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      10-11-2017, 10:42 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadar View Post
Map 7 jb4 with race has 15-20hp difference leave or take a couple in favor of the EWG car due to bigger turbo and exhaust down pipe.

If you are on the fence get an EWG car no doubt.
+1

With the downpipe @ 4" versus 3.5" this allows for more flow and better turbo spool..

Tuned EWG is also much more refined, as the EWG provides better control of the waste gates.

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      10-11-2017, 01:45 PM   #24
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A big example is, I was FBO JB4 and barely walked away from my buddy who had a stock 435xi. On 91 octane, he walks away top end every time, on 94 I would be barely half a car length in front.

Stock for stock, the EWG will pull away fast top end vs PWG, easily would put a couple car lengths.

Stock PWG turbo is very limited to tuning if you don't have access to E-85. and even then, a FBO EWG will still pull on you. The PWG turbo was REALLY bad for the 1st gen F30s, you basically have the same turbo as the E-series N55.

Which is the reason why I decided to skip PS1 (due to the advice of multiple tuners and PureTurbos themselves) I wanted 400AWHP on 91 and I managed to get that easily with BM3 and PS2. The difference of the top end of PS2 vs Stock PWG turbo is absolutely night and day. The drop after 5k is non-existant, and tuning is much easily as you have more room to play, you're only now limited to octane and HPFP. Instead of turbo.

Here's an example, I was on the highway cruising and a E60 M5 (stock) pulled up next to me, we pulled at 80kph, we were neck and neck until after 140-150kph, I started to walk him quickly, this was on 94 octane. PS2 is the shit for both EWG and PWG. But it's much easier to tune the EWG than the PWG. Only advantage of the PWG is we're able to have 2x more E-85 mix than EWG can.
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      10-12-2017, 01:19 AM   #25
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stage 1 pwg has 360-380 crank hp, stock ewg has 306hp, so could you tell me how its possible for stock ewg beat pwg? stock ewg has virtually the same boost as ewg max 0.55 bar, stage1 pwg has 0.9bar @ 5000rpm and 0.7bar at 6000rpm, dont think its possible for stock ewg beat it. yes, ewg turbo can produce ~30hp more _when_tuned_, thats it. in stock form both ewg and pwg are slowww, because of very low boost targets.


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Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
A big example is, I was FBO JB4 and barely walked away from my buddy who had a stock 435xi. On 91 octane, he walks away top end every time, on 94 I would be barely half a car length in front.

Stock for stock, the EWG will pull away fast top end vs PWG, easily would put a couple car lengths.

Stock PWG turbo is very limited to tuning if you don't have access to E-85. and even then, a FBO EWG will still pull on you. The PWG turbo was REALLY bad for the 1st gen F30s, you basically have the same turbo as the E-series N55.

Which is the reason why I decided to skip PS1 (due to the advice of multiple tuners and PureTurbos themselves) I wanted 400AWHP on 91 and I managed to get that easily with BM3 and PS2. The difference of the top end of PS2 vs Stock PWG turbo is absolutely night and day. The drop after 5k is non-existant, and tuning is much easily as you have more room to play, you're only now limited to octane and HPFP. Instead of turbo.

Here's an example, I was on the highway cruising and a E60 M5 (stock) pulled up next to me, we pulled at 80kph, we were neck and neck until after 140-150kph, I started to walk him quickly, this was on 94 octane. PS2 is the shit for both EWG and PWG. But it's much easier to tune the EWG than the PWG. Only advantage of the PWG is we're able to have 2x more E-85 mix than EWG can.
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      10-12-2017, 01:29 AM   #26
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PWG is 30 crank hp down either tuned or stock. And NO, stg1 piggyback is not remotely getting PWG to 360-380 crank. It adds 3-4psi down low and taper to 1-2 up top, or realistically a 20hp hump in peak power and even a little less in usable power on WOT. That?s why stock EWG can walk away from piggybacked PWG.

And I don?t even have to explain why bigger turbo makes more power at same boost. I?m sure that 99.99% think of heat or air density or something, which isn?t really why.
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      10-12-2017, 03:38 AM   #27
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so piggyback is crap then (knew it for a long time). what I'm getting with stock vs stage1 flash :
6000rpm 0.47bar vs 0.7bar = 0.23bar = 3.3psi difference
5000rpm 0.5bar vs 0.9bar = 0.4 bar = 5.8 psi difference
can prove it with logs, logged both stock and stage1. If you look at stock software pwg and ewg, Nm targets are 100% the same. And I know for sure that turbo is still not maxxed out some guys make 0.2 bar more with PWG turbo at 6000rpm, so it's not the limit. But I agree upgrading turbo is always good idea, will make it also

compare :
435i stock :

335i stage1 :


its night and day, about 2 seconds difference 0-160km/h (0-100mph)

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Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
PWG is 30 crank hp down either tuned or stock. And NO, stg1 piggyback is not remotely getting PWG to 360-380 crank. It adds 3-4psi down low and taper to 1-2 up top, or realistically a 20hp hump in peak power and even a little less in usable power on WOT. That?s why stock EWG can walk away from piggybacked PWG.

