[squidlyboy]

How did you get the projector to sit so far back mine protrudes out too much? Did you have to cut the silver housing? If so what tool did you use and how did you measure what to cut?

You definitely have to cut the silver housing _and_ the plastic backing plate behind it. I used a Dremel tool (both the cutting wheel for large chunks and the grinding wheel for finer shaving). Just a heads up that the material BMW uses for their reflector bowl is a kind of a composite plastic that kicks up a TON of super fine dust when you start grinding and cutting. I really recommend a respirator mask and goggles when you do this work. In addition to fine dust flying everywhere, there will also be small bits of plastic that turn into projectiles every now and again. You definitely don't want that getting into your eyes.
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To get these projectors recessed back far enough to where it looks good, its a LOT OF WORK ... but it'll be worth it. If its worth doing yourself, then its worth doing it well. A little extra upfront work will allow these projectors to look insanely dope and you'll be to enjoy these babies for years to come. Go that extra mile bro

Btw... you definitely don't want your projectors looking like this lol (why does that emoticon resemble those projectors?). This is the lazy way to do it. Just stick the projector into the bowl and call it a day

I noticed the angel eyes on that housing is also using the old E90 style LEDs that don't fit, so the LEDs start curving away from the shape of the housing bowl near the top. It would have looked much better if he mounted them concentrically rather than trying to line up the bottom edge of the LEDs to the bottom edge of the bowl. And no acrylic covers either... uggh. I can tell this guy (or company) wanted to do it quick and dirty. Dont be that guy

Below is a diagram of the side view of the F30 halogen headlights. The bowl (in blue) sits in front of the backing plate, and the bowl is mounted to the headlight housing by 3 snap-in connectors (not shown). The backing plate is on a track that can swivel up and down and is used to aim the beam up/down based on turning the adjustment knobs on the outside of the housing.



The problem with retro-fitting bi-xenon projectors (specifically mini-H1's) into an F30 halogen housing is that the reflector bowl is way too small to fit even the smallest bi-xenon projectors on the market. If i can draw a diagram of the F30 reflector bowl in comparison to the mini-H1 projectors (roughly to scale), you'll see what i'm talking about. If you were to place the projector right inside the reflector bowl, without making any modifications, what you get is the picture below (btw.. compare that with the Youtube pic up above). This is the least effort retrofit that you can do. Obviously, it doesn't look that great. In order to recess the projector further back into the housing, more work is going to be needed.



The red-lines shows where i made my cuts in order to push the projectors as far back as possible. You will have to adjust for your specific projectors/shrouds

1. Reflector Bowl - the cuts i made here were needed to accomodate both the projector and the shroud. The shroud is the larger of the two, so the cut i made was really to allow the shroud to pass through the bowl to the backing plate.
2. Backing Plate - the cut i made here was to accomodate only the oval shape of the projector bowl. The shroud did not pass through this plate only because there was no more room (the HID bulb was pretty much almost touching the back of the housing.

I tried to draw the mini-H1 projectors to scale in relation to the headlight housing to show you why its such a challenge to recess them.


The biggest challenge of mounting projectors in an F30 has to do more with the shrouds than the projectors.

