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      02-22-2018, 01:34 PM   #155
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Quote:
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Attention Florida Customers: If you are local to Active Autowerke (9940 SW 168th Terrace, Miami, FL 33157), there is no need to purchase the Simon Cable. All you need to do is purchase the map from Extreme Power House and drive down to AA for a free install.
Any chance of a discount for those of us who don't live in FL?
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      02-22-2018, 01:34 PM   #156
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Any chance of a discount for those of us who don't live in FL?
Pm sent
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      02-22-2018, 04:52 PM   #157
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I have been talking with Nic of AA extensively as well here post tune, setting up for proper logging when I do the next dyno. The other thing he mentioned that he feels as N55s approach 20lbs psi boost, that a 3.5bar TMAP sensor is a worthy upgrade.

I have been digging around, and looks like $85ish from all of the typical places, though reading stock TMAP can be good to 23lbs. Looks like you can get a 3.5bar which is good to 36lbs, and a 4.0 good to 43lbs (which I just cant imagine at this point).

I would say I am VERY likely a 3.5 sensor in my future, if for nothing less as prep work for tightening up the tune a bit.

**correction.. just ordered it.. I needed a couple of other small things anyway, so bundled the parts together for free shipping** 8)
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      02-22-2018, 06:02 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raichean View Post
**correction.. just ordered it.. I needed a couple of other small things anyway, so bundled the parts together for free shipping** 8)
Awesome ! Time for another DIY video!
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      02-22-2018, 07:22 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raichean View Post
I have been talking with Nic of AA extensively as well here post tune, setting up for proper logging when I do the next dyno. The other thing he mentioned that he feels as N55s approach 20lbs psi boost, that a 3.5bar TMAP sensor is a worthy upgrade.

I have been digging around, and looks like $85ish from all of the typical places, though reading stock TMAP can be good to 23lbs. Looks like you can get a 3.5bar which is good to 36lbs, and a 4.0 good to 43lbs (which I just cant imagine at this point).

I would say I am VERY likely a 3.5 sensor in my future, if for nothing less as prep work for tightening up the tune a bit.

**correction.. just ordered it.. I needed a couple of other small things anyway, so bundled the parts together for free shipping** 8)
Only way you're going 36 or 43 psi is with a built motor i know you already knew. Even a 3.0 bar sensor would be good to 29psi. I have a 3.5 map sensor on my DSM because we are running 36psi with E85

When do you think you may have a performance review for us?
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      02-22-2018, 07:27 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceedawg View Post
Only way you're going 36 or 43 psi is with a built motor i know you already knew. Even a 3.0 bar sensor would be good to 29psi. I have a 3.5 map sensor on my DSM because we are running 36psi with E85

When do you think you may have a performance review for us?
Figure I will run video and results on my next dyno.. I HOPE that my DP will be here soon, though I doubt in time if I do another dyno in a couple of weeks.
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      02-22-2018, 07:34 PM   #161
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Figure I will run video and results on my next dyno.. I HOPE that my DP will be here soon, though I doubt in time if I do another dyno in a couple of weeks.
That DP looks like it will be fun to put on LOL! Looks like it will be a PITA but when you do your video on it I hope you will show us how it can be done easy. The Kies Motorsport vid showed me that I wont have the patience. lmao
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      02-23-2018, 11:57 AM   #162
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F30 335 Stock (With Downpipe) vs Active Autowerke OBD Flash Stage 2 +65whp / +109wtq
(notice how important a quality FMIC is to this car. it loses a lot of power after 5500 RPM)

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      02-23-2018, 02:23 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
F30 335 Stock (With Downpipe) vs Active Autowerke OBD Flash Stage 2 +65whp / +109wtq
(notice how important a quality FMIC is to this car. it loses a lot of power after 5500 RPM)

Both are losing power at 5500rpms. So both need FMICs correct? Or does one have and the other does not?
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      02-23-2018, 02:23 PM   #164
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Just ordered my AA Flash from Mike - looking to see even further improvement over the A8 I currently have installed
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      02-23-2018, 02:36 PM   #165
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Just ordered my AA Flash from Mike - looking to see even further improvement over the A8 I currently have installed
Congrats
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      02-23-2018, 05:32 PM   #166
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Ok guys.. after wanting to throw my brand new video camera out the window like 12 times, I have finished the DIY for the tune! Yeah, for complexity, this is about as easy as it gets!

Thanks to Mike and XPH being the place to go for this!

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      02-23-2018, 05:58 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
F30 335 Stock (With Downpipe) vs Active Autowerke OBD Flash Stage 2 +65whp / +109wtq
(notice how important a quality FMIC is to this car. it loses a lot of power after 5500 RPM)

Everything I've read says the drop in power in beyond ~5500rpms with a stock turbo N55 with a tune is merely the result of the turbo exceeding it's efficiency and blowing has hard as it can.

