[Supr3me]

Got the update from Pure on Stage 2 vs Pure800:

The 800 did replace our original STG2. Everything about the 800 is larger. Larger compressor wheel, larger turbine wheel, larger internals, and completely CNC machined. The 800 out performs in every way.
-Charles
Operations Manager

[Supr3me]

Originally Posted by Nugget

You're not going to max out the stock HPFP on a Pure Stage 1 (or even the old stage 2) if you are just using straight pump fuel.

Should I change the minimum fueling requirements to: "93 octane, stock hpfp" ?

[Nugget]

I'd say so.
You would probably need an upgraded HPFP if you want to run ethanol.

[jackstrath]

So realistically is getting 480whp isnt going to happen on just pump fuel (93 ron) using just a stage 1 pure

[Supr3me]

Originally Posted by jackstrath

So realistically is getting 480whp isnt going to happen on just pump fuel (93 ron) using just a stage 1 pure

Good point, if I'm going to adjust the minimum, I need to adjust the HP figure too. Their website said 30 HP with pump gas and no tune. I'll say 400-420 HP range for minimum fueling unless someone has a better estimate

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by jackstrath

So realistically is getting 480whp isnt going to happen on just pump fuel (93 ron) using just a stage 1 pure

No.

[kern417]

I was going to quote everybody but maybe easier just to throw everything I know out there.

Pure stage 1 is like a clipped stock wheel. Maybe 50hp more than stock when it's all the way turned up. You need additional fueling to take advantage of it, because the stock turbo can max out the fuel pump. Basically you won't make any more power with PS1 than stock if you don't upgrade fueling.

PS2 is now Pure800, and they have basically proven it's all marketing. No one is making 800hp with it. They basically made a PS2 TU.

Vargas GC is about halfway between PS1 and PS2/800. Hybrid turbo so same design style.

To reiterate, all of these hybrids are the same. They shove bigger wheels in the stock housing. The only way to get proper Big turbo A/R is with Doc Race/Big Boost, or wait for the VTT GC+. That's why Pure requires a core, so they can rebuild your manifold/exhaust housing into another pure turbo.

Also, VTT uses garrett-sized wheels but not genuine garrett wheels.

If you haven't gone big turbo, I highly recommend trying it if at all possible. Test drive a buddies car or right passenger. Slower spool isn't as bad as it sounds. In general, you have just as much torque in most scenarios. It just takes longer to get to your new, higher peak torque. So in the shifting example, you can still feel torque climbing when you shift at 2-2.5k, which is an awesome feeling. Just don't slap a turbo that's too big for your car. a 58-62mm wheel is perfect for street driving.

Also spool is different than transient response. Building boost doesn't take longer when you're already up in the rev range. You basically only face that delay when accelerating from a stop. Yeah, flat torque curves are fun. But it's the exponential increase in torque across the rev range that makes turbo kits worth it.

I'll put it this way. When was the last time you heard someone go BACK to stock turbo?

[theone1973]

TTE 580 hybrid : https://tteglobal.co.uk/bmw/6-series...ocharger?c=413

[Supr3me]

Originally Posted by theone1973

TTE 580 hybrid : https://tteglobal.co.uk/bmw/6-series...ocharger?c=413

Added, with what info I had. Do you know any more about the fueling? Looks like their shop car was using meth + pump fuel (not sure if Shell VPower is 102 RON or what over there), but I don't know if that's considered minimum fueling or recommended fueling.

Someone should tell them that "We feel this is a great performing 550+hp hybrid" isn't a very strong marketing statement

[Supr3me]

Originally Posted by kern417

I was going to quote everybody but maybe easier just to throw everything I know out there.

Good color on this topic, thanks.

Originally Posted by kern417

Pure stage 1 is like a clipped stock wheel. Maybe 50hp more than stock when it's all the way turned up. You need additional fueling to take advantage of it, because the stock turbo can max out the fuel pump. Basically you won't make any more power with PS1 than stock if you don't upgrade fueling.

Not sure what updates to make to the PS1 option based on this info. Is the low-end HP value too high?
I'm also confused about the max HP figure- I'm hearing that the stock turbo should make about 500 HP with adequate fueling, so 500 seems too low for a max HP figure.

[theone1973]

Originally Posted by Sµpreme

Added, with what info I had. Do you know any more about the fueling? Looks like their shop car was using meth + pump fuel (not sure if Shell VPower is 102 RON or what over there), but I don't know if that's considered minimum fueling or recommended fueling.

Someone should tell them that "We feel this is a great performing 550+hp hybrid" isn't a very strong marketing statement

Sorry I have no more Info

[kern417]

Originally Posted by Sµpreme

Good color on this topic, thanks.