TRS told me that the mini-gatlings are the smallest shrouds they carry, but as you can see, they are still pretty huge. That along with the fact that the mini-H1 projector bowls are super long/deep make them hard to retrofit into an F30 halogen housing. But it will work. It works, but there is a LOT of cutting involved. Effectively, you will be recessing them so far back, that the HID xenon bulb at the rear of the projectors will almost touch the access cap at the very back of the headlight housing. When you are done, the projectors will not physically be able to go back any further.
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When everything is done, the projectors are recessed so far back that only about 1/2" of the projector shroud pokes past the front edge of the low-beam bowl (without the acrylic covers on).
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And with the acrylic covers added to the final set up, only the projector lens pokes past the front edge. This really gives it a nice "almost flush" look.
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Here are some before and after side view pics of the low-beam bowl to show how much I cut:
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The backing plate that the reflector bowl is mounted to will also need to be cut, but it will only need to accomodate the back of the projector bowls. For this, i used the Dremel grinding bit.
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To make the cut easier, i just traced out the oval-shape of the project bowl on a piece of paper and taped it to the backing plate.
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I then used blue tape to mark out the area I needed to cut out.
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One last thing ... in addition to the work on the housing elements, i also had to modify the shrouds to allow them pass through the reflector bowl unhindered. Due the the reflector bowl dimensions being barely able to accomodate the large diameter of the shroud, i had to grind down a portion of the top of the shroud, and also a little bit of the top edge of the projector bowl in order to get past the back edge of the reflector bowl. When you do a test fit of the projector+shroud in your reflector bowl, you'll probably see what i'm talking about.
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In the inset picture, you can see the adjustment mechanism on the back mounting plate. The shroud's back edge will hit this obstruction causing it not go back as far as it can, so i had to cut away a portion of the back of the shroud to clear this area. You can see the highlighted yellow marked on the side of the shroud that had to be cut to allow it to clear.
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The top portion of the projector bowl had to be shaved slightly in order to clear the plastic connector at the back top part of the headlight reflector bowl. This plastic connector is important and can not be cut/shaved, as it will be used to hold the reflector bowl to the backing plate.
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After that modification, here is what it looks like doing a test fit of the modified projectors into the reflector bowl. You can see the top portion of the projectors shaved a little to clear the plastic mounting bracket at the back of the headlight reflector bowl.
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The hole in the headlight reflector bowl needs to be large enough to allow the edges of the shroud to pass all the way through. I would suggest that you start with a small hole (start it out oval so that just the back of the projector bowl fits through), and center the projector where you want it, then slowly grow the edges of the holes slowly larger as you expand outward, checking to make sure the projector is still centered where you want it every time you cut/shave a little more. You only want a hole that is barely enough for everything to fit through and no more. Just go slow and take off a little more each time, checking to see if the projector/shroud will fit through. Its a time consuming and tedious process, but if you accidentally take off too much, you can't go back. So go slow. Go steady. and repeat this process until the hole is just right. There's no magic in this process. Its just checking what is obstructing the projector from going all the way back, then shaving that part away. Btw.. I found that I only needed the cutting wheel at the very beginning to cut the initial hole. After that, it was all grinding bit. Its a lot more precise that way. It allows you to take off just a tiny bit more of the plastic with good control over the shape. And not having a lot of practice before hand, there is not a lot of experience to know where/what to cut next, so you'll want a lot of precision in small, controlled cuts.
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Here is the final test of all the cutting and modifying. The front edge of the projector shround only protrudes past the front edge of the reflector bowl by only a miniscule amount. This poke will actually be a bit worse once you mount the reflector bowl back against the back plate, but this a good intermediate sanity check to make sure you are heading in the right direction...
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Btw... i got my hands on a spare reflector bowl from an extra headlight on Ebay for $15. All the tabs were broken off, but at least it had a MINT bowl inside. This is to replace my first bowl that i accidentally peeled all the chrome plating off of with the blue tape. Even though it got ruined, its been useful to have for testing, prototyping, and taking pics with. But now i get to do all this fun stuff all over again ... but this time for reals
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[FeAr Pol]

Hy Guys, i'm Fred from Italy and this is my retrofit Project.
How do you solve the problem with angel eyes flickering ?

[squidlyboy]

Originally Posted by FeAr Pol

Hy Guys, i'm Fred from Italy and this is my retrofit Project.
How do you solve the problem with angel eyes flickering?

The most common form of flickering is due to the cold(at car start)/warm(periodically when car is running) checks the car makes to make sure your halogen bulb is there and that it is working(has a load). You can code these out by specifying you are using LEDs and to disable the checks.

