[InControl]

Guys, give the guy a break - he's just trying to sell his car starting high. So here's a valid offer.

how about 34,000 USD?

[335isdriver]

Originally Posted by trucheli

Again, that's a basic car not even compared to mine. Since you are so sure about your numbers why don't you add the Cold Weather Package, Dynamic Handling Package, Driver Assistant package, Harman Kardom and Rear Sunshade to that basic car on Carmax and let me know how much I should sell mine for. Keep enlightening me.

You may not have noticed; but that car is actually faster than yours as it has the M Performance Power Kit installed. You want to talk equal packages, fine, here. This has every package that you have including DHP and it has upgrade M Performance wheels. Basically, it's a car with a higher MSRP than yours and Carmax is selling for...$49,998 (still overpriced by about 5%).

http://www.carmax.com/enus/view-car/...results%20page

Regarding the depreciating asset conversation; it doesn't matter if you lease or buy, the car itself is depreciating in value. Just because you try to find suckers to buy the car for above what it's worth, doesn't mean your car doesn't depreciate. Buying at ED invoice, then selling 1 year later, can net you a great deal and cost less than leasing and transferring the lease...but it also take a lot more work and because you are paying tax on the full value of the car, most people would lose money because an 8% tax on a $60k car is what most people would pay for a year's worth of lease payments.

[trucheli]

Originally Posted by 335isdriver

You may not have noticed; but that car is actually faster than yours as it has the M Performance Power Kit installed. You want to talk equal packages, fine, here. This has every package that you have including DHP and it has upgrade M Performance wheels. Basically, it's a car with a higher MSRP than yours and Carmax is selling for...$49,998 (still overpriced by about 5%).

http://www.carmax.com/enus/view-car/...results%20page

Regarding the depreciating asset conversation; it doesn't matter if you lease or buy, the car itself is depreciating in value. Just because you try to find suckers to buy the car for above what it's worth, doesn't mean your car doesn't depreciate. Buying at ED invoice, then selling 1 year later, can net you a great deal and cost less than leasing and transferring the lease...but it also take a lot more work and because you are paying tax on the full value of the car, most people would lose money because an 8% tax on a $60k car is what most people would pay for a year's worth of lease payments.

FYI, not even close to mine. Those two cars are basic dealers cars with Premium, Technology and Harman Kardom. (No Cold Weather Package, No Driver Assitant Package, No Dynamic Handling Package and No 19in Wheels) Adjustable suspension comes standard with the M Sport Line
This is how it works on those Carmax cars: The dealer send those demo cars to auction at around $40,000 then CarMax buy them and sell them at a $9000 profit. There is a big difference between buying a demo car not knowing how many people test drove the car and how was driven during break in period and my cars. I would never buy a car from Carmax that has less options without knowing the real history of the car just to save a couple of thousand dollars. That's why I buy new and I guess all those suckers who bought from me took that into consideration. You haven't find a car like mine yet so keep on looking.
I think you reading comprehension is lacking. I' ve never said that my car didn't depreciate, I stated that leasing was a waste of money because even with depreciation I have been able to turn a depreciable asset by buying low and selling high (or braking even) into an appreciable asset by building equity minimizing my cost of ownership. I guess the socialist in this board don't like to hear that. With that logic anyone who bought a car from a dealer at MSRP, $xxx over invoice or even below invoice is also a sucker because the dealer is making a profit.

Let me correct you again regarding the taxes, in Florida is 6% but if you show your car as a trade in doing a passthru you only pay taxes on the difference. Better yet, if you sell a vehicle with a higher value than the one you are purchasing your tax liability is $0.

[335isdriver]

Originally Posted by trucheli

FYI, not even close to mine. Those two cars are basic dealers cars with Premium, Technology and Harman Kardom. (No Cold Weather Package, No Driver Assitant Package, No Dynamic Handling Package and No 19in Wheels) Adjustable suspension comes standard with the M Sport Line
This is how it works on those Carmax cars: The dealer send those demo cars to auction at around $40,000 then CarMax buy them and sell them at a $9000 profit. There is a big difference between buying a demo car not knowing how many people test drove the car and how was driven during break in period and my cars. I would never buy a car from Carmax that has less options without knowing the real history of the car just to save a couple of thousand dollars. That's why I buy new and I guess all those suckers who bought from me took that into consideration. You haven't find a car like mine yet so keep on looking.
I think you reading comprehension is lacking. I' ve never said that my car didn't depreciate, I stated that leasing was a waste of money because even with depreciation I have been able to turn a depreciable asset by buying low and selling high (or braking even) into an appreciable asset by building equity minimizing my cost of ownership. I guess the socialist in this board don't like to hear that. With that logic anyone who bought a car from a dealer at MSRP, $xxx over invoice or even below invoice is also a sucker because the dealer is making a profit.

