[DaveA]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Amazing. Thank you Rob.

JustChris: Really excited, ordering my dream car... a 911
Sennen: Its a fat pig these days
Also Sennen: Buys an 8 series
Also Sennen: buys son a 911

? ? ? ? ?

I always think of The S Man as a combination of two of Harry Enfield's characters... Firstly there's the intefereing dad who comes out with the "Oh no, you don't want to be doing that" catchphrase and then there's the fellow who comes out with "excuse me, but I could not help but noticing that I appear to be considerably richer than you"....

[Techno 9000]

Originally Posted by JustChris

This has been a good subject recently. I was just in the watch thread and noticed in July Kendo said he was retiring in a year.

So what's your plans folks?......

Well, I have recently crystallised on going at 55 (a couple of years away) with a similar income to that that I have now, but index linked into the future. It will mean taking a small lump sum (no retirement 911 for me ), but maximising my income which, given my hopefully extended retirement, seems to be the better idea.

[Sennen]

Most of you seem to be missing the point here.

Like many of you I was initially interested in what Scoobyd had to say but after having spoken to an actual IFA in person as opposed to an 'Internet Persona' (which is what we all effectively are) he made it quite clear to me that it is absolute lunacy to accept or to give ANY financial advice on a forum in this manner.

Now I am sure Scoobyd is a very good IFA but I am just not sure it is proper and correct to offer advice on this medium.

I am obviously in the minority with this view so I will just let you guys carry on.

As a side note, I have broad shoulders and can handle the 'Gang Mentality' that sometimes prevails on here..... some cant........

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Techno 9000

Well, I have recently crystallised on going at 55 (a couple of years away) with a similar income to that that I have now, but index linked into the future. It will mean taking a small lump sum (no retirement 911 for me ), but maximising my income which, given my hopefully extended retirement, seems to be the better idea.

Great plan and with an income same or similar to now, not much downside!

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Back OT

I requested a quote for the transfer value of my single DB scheme recently. Although having read this thread it feels unlikely that a transfer would be recommended. Three other non-DB schemes in play.

A pity as I agree with what others have posted about having freedom to use one's accrued pots as one wishes. Plus the inheritance point.

Timely, the quote arrived today. It's somewhat surprised me as being almost 52x the annual value of the pension (available from age 60).

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Timely, the quote arrived today. It's somewhat surprised me as being almost 52x the annual value of the pension (available from age 60).

Bloody hell, and I got offered 20! Doesnt seem quite right that the transfer values can be so different.....

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Bloody hell, and I got offered 20! Doesnt seem quite right that the transfer values can be so different.....

I guess it depends how much they want you out, which might depend on the generosity of the scheme? Mine includes dependant's pension (i had forgotten that). Does yours?

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

I guess it depends how much they want you out, which might depend on the generosity of the scheme? Mine includes dependant's pension (i had forgotten that). Does yours?

Spouse but not dependant. But in simple terms its a scheme with more deferred and pension members than live and it has a deficit, they have to be seen to protect the others....

At 52x though I would have been in trouble with the LTA!

[Blacktemplar]

Originally Posted by Techno 9000

Well, I have recently crystallised on going at 55 (a couple of years away) with a similar income to that that I have now, but index linked into the future. It will mean taking a small lump sum (no retirement 911 for me ), but maximising my income which, given my hopefully extended retirement, seems to be the better idea.

Good job, even if the 911 has to be put on hold....

I'm in a similar position, I'm intending to retire next year at just shy of 60, and between the two DB schemes & a DC scheme I have I can live until I'm 85 on pretty much the same income as I have now, but without a mortgage which will be paid off out of the tax-free lump sums. I guess I could (just) squeeze myself into a modestly-specced base Carrera and still have a decent enough lifestyle, but (a) I don't want one and (b) you can't get a dog, 2 grandkids and 4 suitcases in the back of a 911...

Besides, I have other things I'd rather do with my cash.

As others have said, CETV's are crazy at the moment. The larger of my 2 DB's is coming in at the equivalent of 50 x annual pension, even taking a tax-free lump sum and a reduced annual amount (including spouse pension if I croak first) from 59 into account.

I'm running through the Abridged Advice process just now with a view to getting at least the smaller of the 2 DB schemes transferred. I have to say it feels a tad grubby & intrusive, and the fee structure if you go to Full Advice - which may still prevent you from transferring - is hideous. If I'm not permitted free access to my own money (don't get me started) I'll be better off when I'm a drooling crusty than I am now. Madness.

In the end though, if I can free up some of my pot now it means I can set some aside to go to the kids, and still have at least as good an income as I have now, but without the same outgoings.

Still not buying a 911 mind...

[pmgreenwood]

Originally Posted by Blacktemplar

Good job, even if the 911 has to be put on hold....



As others have said, CETV's are crazy at the moment. The larger of my 2 DB's is coming in at the equivalent of 50 x annual pension, even taking a tax-free lump sum and a reduced annual amount (including spouse pension if I croak first) from 59 into account.