If you tied your LEDs to the DRL wire only:
FEM_01 -> LceLciOutputChannels -> TFL_R_KALTUEBERWACHUNG = nicht_aktiv
FEM_01 -> LceLciOutputChannels -> TFL_R_WARMUEBERWACHUNG = nicht_aktiv
FEM_01 -> LceLciOutputChannels -> TFL_R_IS_LED = aktiv
FEM_01 -> LceLciOutputChannels -> TFL_L_KALTUEBERWACHUNG = nicht_aktiv
FEM_01 -> LceLciOutputChannels -> TFL_L_WARMUEBERWACHUNG = nicht_aktiv
FEM_01 -> LceLciOutputChannels -> TFL_L_IS_LED = aktiv

... and if you also have your Parking Lamp wire connected to them, you'll need this also:
FEM_01 -> LceLciOutputChannels -> POL_R_KALTUEBERWACHUNG = nicht_aktiv
FEM_01 -> LceLciOutputChannels -> POL_R_WARMUEBERWACHUNG = nicht_aktiv
FEM_01 -> LceLciOutputChannels -> POL_R_IS_LED = aktiv
FEM_01 -> LceLciOutputChannels -> POL_L_KALTUEBERWACHUNG = nicht_aktiv
FEM_01 -> LceLciOutputChannels -> POL_L_WARMUEBERWACHUNG = nicht_aktiv
FEM_01 -> LceLciOutputChannels -> POL_L_IS_LED = aktiv

[rnbguy]

Squidlyboy that's amazing detail. Fine work sir.

[a803sgo]

Fallen at the first hurdle!

How does the reflector come out? Does it even have to come out or do I cut it in situ?

I can get at 2 of the 3 snap-in connectors but the 3rd bottom one is impossible to unclip - is there a special way of getting at it?

I test fitted putting the projectors in without cutting a hole for them and they look like poo, definitely need to be recessed but the rings look ace lit up!

How reliable are the LEDs on the rings? I can see them as the week link.

Got to be so careful not to damage the high beam bowl.

TIA.

[squidlyboy]

Originally Posted by a803sgo

How does the reflector come out? Does it even have to come out or do I cut it in situ?

I can get at 2 of the 3 snap-in connectors but the 3rd bottom one is impossible to unclip - is there a special way of getting at it?

I test fitted putting the projectors in without cutting a hole for them and they look like poo, definitely need to be recessed but the rings look ace lit up!

How reliable are the LEDs on the rings? I can see them as the week link.

Got to be so careful not to damage the high beam bowl.

Yes, you definitely need to pull the reflector bowl out if you are doing projectors. You have to cut both the bowl and the back plate for the low-beams if you really want them recessed as far back as possible, and it will be nearly impossible to do that work while leaving them in.

If you are just retrofitting angel eyes, then you can just leave them in while you wire it up. Your room to work with the wiring inside the housing might be a little cramped with the reflector bowl in place, but i think its do-able. Once you have the lens open, putting the angel eyes LEDs on takes like 10 mins. The wiring would probably take an hour or so depending on your wiring skills. Doing projectors takes it to a whole new level - days. This DIY is not for the faint of heart for sure

As far as the reliability of the LEDs, only time will tell.

But back to your question ... the third snap-in connector usually doesn't even need to be undone. If you pull gently/hard enough, it will pop right out. Once you un-do the top 2 snap-in connectors, just wiggle it back and forth, and the bottom one will just come undone by itself.

But if you have to attempt to un-do the bottom connector, you will need to push them inwards (in direction of the yellow arrows) to un-do it. You'll probably need a pick/awl tool and insert it in between the plastic connector and the connector prongs from the back. Be careful because those "arms" are brittle, and you could end up breaking them if you apply too much pressure.

[mkcpu]

squidlyboy
Here is the pin size for the HID/ballasts
thanks

[a803sgo]

Progress over the weekend...