Let me correct you again regarding the taxes, in Florida is 6% but if you show your car as a trade in doing a passthru you only pay taxes on the difference. Better yet, if you sell a vehicle with a higher value than the one you are purchasing your tax liability is $0.

It's not even close to yours in that it's better - you obviously are blind otherwise you would have seen the dynamic handling pkg listed and the photos of the cold weather pkg. You're right it doesn't have 19in wheels, it has 20in M Performance forged wheels that cost $4,750. In either case you are just making stuff up about how it's an auction car, because if you checked the Carfax, you would have known it's purchased as a personal use vehicle.

Regarding taxes; you can only minimize taxes if you are doing a trade-in to a dealer and purchasing a new car from that same dealer as the difference between the trade in and the new car would be your purchase price. You can't sell a used car and deduct that sales price from another car that you purchase in your tax filings.

[trucheli]

Originally Posted by 335isdriver

It's not even close to yours in that it's better - you obviously are blind otherwise you would have seen the dynamic handling pkg listed and the photos of the cold weather pkg. You're right it doesn't have 19in wheels, it has 20in M Performance forged wheels that cost $4,750. In either case you are just making stuff up about how it's an auction car, because if you checked the Carfax, you would have known it's purchased as a personal use vehicle.

Regarding taxes; you can only minimize taxes if you are doing a trade-in to a dealer and purchasing a new car from that same dealer as the difference between the trade in and the new car would be your purchase price. You can't sell a used car and deduct that sales price from another car that you purchase in your tax filings.

Let me correct you again and for the last time I am not going to waste any of my time answering to people who think they know what they are talking about and just here to talk out of their asses.
I have to give you that the car has the Performance wheels, you are only correct on that. FYI Aftermarket parts don't have any value on the used car market. The only packages listed on that car are Premium, Technology and Harman Kardom, Nothing else. The car has the M Sport Line and for your information Adjustable suspension comes standard with the M Sport Line. No other package available. If the car would've had Cold Weather package like you said it has, you would have seen it on the bumper. Therefore, No Cold Weather Package.
I am going to give you a little piece of information that maybe you don't know like the rest of the people who think they are getting a great deal on Carmax. When you buy from Carmax you automatically loose your free maintenance, not only that, your Manufacturer Warranty gets reduce to 3 years and 36,000 miles. Just on that alone my car has a much better value than any of those cars.
You keep arguing about the taxes showing your ignorance about what a pass-thru means. Let me spell it for you. A pass-thru is when you show your car as a trade in at the dealer. The dealer buys the car from me and sells it to my private buyer, the buyer gets a free inspection and the peace of mind that the car has no bodywork done, no mechanical issues, the right amount of thread on the tires and sometimes they can evem get a certification with an extended warranty for an additional amount that will extend the warranty to 100,000 miles if the buyer wants to take advantage of that option. Since I buy a new car every year the tax savings apply to my case.

[omaralt]

Originally Posted by trucheli

Let me correct you again and for the last time I am not going to waste any of my time answering to people who think they know what they are talking about and just here to talk out of their asses.
I have to give you that the car has the Performance wheels, you are only correct on that. The only packages listed on that car are Premium, Technology and Harman Kardom, Nothing else. The car has the M Sport Line and for your information Adaptive suspension comes standard with the M Sport Line. No other package available.
I am going to give you a little piece of information that maybe you don't know like the rest of the people who think they are getting a great deal on Carmax. When you buy from Carmax you automatically loose your free maintenance, not only that, your Manufacturer Warranty gets reduce to 3 years and 36,000 miles. Just on that alone my car has a much better value than any of those cars.
You keep arguing about the taxes showing your ignorance about what a pass-thru means. Let me spell it for you. A pass-thru is when you show your car as a trade in at the dealer. The dealer buys the car from me and sells it to my private buyer, the buyer gets a free inspection and the peace of mind that the car has no bodywork done, no mechanical issues, the right amount of thread on the tires and sometimes they can evem get a certification with an extended warranty for an additional amount that will extend the warranty to 100,000 mile if the buyer wants to take advantage of that option. Since I buy a new car every year the tax savings apply to my case.