BMW goes to great lengths to artificially deliver a naturally aspirated powerband. With the standard issue N55, power drops after about 5800rpms (a bit less with PWG cars). With the MPPK and M2 N55s power drops after around 6200rpms. When you tune these cars, you wreck that OEM power delivery and greatly increase low and midrange power. When you do this, you reveal the efficiency range of the N55 turbo which peaks at around 5500-5700rpms just like we're seeing with this AA dyno.

I don't disagree that heat soak can affect stock intercooler BMWs and there are plenty of dynos out there showing this, but IMO, this is not what we're seeing with these dynos. From what I'm seeing, this is tune that is pushing the turbo to it's maximum, if not slightly beyond. Perhaps a lack of fuel as well.

We'll have to see what others see with their own independent dynos. This is a Mustang dyno afterall. It's a great way to really develop a solid tune. It's a great tool to influence your results if you so choose. I'm not in anyway saying AA is doing this, but you can easily manipulate data with a Mustang to show gains that aren't there or underscore the base dyno, etc. A Dynojet? Not really. There's some BSing you can do, but it's really easy to see.
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Last edited by XutvJet; 02-23-2018 at 06:04 PM..
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      02-23-2018, 06:28 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Everything I've read says the drop in power in beyond ~5500rpms with a stock turbo N55 with a tune is merely the result of the turbo exceeding it's efficiency and blowing has hard as it can.

BMW goes to great lengths to artificially deliver a naturally aspirated powerband. With the standard issue N55, power drops after about 5800rpms (a bit less with PWG cars). With the MPPK and M2 N55s power drops after around 6200rpms. When you tune these cars, you wreck that OEM power delivery and greatly increase low and midrange power. When you do this, you reveal the efficiency range of the N55 turbo which peaks at around 5500-5700rpms just like we're seeing with this AA dyno.

I don't disagree that heat soak can affect stock intercooler BMWs and there are plenty of dynos out there showing this, but IMO, this is not what we're seeing with these dynos. From what I'm seeing, this is tune that is pushing the turbo to it's maximum, if not slightly beyond. Perhaps a lack of fuel as well.

We'll have to see what others see with their own independent dynos. This is a Mustang dyno afterall. It's a great way to really develop a solid tune. It's a great tool to influence your results if you so choose. I'm not in anyway saying AA is doing this, but you can easily manipulate data with a Mustang to show gains that aren't there or underscore the base dyno, etc. A Dynojet? Not really. There's some BSing you can do, but it's really easy to see.
I am +30rwp with my setup including Active 8, prior to this flash all on dyno jets. I am hoping to get another run planned in the next two weeks with the flash onboard now.
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      02-23-2018, 08:17 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Everything I've read says the drop in power in beyond ~5500rpms with a stock turbo N55 with a tune is merely the result of the turbo exceeding it's efficiency and blowing has hard as it can.

BMW goes to great lengths to artificially deliver a naturally aspirated powerband. With the standard issue N55, power drops after about 5800rpms (a bit less with PWG cars). With the MPPK and M2 N55s power drops after around 6200rpms. When you tune these cars, you wreck that OEM power delivery and greatly increase low and midrange power. When you do this, you reveal the efficiency range of the N55 turbo which peaks at around 5500-5700rpms just like we're seeing with this AA dyno.

I don't disagree that heat soak can affect stock intercooler BMWs and there are plenty of dynos out there showing this, but IMO, this is not what we're seeing with these dynos. From what I'm seeing, this is tune that is pushing the turbo to it's maximum, if not slightly beyond. Perhaps a lack of fuel as well.

We'll have to see what others see with their own independent dynos. This is a Mustang dyno afterall. It's a great way to really develop a solid tune. It's a great tool to influence your results if you so choose. I'm not in anyway saying AA is doing this, but you can easily manipulate data with a Mustang to show gains that aren't there or underscore the base dyno, etc. A Dynojet? Not really. There's some BSing you can do, but it's really easy to see.

There is one way to know for sure... We need a dyno for a car with full FBO and active stage 2
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      02-23-2018, 08:29 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Everything I've read says the drop in power in beyond ~5500rpms with a stock turbo N55 with a tune is merely the result of the turbo exceeding it's efficiency and blowing has hard as it can.

BMW goes to great lengths to artificially deliver a naturally aspirated powerband. With the standard issue N55, power drops after about 5800rpms (a bit less with PWG cars). With the MPPK and M2 N55s power drops after around 6200rpms. When you tune these cars, you wreck that OEM power delivery and greatly increase low and midrange power. When you do this, you reveal the efficiency range of the N55 turbo which peaks at around 5500-5700rpms just like we're seeing with this AA dyno.