Projectors need to go further back still but got bored/tired just need to trim the top of the projector so it passes the reflector top mount but my Dremel packed up.

I nicked the reflector (you can see i in the last pic in the 3 o'clock position but hopefully wont be too bad once the rings are lit up.

[squidlyboy]

Nice progress a803sgo!

Lol.. maybe you are a little OCD or just a perfectionist, but i think they look great! I agree that they would look better a little more recessed, but i don't think you will be able to recess them much more than they already are. I can relate to your being exhausted after a full day of work. This is extremely taxing and exhausting .. omg

For me .... I took this 3-day weekend to finish my install of the quads, but i ran into some problems that i did not anticipate. Apparently BMW (among others) does not supply a "clean" +12v source to their low-beam headlights and instead it "pulses" (Pulse Wide Modulation or PWM for those more technical). In any case, this wreaks havoc to electronic equipment that requires a nice, clean, steady, flat, +12v power source. My first introduction to this when i first powered on the headlights with the car power was a constant flickering of the HIDs and a loud, annoying buzzing of the relay turning on/off rapidly. I was like, WTF, this worked with my power supply in the house, why is it not working now?? After googling a bit, i discovered that BMW, Audi, and an bunch of other car mfg use PWM for their halogen systems and that its not compatible with bi-xenon systems without some sort of external circuitry to "clean up" the signal to provide a steady +12v source.

Long story short, i had to buy a Warning Canceler that cleaned up the signal and now its all good. Unfortunately, the time wasted trying to figure all this out and ordering the parts on a holiday weekend (Amazon PRIME is AMAZING) proved to be too much, so i wasn't able to get it all done

I can wait another week to finish up this project. After all... i don't know of another F30 in this entire world that has quads installed on it. I'm hoping i'll be the first, but no matter ... I know i'll be the first in my neighborhood

Here is the pin size for the HID/ballasts

Sorry, mkcpu - ran into some unanticipated issues that will require some rework of the relay/harness. I know you have the capacitor link cable from TRS, but if you don't have a capacitor on your low-beam signal that acts as the switch to you relay, it will also pulse on/off, causing your relay to buzz like its about to explode. That was my experience. And then there's the high-beam signal Apparently that also pulses and it wreaks havoc with the solenoids. Still need to figure that one out.

Just some lessons learned from this weekend for those wanting to attempt this retrofit down the road:

1. Wiring is a BITCH - trivial for angel eyes, a little more complicated for normal bi-xenons, but in a completely different ballpark for quads. i took the whole day on Friday to solder, crimp, twist, screw, etc... The biggest problem is space. Placing the relay in there makes everything look cleaner, but trying to work in that cramped housing is a PITA. I was actually at one point entertaining slipping the ballasts in there as well, but theres no way...
2. The chrome "paint" on the reflector bowl comes off when you breathe - be careful where you go with the Dremel. Blue tape will take it off, excessive heat from Dremel work will take it off, and if you are using double-sided tape to apply your angel-eye LEDs, better be right the first time. If you need to adjust later, you can be sure some of the chrome will come off. And it won't just come off in the places where the tape is, it will take a chunk of extra territory with it
3. Quads are an order of magnitude more difficult than a single pair of bi-xenons are an order of magnitude more difficult than just an angel-eye retrofit - don't even know where to begin with this... Everything from wiring, to cutting, to alignment, just a lot of work. There is a reason people charge $2000-$4000 for quads
4. The halogen reflector bowls are not symmetrical - this is an interesting situation. I don't know if BMW did this intentionally to discourage retrofitters or what, but it you look carefully at the reflector bowl on F30 halogens, you'll see that they are not symmetrical... meaning that if you apply your angel eyes to follow their physical lines EXACTLY, the two rings will look off when they are lit up. Or... if you apply the angel eyes to match up when they are lit up, they will not look aligned when you view them at a close-up shot when not lit. Its hard to explain this without a pic. If you are interested in this, i can provide more details, but its not something most people would notice...
5. The power your car provides is not the same as the power your lab/bench test power supply provides - this was my downfall this weekend. I got most of the situation resolved, but it was a set back i did not anticipate

However, even with all those issues i encountered, i can see QUADS at the end of the tunnel!!!