You are so mis informed it hurts.

1- adaptive suspension is not standard on m sport. You only get adaptive suspension with the dynamic handling package

2- you do not lose your free maintenance on any 2014 BMW

3- your warranty is not affected at all when you buy from Carmax. The normal 4 yr 50k mile BMW warranty follows the car and any owner during that time period.

4- when you buy a car you pay sales tax on the entire price of the car, while with a lease you only pay tax on the monthly payment. The only tax incentive you can get is when you trade in a car and buy another car from the dealer you only pay tax on the difference. That's it. So if you sell your car privately and then buy another car you are paying sales tax on two cars. Let's say each car is $50k and your tax rate is 7%. You will spend $7k on taxes on both cars. Get it?

[omaralt]

I'm gonna break down the taxes thing one more time for you

Say you bought the car for $50k and your tax rate is 7%. You just paid $3500 in taxes. If you sell it privately a year later you spent $3500 in taxes to drive it one year. Had you leases it (assuming $500/month payment) you just spent $420 in taxes for the year. See the difference?

[trucheli]

Originally Posted by omaralt

You are so mis informed it hurts.

1- adaptive suspension is not standard on m sport. You only get adaptive suspension with the dynamic handling package

2- you do not lose your free maintenance on any 2014 BMW

3- your warranty is not affected at all when you buy from Carmax. The normal 4 yr 50k mile BMW warranty follows the car and any owner during that time period.

4- when you buy a car you pay sales tax on the entire price of the car, while with a lease you only pay tax on the monthly payment. The only tax incentive you can get is when you trade in a car and buy another car from the dealer you only pay tax on the difference. That's it. So if you sell your car privately and then buy another car you are paying sales tax on two cars. Let's say each car is $50k and your tax rate is 7%. You will spend $7k on taxes on both cars. Get it?

Are you retarded, I just told you what a pass-thru means and you keep arguing the same point. I am not misinformed, the Carmax warranty maintenance and warranty is a fact. Call them up and prove my point. That does not have Dynamic handling period. I even took the time to call and I make sure that the information I post is a fact unlike you.

[trucheli]

Originally Posted by omaralt

I'm gonna break down the taxes thing one more time for you

Say you bought the car for $50k and your tax rate is 7%. You just paid $3500 in taxes. If you sell it privately a year later you spent $3500 in taxes to drive it one year. Had you leases it (assuming $500/month payment) you just spent $420 in taxes for the year. See the difference?

Not my case.

[omaralt]

Originally Posted by trucheli

Are you retarded, I just told you what a pass-thru means and you keep arguing the same point. I am not misinformed, the Carmax warranty maintenance and warranty is a fact. Call them up and prove my point. That does not have Dynamic handling period. I even took the time to call and I make sure that the information I post is a fact unlike you.

You are a f@cking idiot. Thr BMW warranty is 4 yr 50k miles. Doesn't matter who the f*ck you buy it from. Car max or some Shady dealer. The only way the warranty gets taken away is if the car is totaled.

The free maintenance transfers to the new owner on any 2014 car. For 2015 the maintenance is non-transferable.

You started several times that you get adaptive suspension with m sport. I'm correcting your mistake

Sorry I didn't realize you were doing a pull through. Hope you get caught and get ass raped in jail

[SteveL1]

I for one hope you get your asking price. I'm in a similar position with a '14 435ix M-Sport with an MSRP of $63,100 and getting ready to sell. Mine only has 2,300 miles on it and I've been offered $49k-$51k trade in by three different dealers in the past week. Seems to me that if they are willing to give me that much trade, they will likely sell for around $52-$53k.

GLWS

[yerffejleahcim]

Originally Posted by omaralt

You are so mis informed it hurts.

1- adaptive suspension is not standard on m sport. You only get adaptive suspension with the dynamic handling package

2- you do not lose your free maintenance on any 2014 BMW

3- your warranty is not affected at all when you buy from Carmax. The normal 4 yr 50k mile BMW warranty follows the car and any owner during that time period.

4- when you buy a car you pay sales tax on the entire price of the car, while with a lease you only pay tax on the monthly payment. The only tax incentive you can get is when you trade in a car and buy another car from the dealer you only pay tax on the difference. That's it. So if you sell your car privately and then buy another car you are paying sales tax on two cars. Let's say each car is $50k and your tax rate is 7%. You will spend $7k on taxes on both cars. Get it?

