibly w/ the 6MT

Two parts laziness:

With the exception of a WRX or STI, the younger demographic buying a Civic, Golf, etc don't even bother to learn to how to drive a manual transmission. It's "too much work" or they're too busy eating, on the phone, etc while driving. They'll eventually grow into the demographic buying a new car one day and that 92% will increase even further.

MT could be a theft deterrent one day, if fewer and fewer young people know how to drive stick shifts. Awesome.

[SH89]

Personally I have only ever driven manuals apart from a couple days in a 5 series with the zf auto. While the automatic was better than anticipated it was just so boring to drive. Also I think anything above the 3/4 series, where the balance of sport/luxury shifts more towards luxury then a manual is out of place. With lower powered cars a manual adds to driver involvement and enjoyment I think. Sports auto would be a must for me if it definitely had to be an auto.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Best way to get rid of the troll is not respond to him.

+1

[the_phew]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

You'll care when your beloved gearbox is dropped because theres no market for it.

I assume you'll be the first in line for the self-driving cars? After all, "manual" driving will then be "antiquated" and "obsolete". And virtual reality sexual intercourse when it makes "manual" sex obsolete?

More technologically advanced doesn't necessarily equate to better or more fun. I have more fun driving manual, and will give my money to automakers that sell me what I want. The U.S. market for MT-equipped vehicles is roughly $2billion/yr, and this number has stayed relatively constant (inflation-adjusted) for over a decade. Why would every automaker decide they don't want a piece of this mostly inelastic market? Their shareholders would kill them if they left this $ on the table.

Other people can buy and drive whatever they want, and I won't devote a second of my time worrying about their choices.