Not sure what updates to make to the PS1 option based on this info. Is the low-end HP value too high?
I'm also confused about the max HP figure- I'm hearing that the stock turbo should make about 500 HP with adequate fueling, so 500 seems too low for a max HP figure.

That's why I was saying that power capacity is a good metric, but "low end" HP isn't something you can document. It depends on what fuel pump, fuel octane, meth, etc. you have as supporting mods. Like our stock turbo can make less power than stock...you can't really quantify a minimum necessarily.

Stock turbo record is held by Pete at just over 500whp before he did the Pure800, and PS1 should bet good for 550 or so with supporting fuel.

[jackstrath]

Sooooo il put a spanner back in the works as ive now seen a yes and a no....

PS1 hybrid, BM3 St2 93, figures to be expected on pump fuel, with standard fuel pump and "stage 1/TU" pump ? No Exx, no WMI ect

Im just on the fence for the next upgrade for the car, im not after anything mega, just would be nice to have a 500bhp daily on pump fuel alone, a "stage 1" hybrid seems like the easiest way to go.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Sµpreme

This is exactly the kind of user xp info we needed, and backs up what I'm hearing from the company rep. Thank you!

Peter is a company rep, he works for Pure.
He does always seem to be very open with information.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by jackstrath

Sooooo il put a spanner back in the works as ive now seen a yes and a no....

PS1 hybrid, BM3 St2 93, figures to be expected on pump fuel, with standard fuel pump and "stage 1/TU" pump ? No Exx, no WMI ect

Im just on the fence for the next upgrade for the car, im not after anything mega, just would be nice to have a 500bhp daily on pump fuel alone, a "stage 1" hybrid seems like the easiest way to go.

I know some people get away with it, but I am not a fan of running hybrid turbos with OTS stock turbo tunes. You might have enough adjustment in the DME for the car to compensate, but you're actively eating into your safety net. Not a good idea. Get a custom tune.

[JD11937]

Originally Posted by kern417

I know some people get away with it, but I am not a fan of running hybrid turbos with OTS stock turbo tunes. You might have enough adjustment in the DME for the car to compensate, but you're actively eating into your safety net. Not a good idea. Get a custom tune.

I second this, not to mention you are leaving power on the table.

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

For those Curious about the GC+. It is a completely new unit not built from factory cores the same as the GC, but it goes further and uses a new cast 310 Stainless turbine house, and manifold. Direct plug, and play with the factory lines, downpipes, etc. It will utilize our 3-4" silicone inlet pipe to mate to any intakes on the market. It will utilize a GTX3582R sized CHRA, with Garrett RS wheel profile for the turbine wheel, and a custom Gen 2 profile on the compressor wheel.

We expect this unit to support in the 800-850WHP area. The other "800" offerings use a factory turbine manifold, and compressor housing with just an inlet welded onto it, leaving most of the factory restrictions in place. Which is why it is considered a hybrid. We expect to have the sample here in a couple of months and released in hopefully 3-4 months. The GC's are still on schedule to begin shipping in mid to late Feb...

Any additional questions please do not hesitate to ask. WE do not have a price set yet (it will be competitive or cheaper than similar offerings plus NO CORE CHARGES), the unit is a Journal Bearing unit, with upgraded internals over factory specs.

Pics below of the GC+ CHRA, and compressor housing...

[baldeagleman]

Is the Pure800 a journal bearing?

[jackstrath]

Originally Posted by JD11937

I second this, not to mention you are leaving power on the table.

Sorry, i should of mentioned that a custom tune would be had as well.

So, 500whp with a hybrid with a stage one pump on pump gas only (with a custom tune)

[Supr3me]

Originally Posted by jackstrath

Sorry, i should of mentioned that a custom tune would be had as well.

So, 500whp with a hybrid with a stage one pump on pump gas only (with a custom tune)

Aren't we saying that very close to 500 whp is possible on the stock turbo? What would the advantage of a stage 1 turbo upgrade be?

[jackstrath]

Originally Posted by Sµpreme

Aren't we saying that very close to 500 whp is possible on the stock turbo? What would the advantage of a stage 1 turbo upgrade be?

are we? i thought 500whp was only if you uses E30/WMI

[Supr3me]

Originally Posted by jackstrath

are we? i thought 500whp was only if you uses E30/WMI

Yes, I guess I didn't specify fueling. Ethanol is freely available in my area so with the upgraded pump, it's kind of a foregone conclusion that I'd be using an ethanol blend. But I forget that's not an option for everyone.