All correct. I just wish my Msport had the Adaptive suspension free. Hehe. Didn't want to pay $1000 for DHP.

Yup thats why i love to lease. Tax only on monthly payment. :-)

[Ph0zenstone]

Why all the scrutiny? Just let the man sell his car. The market will correct the price and determine fair market value

[yerffejleahcim]

Originally Posted by Phorbo216

Because he's one step below a snake oil salesman, trying to offload yet another USED car for a profit by exaggerating his car's worth and providing false information/half-truths. He remains delusional after 10+ other members called him out on his claims. A BMW is a fairly significant purchase, and we are a forum of many intelligent and well-informed members who's got each other's back so he should be willing to take the heat. He's mad he can't find a sucker to pay anywhere close to his asking price this time around.

Amen to this!

[Ph0zenstone]

Originally Posted by Phorbo216

Because he's one step below a snake oil salesman, trying to offload yet another USED car for a profit by exaggerating his car's worth and providing false information/half-truths. He remains delusional after 10+ other members called him out on his claims. A BMW is a fairly significant purchase, and we are a forum of many intelligent and well-informed members who's got each other's back so he should be willing to take the heat. He's mad he can't find a sucker to pay anywhere close to his asking price this time around.

not that i'm defending him but if a buyer comes around and is willing to pay his asking price based on the condition, options, etc - isn't that the buyer's decision to make and indicative of fair market value? i understand you're looking out for other members but nobody will make a $50K purchase without doing some research themselves. And if they do, then they probably have a shit ton of money and don't care about +/- $10K

alternatively, if he doesn't find any buyers for his asking price, i'm sure other potential buyers will make reasonable offers at which point he will make a counteroffer and eventually come to terms with the potential buyer. At that negotiated price - i would say that's also fair market value.

In summary, it's not like he's falsifying records and saying the car has options it doesn't have or rolling back the mileage. If he was then i'd have a problem with that but as far as i can see, the car has what he says it has. Whatever the seller/buyer agree to is between them.

[sleeeper]

I am pretty sure that there is bargaining room in any pre-owned sale asking price. If you are in the market for a pre-owned 2014 F32 fully loaded with an original MSRP of $64k, PM me because I am ready to sell mine. BSM/BLK, It has 12k miles. I added M-Performance 20s and they and the previous M 19s will come with the car. The car also comes with a 7 year, 100k mile extended warranty, which is optional. I am prepared to accept REASONABLE depreciation, otherwise don't bother. You guys are an entertaining lot BTW.

Cheers,
Sleeeper

[Bmwman325]

Think of your car as a mattress. You bought this mattress lets say 6 months ago, and you've been sleeping on it so it's slightly used, a little sweat on it maybe. Now, you list your mattress for sale for the same exact price as someone could buy new off the showroom floor at a mattress store. Now, would you buy a used mattress (even slightly used) for the same price as a brand new one that no one else has slept on?

[Falafel Combo]

I was wondering why this thread had 4 pages. Makes sense. Lol.


If anyone is interested, look up OPs previous posts on the M3 forums. This thread is almost a post by post re-inactment. Dude has some impeccable logic.

[335isdriver]

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

I was wondering why this thread had 4 pages. Makes sense. Lol.


If anyone is interested, look up OPs previous posts on the M3 forums. This thread is almost a post by post re-inactment. Dude has some impeccable logic.

Thanks - I went through OP's previous posts and now it all makes sense.

OP likes to minimize his cost of car ownership by purchasing around ED invoice before loyalty and other incentives getting him to at or under ED invoice pricing on the cars. He then drives the car for ~1 year and sells it at around the purchase price (sometimes profiting slightly and sometimes not). Seems that in the times he's not profited, he's only out ~3-4k or around $300/mo which he justifies as lower than any lease payment you can get on a 70k car. I think most people understand strategy, and it's a good strategy. There's a few issues that forum users get hung up on:

1. Taxes. OP does a pass-thru using a dealer where he sells the car to a private party but does the transaction thru a dealer so the sale counts as a trade in towards a new car. This minimizes his taxes but is not free. OP has said in previous posts that he's paid ~$1k as a dealer cost but then negotiated down the dealer fees when buying a car so it equals out. This is also a good strategy, but it doesn't work in all states due to varying laws.