.

As a retired pensions Actuary, I can state the reason CETV's are so high is the value implied by the markets of the guarantees involved in the pension provided. For example, index-linked gilts guaranteeing real income actually give a substantial negative real return at present and fixed income gilts similarly give a long-term yield below inflation. Many underestimate the possible future losses involved in giving up those guarantees

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by pmgreenwood

As a retired pensions Actuary, I can state the reason CETV's are so high is the value implied by the markets of the guarantees involved in the pension provided. For example, index-linked gilts guaranteeing real income actually give a substantial negative real return at present and fixed income gilts similarly give a long-term yield below inflation. Many underestimate the possible future losses involved in giving up those guarantees

In plain english.....is that because the pension is inflation linked and goes up with inflation and generating a real return from the funds that create them (with minimal risk) is impossible..... so by swapping out an index linked income to a DC pot, you are trading guaranteed increases that you cant match risk free outside (but you can if you take a risk)

So the question becomes, are you prepared to take a CETV that is 30x higher than the govt assumption and risk it in S&S not cash or bonds afterwards?

I would - in my own case for one DB scheme the difference between 20x and 50x is about half a million! That's a lot of inflation.....

[pmgreenwood]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

In plain english.....is that because the pension is inflation linked and goes up with inflation and generating a real return from the funds that create them (with minimal risk) is impossible..... so by swapping out an index linked income to a DC pot, you are trading guaranteed increases that you cant match risk free outside (but you can if you take a risk)

So the question becomes, are you prepared to take a CETV that is 30x higher than the govt assumption and risk it in S&S not cash or bonds afterwards?

I would - in my own case for one DB scheme the difference between 20x and 50x is about half a million! That's a lot of inflation.....

Yes except each DB scheme accrual will have a particular level of post retirement increase attached which may be RPI or less

Another big factor is the mortality risk which in the DB scheme is shared but after transfer, the individual bears his own until if ever an annuity is bought.
Also it is very easy for individuals to under estimate how inflation grows when compounded as those of us who started work in the 70's know

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by pmgreenwood

Yes except each DB scheme accrual will have a particular level of post retirement increase attached which may be RPI or less

Another big factor is the mortality risk which in the DB scheme is shared but after transfer, the individual bears his own until if ever an annuity is bought.
Also it is very easy for individuals to under estimate how inflation grows when compounded as those of us who started work in the 70's know

personal question for an ex actuary - did you buy an annuity for any DC pension or just do drawdown?

or does the Macan signify a very generous DB scheme

[pmgreenwood]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

personal question for an ex actuary - did you buy an annuity for any DC pension or just do drawdown?

or does the Macan signify a very generous DB scheme

My db scheme was 1/60 this from age 60 but I took a reduced amount for early retirement from age 53

I bought a small index-linked pension annuity (it is 4% of my db pension) with some AVC monies. In addition, I have a SIPP from transfers from 2 years of self-employed policies as a partner in my firm before it was incorporated. I have not drawn any money from the SIPP or my ISA's. I take the Dividends from equities held outside the ISA and they amount to about half the DB pension. Non of the DB pension is fully RPI/CPI indexed with part capped at 3% per year and the other at 5%.

As an illustration of the risk involved in direct investment, I had on retirement in 2007 a target dividend income to support my lifestyle. Over the years since then, which have covered the 2008 and 2009 financial crash and the Covid shock last year, dividends received have varied between 70% and 200% of that original target. Last year they were 80% and this year they look likely to recover to 150% of the original target. Variation has been covered by holding a cash fund of about 18 months usual expenditure

The Macan reflects both a successful investment policy and years of spending restraint and living well within income i.e keeping an ex-company car 528i for 10 years and running two 320D's over a ten year period when I could have run 335i or 340i's or equivalent 5 series if they had not grown so much in size.

[Scoobyd]

Originally Posted by Sennen

Most of you seem to be missing the point here.

Like many of you I was initially interested in what Scoobyd had to say but after having spoken to an actual IFA in person as opposed to an 'Internet Persona' (which is what we all effectively are) he made it quite clear to me that it is absolute lunacy to accept or to give ANY financial advice on a forum in this manner.

Can't help but feel it's you who's missing the point here.

Firstly, given that some forum members have become clients of mine and several others have spoken to me off forum, know who I am in the 'real world' and the details of my company, then I think that's more than proof enough for most that I am who and what I say and am more than just an internet persona.

Secondly, I have never given anyone individual advice specific to their circumstances on here. As yes, that would be lunacy. You can't give anyone individual advice without fully knowing their situation. What I have done, and will continue to do, is share my knowledge to help others where I can. Just as I did with yourself in the posts that Rob shared above. I gave you generic information for which you were seemingly grateful. I gave you no advice. I offered you the opportunity to speak further should you wish and left it there.

Why you choose to keep dumbing down on this position I don't know