[a803sgo]

Originally Posted by squidlyboy

I discovered that BMW, Audi, and an bunch of other car mfg use PWM for their halogen systems and that its not compatible with bi-xenon systems without some sort of external circuitry to "clean up" the signal to provide a steady +12v source.

I had a VW Golf that did this but i coded it out using VAGCOM to supply 100% power to the light instead of pulsing it, maybe something similar can be done with BMWs?

Originally Posted by squidlyboy

And then there's the high-beam signal Apparently that also pulses and it wreaks havoc with the solenoids. Still need to figure that one out.

Wiring in the shield solenoid to the high beam signal isn't going to work then?

Originally Posted by squidlyboy

The chrome "paint" on the reflector bowl comes off when you breathe.

Thought about painting them - matt black or silver?

Originally Posted by squidlyboy

The halogen reflector bowls are not symmetrical

Can you please explain further, sounds interesting.

BTW your lights look superb, my rings haven't turned up even though they were expected today.

Did you use the little white sticky pads that came with the rings or some epoxy to mount them?

Took some more metal off the top of the projector so got them a little further back, will do the side of it tomorrow to clear the swivel thing on the black back mount and then gluing here we come!

Lots of work but well worth it!

[squidlyboy]

Originally Posted by a803sgo

I had a VW Golf that did this but i coded it out using VAGCOM to supply 100% power to the light instead of pulsing it, maybe something similar can be done with BMWs?

That was what i was thinking too.... I would think there is based on the fact that all the front and rear auxiliary lights can be disabled for the cold/warm checks and specified as LEDs. Why not the low-beam? And the high-beam for that matter.... I know when you VO code your car for the OEM bi-xenons, thats one of the things thats done. I just haven't had the time to look into it yet. Maybe someone knows off-hand if this is possible? Otherwise, gotta do more digging...

EDIT (7/23/2015): Adding these relevant postings here and here for future reference

Originally Posted by a803sgo

Wiring in the shield solenoid to the high beam signal isn't going to work then?

Just wiring it directly caused the solenoids to rapidly open/close causing an annoying buzzing sound as a result. I turned it off immediately so as not to burn them out. I then tried to wire a 470uF 35v capacitor across the high-beam power/ground signals (like i did on the low-beam relay signal line... which worked!!!) on the other headlight to see if this would smooth it out, but then it didn't even turn on. I'm going back to the drawing board and testing out both headlights (one has the cap and the other doesn't) just to make sure i wasn't hallucinating and that they still work with my clean lab/bench power supply source.

Originally Posted by a803sgo

Thought about painting them - matt black or silver?

I like chrome, but i haven't found chrome touch-up paint anywhere yet. I know its out there somewhere. Maybe someone knows where you can get this?

Originally Posted by a803sgo

Did you use the little white sticky pads that came with the rings or some epoxy to mount them?

I used double-sided tape cut out to the curved shape of the rings

Originally Posted by a803sgo

Can you please explain further, sounds interesting.

If you look at the pic i drew, its a little exaggerated, but to make the point, the two ring shapes are not "symmetrical" on the reflector bowl. At first i didn't notice this (its really subtle), and so i just blindly applied the rings to perfectly match the ring curvature. But when i turned on the LEDs, something seemed off. LIke WTF.. why do the rings look crooked?? When i finally realized what was going on, i thought, why would someone design something like this? A 4th grader could do a better job... Then, i said f*** it, i'm going to care more about how symmetrical the rings look LIT UP, and not how they look when you take close-up pics of them in marketing modeling shots of the headlights.