I don't disagree that heat soak can affect stock intercooler BMWs and there are plenty of dynos out there showing this, but IMO, this is not what we're seeing with these dynos. From what I'm seeing, this is tune that is pushing the turbo to it's maximum, if not slightly beyond. Perhaps a lack of fuel as well.

We'll have to see what others see with their own independent dynos. This is a Mustang dyno afterall. It's a great way to really develop a solid tune. It's a great tool to influence your results if you so choose. I'm not in anyway saying AA is doing this, but you can easily manipulate data with a Mustang to show gains that aren't there or underscore the base dyno, etc. A Dynojet? Not really. There's some BSing you can do, but it's really easy to see.
I agree with you and this is definitely true in the n54 world. However once the turbos are upgraded they seem to hold power better. People say the n55 is a bit better about holding power but so far all the graphs I see power falls off hard. Real hard. I think this really robs the feel of the car actuslly. It makes it much less fun. It was a major gripe for me in my n54.

Concerning your points about dynos .. where do mainline dyno fit in the spectrum. I haven't heard much about them. They are known to read to real
Low. As in lower than mustang?
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      02-23-2018, 08:34 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
There is one way to know for sure... We need a dyno for a car with full FBO and active stage 2
I am going to guess there will be a lot of dynos flooding this forum soon and that's a great thing.

I am new to my 435i and one thing that shocked me about this forum is the lack of dyno charts floating around.

It seems like stage one is 315-320 and stage2+ is 350-370.
I will also guess all the tunes make the same AA MHD BM3.

Then you throw into the equation the various dyno types. It gets tricky. Hopefully we see some 1/4 times and traps. I have no idea what to expect. Stage 1 13 flat? Stage 2+ 12.5???
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      02-23-2018, 08:37 PM   #172
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Quote:
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It seems like stage one is 315-320 and stage2+ is 350-370.
I will also guess all the tunes make the same AA MHD BM3.
Tunes have the ability to make the same power, meaning if you load the same map using any of the tuning hardware it will yield the same power.

That being said not all maps are equal, so not all tunes will be making the same power (at least not out of the box without having to pay someone for custom tuning)

The torque and power curve of Active Autowerke is very impressive. The best i have seen from an off the shelf map so far
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      02-23-2018, 08:43 PM   #173
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I gotta tell ya. I have mppk and the throttle mapping in sport plus is so incredible. Like really beautiful. I really hope a tune doesn't ruin thst.
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      02-23-2018, 08:45 PM   #174
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Mike I will have a custom done soon and will share. I am concerned that it won't be apples to apples given it will be on a mainline dyno. Do you know much about them ?
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      02-23-2018, 09:06 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raichean View Post
Ok guys.. after wanting to throw my brand new video camera out the window like 12 times, I have finished the DIY for the tune! Yeah, for complexity, this is about as easy as it gets!

Thanks to Mike and XPH being the place to go for this!
Very timely as I should be doing this early next week. Thanks for posting. Now, given my advancing years, do you have a video that will help me find my keys??
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      02-23-2018, 11:55 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Everything I've read says the drop in power in beyond ~5500rpms with a stock turbo N55 with a tune is merely the result of the turbo exceeding it's efficiency and blowing has hard as it can.

BMW goes to great lengths to artificially deliver a naturally aspirated powerband. With the standard issue N55, power drops after about 5800rpms (a bit less with PWG cars). With the MPPK and M2 N55s power drops after around 6200rpms. When you tune these cars, you wreck that OEM power delivery and greatly increase low and midrange power. When you do this, you reveal the efficiency range of the N55 turbo which peaks at around 5500-5700rpms just like we're seeing with this AA dyno.

I don't disagree that heat soak can affect stock intercooler BMWs and there are plenty of dynos out there showing this, but IMO, this is not what we're seeing with these dynos. From what I'm seeing, this is tune that is pushing the turbo to it's maximum, if not slightly beyond. Perhaps a lack of fuel as well.

We'll have to see what others see with their own independent dynos. This is a Mustang dyno afterall. It's a great way to really develop a solid tune. It's a great tool to influence your results if you so choose. I'm not in anyway saying AA is doing this, but you can easily manipulate data with a Mustang to show gains that aren't there or underscore the base dyno, etc. A Dynojet? Not really. There's some BSing you can do, but it's really easy to see.
Not gonna assume that the car is running lean because there is no AFR plot

but I will say it points to the known in-efficiency of the turbo and exhaust

manifold combo mostly and then perhaps maybe some attributed to the

stock FMIC and not the tune.That I agree. The torque and power curve are impressive in-spite of

the fall off. We will get an even clearer view of things when Raichen dynos

his car. Hopefully we will see an AFR plot and maybe even a boost plot

added with his dyno.
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