And I don?t even have to explain why bigger turbo makes more power at same boost. I?m sure that 99.99% think of heat or air density or something, which isn?t really why.

Last edited by enemigo13; 10-12-2017 at 03:59 AM.
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      10-12-2017, 06:35 AM   #28
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Try this to test the "area under the curve". STG1 vs STG2 I did both in 4th into 5th.

STG1


STG2
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      10-12-2017, 07:55 AM   #29
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Quote:
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Try this to test the "area under the curve". STG1 vs STG2 I did both in 4th into 5th.

STG1


STG2
I wish you had tested stock turbo too
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      10-12-2017, 10:35 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
stage 1 pwg has 360-380 crank hp, stock ewg has 306hp, so could you tell me how its possible for stock ewg beat pwg? stock ewg has virtually the same boost as ewg max 0.55 bar, stage1 pwg has 0.9bar @ 5000rpm and 0.7bar at 6000rpm, dont think its possible for stock ewg beat it. yes, ewg turbo can produce ~30hp more _when_tuned_, thats it. in stock form both ewg and pwg are slowww, because of very low boost targets.
It's basically where you add power and make it.

PWG tuned will make more power low and midish range, but barely any up top due to the limitations of the stock turbo.

EWG hold a lot more boost up top safely and more efficiently due to the electronic wastegate and slightly bigger turbo.

I believe someone made a little chart of TQ percentage increase and decrease for EWG VS PWG. It seems PWG makes more TQ low range to midish. And EWG makes loses a bit of TQ low range but makes up for it mid and top end.

Which is why a stock EWG will walk away from PWG tuned everytime. On a roll, you spend 99% of the time above 4.5-5k RPM, and basically that's where the PWG starts to fall off a cliff, where the EWG is still in it's power band till 5800-6k rpm and beyond if it's tuned correctly.

A pure stage 1 would equal PWG, and a Pure stage 2 would be ridiculously better for PWG as it makes up for all it's downsides.

But again this is comparing pump gas (91 and 93 octane only) once you add meth and ethanol, it's different, but EWG will always come out more dominant.

#regretmyPWG
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      10-12-2017, 10:47 AM   #31
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When a pwg car upgrades to a ps2 is a 4? dp needed also?
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      10-12-2017, 11:48 AM   #32
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it will not. see above 2 videos. 435xi is stock (435 was always ewg) 335xi is stage 1 pwg. difference is night and day, 335xi is much faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
Which is why a stock EWG will walk away from PWG tuned everytime.
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      10-12-2017, 12:17 PM   #33
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When a pwg car upgrades to a ps2 is a 4? dp needed also?
No it utilizes the same 3.5? downpipe.
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      10-12-2017, 12:38 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
When a pwg car upgrades to a ps2 is a 4? dp needed also?
No it utilizes the same 3.5? downpipe.
Curious since ps2 has bigger exhaust side
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      10-12-2017, 12:41 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
When a pwg car upgrades to a ps2 is a 4? dp needed also?
No it utilizes the same 3.5? downpipe.
Curious since ps2 has bigger exhaust side
The flange on the PS two does not change You were getting a core that?s been bored out it came off of another PWG car, you get a bored out turbo with the bigger intake impeller and a bigger exhaust impeller. The V band flange which is 3.5 inches does not change that houses is your 3.5 inch downpipe. The case is different for an EWG car they come with the 4 inch V band flange and will utilize the same appropriately.
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      10-12-2017, 12:45 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
When a pwg car upgrades to a ps2 is a 4? dp needed also?
No it utilizes the same 3.5? downpipe.
Curious since ps2 has bigger exhaust side
The flange on the PS two does not change You were getting a core that?s been bored out it came off of another PWG car, you get a bored out turbo with the bigger intake impeller and a bigger exhaust impeller. The V band flange which is 3.5 inches does not change that house is your 3.5 inch downpipe. The case is different for an EWG car they come with the 4 inch V band flange and will utilize the same appropriately.
Then a ewg ps2 is better than a pwg ps2
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      10-12-2017, 12:46 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
it will not. see above 2 videos. 435xi is stock (435 was always ewg) 335xi is stage 1 pwg. difference is night and day, 335xi is much faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
Which is why a stock EWG will walk away from PWG tuned everytime.
Im not sure what videos youre talking about
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      10-12-2017, 12:48 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
When a pwg car upgrades to a ps2 is a 4? dp needed also?
No it utilizes the same 3.5? downpipe.
Curious since ps2 has bigger exhaust side
The flange on the PS two does not change You were getting a core that?s been bored out it came off of another PWG car, you get a bored out turbo with the bigger intake impeller and a bigger exhaust impeller. The V band flange which is 3.5 inches does not change that house is your 3.5 inch downpipe. The case is different for an EWG car they come with the 4 inch V band flange and will utilize the same appropriately.
Then a ewg ps2 is better than a pwg ps2
Theoretically yes it will always be better because it at half inch difference. But PWG cars make up for that loss and being able to run more e85 so it?s sort of becomes a wash if you plug-in PS2 into the equation. Currently the fastest quarter mile pure stage two cars are PWG running high tens so that?ll tell you everything you need to know.