2. Depreciation. BMW's ED invoice is low enough that it covers OP's depreciation for the first year so there is little to no depreciation that the OP has to pay for out of pocket. This is also why he doesn't want to keep a car longer than 1 year as he would be fully responsible for depreciation after the car value drops below ED invoice price.

3. Building equity. OP constantly mentions that he is building equity which has caused confusion. OP has been taking low interest loans and making payments on the cars that he's bought, thus building equity over time. Since he's not losing much money on each sale, the principle that he's paid into each previous car carries over to the next car as a downpayment, thus lowering his monthly payment and interest costs. Soon, OP will be able to purchase a car without financing. Ex. If OP buys a 70k car for 60k and finances it on 5 year at very low interest (probably 1.5% give or take), he pays ~1k/mo + interest charges (for simplicity's sake). After 1 year, the car is worth 60k and he's paid 12k into the car making the loan balance 48k. When he sells the car for 60k, he'll be up by 12k (before accting for interest fees) after paying off the 48k loan. This is how he's building equity over time.

4. Cost of travel to do ED. OP does not factor this into his calculation because it's a vacation and he'll spend the money regardless. Also, OP uses points which minimizes cost of travel.


Overall, a good strategy to minimize costs - nothing wrong with this. The issue comes in OP's sales tactic and being both confrontational and condescending to posters that don't understand his entire story. At the same time, he's also over priced his car and argues, without much merit, on his valuation which hurts his credibility. His previous sales seem to be priced slightly better as M cars hold more value, and it's hard to buy M cars at/below ED invoice. I was recently offered $3k below invoice ($52.8k on 60k MSRP) for a new 2014 435i as the '15 models have arrived and BMW has additional incentives to move old models. So while forums members do appreciate a well taken-care of car, we also are fully aware of what a car is worth. OP should have more respect for the intelligence of the members and not take offense when people in-the-know question his valuation. If he wants to sell the 435i, which is not an M and doesn't hold value as well, for a profit, he needs to do it elsewhere. We all know businesses make a profit selling stuff, but nobody likes it when a business or seller gloats about how well they did on a deal.

[FC4]

OP, will you take $53.5?

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by 335isdriver

Thanks - I went through OP's previous posts and now it all makes sense.

OP likes to minimize his cost of car ownership by purchasing around ED invoice before loyalty and other incentives getting him to at or under ED invoice pricing on the cars. He then drives the car for ~1 year and sells it at around the purchase price (sometimes profiting slightly and sometimes not). Seems that in the times he's not profited, he's only out ~3-4k or around $300/mo which he justifies as lower than any lease payment you can get on a 70k car. I think most people understand strategy, and it's a good strategy. There's a few issues that forum users get hung up on:

1. Taxes. OP does a pass-thru using a dealer where he sells the car to a private party but does the transaction thru a dealer so the sale counts as a trade in towards a new car. This minimizes his taxes but is not free. OP has said in previous posts that he's paid ~$1k as a dealer cost but then negotiated down the dealer fees when buying a car so it equals out. This is also a good strategy, but it doesn't work in all states due to varying laws.

2. Depreciation. BMW's ED invoice is low enough that it covers OP's depreciation for the first year so there is little to no depreciation that the OP has to pay for out of pocket. This is also why he doesn't want to keep a car longer than 1 year as he would be fully responsible for depreciation after the car value drops below ED invoice price.

3. Building equity. OP constantly mentions that he is building equity which has caused confusion. OP has been taking low interest loans and making payments on the cars that he's bought, thus building equity over time. Since he's not losing much money on each sale, the principle that he's paid into each previous car carries over to the next car as a downpayment, thus lowering his monthly payment and interest costs. Soon, OP will be able to purchase a car without financing. Ex. If OP buys a 70k car for 60k and finances it on 5 year at very low interest (probably 1.5% give or take), he pays ~1k/mo + interest charges (for simplicity's sake). After 1 year, the car is worth 60k and he's paid 12k into the car making the loan balance 48k. When he sells the car for 60k, he'll be up by 12k (before accting for interest fees) after paying off the 48k loan. This is how he's building equity over time.

4. Cost of travel to do ED. OP does not factor this into his calculation because it's a vacation and he'll spend the money regardless. Also, OP uses points which minimizes cost of travel.