Btw... the reason i'm so mad is because i had to pull the rings off the reflector bowl to re-position them, which took off a chunk of the paint, but more than just where the tape was in contact with the paint. It freakin' peeled off a chunk, if you know if know what i mean... GRRRRRRRRRR

[squidlyboy]

Just running a little sanity check on the lights with my bench power supply to make sure i'm not going crazy. The electrical system that BMW employs for their halogen definitely is not "clean" - no more smoke and mirrors - just have to secure/align the projectors with putty, then seal the lens.

This was the sleepy aggressive look i was going after from day one ... almost there!
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[a803sgo]

Originally Posted by squidlyboy

I then tried to wire a 470uF 35v capacitor across the high-beam power/ground signals (like i did on the low-beam relay signal line... which worked!!!)

In theory this should work, I did the same on my old E46 years ago when I put LED bulbs in everywhere and coding wasn't around for average Joe so i used resistors and capacitors to stop the bulb alarms and flickering.

Originally Posted by squidlyboy

I like chrome, but i haven't found chrome touch-up paint anywhere yet. I know its out there somewhere. Maybe someone knows where you can get this?

I've ordered this, I'll let you know how it turns out.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200-400ml-...-/261783359884

Originally Posted by squidlyboy

I used double-sided tape cut out to the curved shape of the rings.

I got some pre-cut with the rings so will use this, hopefully it'll hold up under the heat!

Originally Posted by squidlyboy

I'm going to care more about how symmetrical the rings look LIT UP, and not how they look when you take close-up pics of them in marketing modeling shots of the headlights.

DITTO and it makes perfect sense and thanks for the heads up.

Trimmed a little bit more of the projector today, I think they're made of adamantium, hopefully get it glued in this weekend!

Like I've said before your quads look so nice, I'm so tempted to do the same.

[mkcpu]

is been a while... anybody fully completed this project (installed and working 100%).

[FeAr Pol]

Weekend progress!!

[a803sgo]

Very nice, did you spray them?

[FeAr Pol]

Matt Grey because the chrome come off!

[a803sgo]

Originally Posted by FeAr Pol

Matt Grey because the chrome come off!

Sorry for all the questions but here they come...

Did you wire up the rings to both the DRL and parking lights?

Did wiring the projector shield to the high beam work ok?

Did you use primer on the refactors first or go straight on with the spray?

TIA.

[FeAr Pol]

Originally Posted by a803sgo

Sorry for all the questions but here they come...

Did you wire up the rings to both the DRL and parking lights?

Did wiring the projector shield to the high beam work ok?

Did you use primer on the refactors first or go straight on with the spray?

TIA.

hi tia, the forums are here for. I apologize in advance but i don't know very well thetechnical English language but I will try to answer you.

The rings wire up only with parking because i like the drl with a 3watt led like the picture.

Thw high beam works great.

I used a specific primer for plastic before spray.

If you need...

[a803sgo]

Originally Posted by FeAr Pol

hi tia

Names not tia, TIA means Thanks In Advance.

Originally Posted by FeAr Pol

The high beam works great.

Good to here but does the shield work properly on the new projector?

They look good on the car but as your cars silver the silver lights match, mines black so probably wont work.

My reflectors are in pretty good condition after all the cutting but i was thinking about spraying them gloss black but leaving the actual high beam bowl so they'll look like this...

[FeAr Pol]

TIA AHAHAHHAHAHA
However the shield work properly if you cut some mm here because there is new angel eye. If you dont cut the automatic lever headlight doesn't work.

[a803sgo]

Originally Posted by FeAr Pol

TIA AHAHAHHAHAHA
However the shield work properly if you cut some mm here because there is new angel eye. If you dont cut the automatic lever headlight doesn't work.

Thanks good to know but that's not what I mean either, there's a shield inside the projector that moves if you've wired it into your high beam - I'm assuming you didn't?