If you?re keeping stock turbo I?m not planning upgrade like I said in my earlier statement, definitely EWG is the way to go.
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      10-12-2017, 12:49 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
When a pwg car upgrades to a ps2 is a 4? dp needed also?
No it utilizes the same 3.5? downpipe.
Curious since ps2 has bigger exhaust side
The flange on the PS two does not change You were getting a core that?s been bored out it came off of another PWG car, you get a bored out turbo with the bigger intake impeller and a bigger exhaust impeller. The V band flange which is 3.5 inches does not change that house is your 3.5 inch downpipe. The case is different for an EWG car they come with the 4 inch V band flange and will utilize the same appropriately.
Then a ewg ps2 is better than a pwg ps2
Theoretically yes it will always be better because it at half inch difference. But PWG cars make up for that loss and being able to run more 85 so it?s sort of becomes a wash if you plug-in PS2 into the equation. Currently the fastest quarter mile pure stage two cars are PWG running high tens so that?ll tell you everything you need to know.

If you?re keeping stock turbo I?m not planning upgrade like I said in my earlier statement, definitely EWG is the way to go.
Ill get ps2 before i trade in for a ewg car
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      10-12-2017, 12:51 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
When a pwg car upgrades to a ps2 is a 4? dp needed also?
No it utilizes the same 3.5? downpipe.
Curious since ps2 has bigger exhaust side
The flange on the PS two does not change You were getting a core that?s been bored out it came off of another PWG car, you get a bored out turbo with the bigger intake impeller and a bigger exhaust impeller. The V band flange which is 3.5 inches does not change that house is your 3.5 inch downpipe. The case is different for an EWG car they come with the 4 inch V band flange and will utilize the same appropriately.
Then a ewg ps2 is better than a pwg ps2
Theoretically yes it will always be better because it at half inch difference. But PWG cars make up for that loss and being able to run more 85 so it?s sort of becomes a wash if you plug-in PS2 into the equation. Currently the fastest quarter mile pure stage two cars are PWG running high tens so that?ll tell you everything you need to know.

If you?re keeping stock turbo I?m not planning upgrade like I said in my earlier statement, definitely EWG is the way to go.
Ill get ps2 before i trade in for a ewg car
Oh absolutely, there?s no doubt about it bolting it up transforms the car to different levels. PS two saws all your issues or any bigger turbo for that matter. Then it?s all a matter of tuning and which tutor you go with after that there are plethora of options I recommend bm3.
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      10-12-2017, 01:11 PM   #41
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Im not sure what videos youre talking about
my post, few posts up. 435i stock acceleration and 335i pwg stage1. acceleration difference is night&day.
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      10-12-2017, 01:57 PM   #42
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sicmadek View Post
Im not sure what videos youre talking about
my post, few posts up. 435i stock acceleration and 335i pwg stage1. acceleration difference is night&day.
I see it now
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      10-12-2017, 06:59 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadar View Post
Theoretically yes it will always be better because it at half inch difference. But PWG cars make up for that loss and being able to run more e85 so it?s sort of becomes a wash if you plug-in PS2 into the equation. Currently the fastest quarter mile pure stage two cars are PWG running high tens so that?ll tell you everything you need to know.

If you?re keeping stock turbo I?m not planning upgrade like I said in my earlier statement, definitely EWG is the way to go.
All the fastest cars run PI which negates the fuelling PWG/EWG question. Both 10 sec cars that I know of are EWG, but they might as well have been PWG I guess.
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      10-12-2017, 07:11 PM   #44
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadar View Post
Theoretically yes it will always be better because it at half inch difference. But PWG cars make up for that loss and being able to run more e85 so it?s sort of becomes a wash if you plug-in PS2 into the equation. Currently the fastest quarter mile pure stage two cars are PWG running high tens so that?ll tell you everything you need to know.

If you?re keeping stock turbo I?m not planning upgrade like I said in my earlier statement, definitely EWG is the way to go.
All the fastest cars run PI which negates the fuelling PWG/EWG question. Both 10 sec cars that I know of are EWG, but they might as well have been PWG I guess.
Yup pretty much equal at that point and all else will depend on temps and altitude at that point to get best times.

This was the PWG car I was referring to this past summer it was the fastest f30 n55.


The two cars that broke into the 10?s are both M135i?s I?m not sure what they are pwg or EWG. But like you said it makes no difference with the mods they?re running it negates it all.
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