Overall, a good strategy to minimize costs - nothing wrong with this. The issue comes in OP's sales tactic and being both confrontational and condescending to posters that don't understand his entire story. At the same time, he's also over priced his car and argues, without much merit, on his valuation which hurts his credibility. His previous sales seem to be priced slightly better as M cars hold more value, and it's hard to buy M cars at/below ED invoice. I was recently offered $3k below invoice ($52.8k on 60k MSRP) for a new 2014 435i as the '15 models have arrived and BMW has additional incentives to move old models. So while forums members do appreciate a well taken-care of car, we also are fully aware of what a car is worth. OP should have more respect for the intelligence of the members and not take offense when people in-the-know question his valuation. If he wants to sell the 435i, which is not an M and doesn't hold value as well, for a profit, he needs to do it elsewhere. We all know businesses make a profit selling stuff, but nobody likes it when a business or seller gloats about how well they did on a deal.

Nailed it!

[loveskiing]

Originally Posted by 335isdriver

Thanks - I went through OP's previous posts and now it all makes sense.

OP likes to minimize his cost of car ownership by purchasing around ED invoice before loyalty and other incentives getting him to at or under ED invoice pricing on the cars. He then drives the car for ~1 year and sells it at around the purchase price (sometimes profiting slightly and sometimes not). Seems that in the times he's not profited, he's only out ~3-4k or around $300/mo which he justifies as lower than any lease payment you can get on a 70k car. I think most people understand strategy, and it's a good strategy. There's a few issues that forum users get hung up on:

1. Taxes. OP does a pass-thru using a dealer where he sells the car to a private party but does the transaction thru a dealer so the sale counts as a trade in towards a new car. This minimizes his taxes but is not free. OP has said in previous posts that he's paid ~$1k as a dealer cost but then negotiated down the dealer fees when buying a car so it equals out. This is also a good strategy, but it doesn't work in all states due to varying laws.

2. Depreciation. BMW's ED invoice is low enough that it covers OP's depreciation for the first year so there is little to no depreciation that the OP has to pay for out of pocket. This is also why he doesn't want to keep a car longer than 1 year as he would be fully responsible for depreciation after the car value drops below ED invoice price.

3. Building equity. OP constantly mentions that he is building equity which has caused confusion. OP has been taking low interest loans and making payments on the cars that he's bought, thus building equity over time. Since he's not losing much money on each sale, the principle that he's paid into each previous car carries over to the next car as a downpayment, thus lowering his monthly payment and interest costs. Soon, OP will be able to purchase a car without financing. Ex. If OP buys a 70k car for 60k and finances it on 5 year at very low interest (probably 1.5% give or take), he pays ~1k/mo + interest charges (for simplicity's sake). After 1 year, the car is worth 60k and he's paid 12k into the car making the loan balance 48k. When he sells the car for 60k, he'll be up by 12k (before accting for interest fees) after paying off the 48k loan. This is how he's building equity over time.

4. Cost of travel to do ED. OP does not factor this into his calculation because it's a vacation and he'll spend the money regardless. Also, OP uses points which minimizes cost of travel.


Overall, a good strategy to minimize costs - nothing wrong with this. The issue comes in OP's sales tactic and being both confrontational and condescending to posters that don't understand his entire story. At the same time, he's also over priced his car and argues, without much merit, on his valuation which hurts his credibility. His previous sales seem to be priced slightly better as M cars hold more value, and it's hard to buy M cars at/below ED invoice. I was recently offered $3k below invoice ($52.8k on 60k MSRP) for a new 2014 435i as the '15 models have arrived and BMW has additional incentives to move old models. So while forums members do appreciate a well taken-care of car, we also are fully aware of what a car is worth. OP should have more respect for the intelligence of the members and not take offense when people in-the-know question his valuation. If he wants to sell the 435i, which is not an M and doesn't hold value as well, for a profit, he needs to do it elsewhere. We all know businesses make a profit selling stuff, but nobody likes it when a business or seller gloats about how well they did on a deal.

I am usually on the side of laissez-faire or allowing folks to ask/charge whatever they wish although to be totally candid, there are times when I've had to literally sit on my fingers to prevent them from exposing someone who (at least on the surface) appears to be asking a price that is exorbitant based on a myriad of factors. Suffice to say with this thread, albeit with a hefty dose of thinking errors and personal attacks, I've learned a lot about buying low and selling high/tax dodges/pass thru's/etc. and have appreciated the time and effort that some of the more enlightened members have proffered. In that regard I am grateful...