[JNW1]

My F31 is the first AWD car I've had and, while the improved traction is certainly nice to have in some circumstances (pulling out of junctions in the wet, etc), I don't regard it as a must-have for my next car. That's not to say I won't consider something like an S4 or C43 (or a G21 340i X-Drive!) but in making my decision AWD won't be the main factor; if BMW offers the G21 340i with both RWD and X-Drive my preference would probably be for the former!

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Ajs_435d

Xdrive is completely useless don't know why anyone would want it /why more manufacturers are moving to it. Of course there is a difference between 4wd and all wheel drive.

I suppose if I didn't have I'd try and justify to myself why it's not useful and why rwd and good tyres is all I need mainly not including driving pleasure.

Xdrive is all wheel drive.

All wheel drive is technically superior to 2 wheel drive in every single way, The only drawbacks are extra cost of manufacturing and slightly lower efficiency on the smaller underpowered engines. Why you'd make such a nonsense statement is beyond me.

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by teaston

Xdrive is all wheel drive.

All wheel drive is technically superior to 2 wheel drive in every single way, The only drawbacks are extra cost of manufacturing and slightly lower efficiency on the smaller underpowered engines. Why you'd make such a nonsense statement is beyond me.

Plus the extra weight of 4WD. And efficiency is compromised on any 4wd vs 2wd car regardless of engine.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by E60525d

Plus the extra weight of 4WD. And efficiency is compromised on any 4wd vs 2wd car regardless of engine.

It's only 75 kg and all that weight is at the very bottom of the car so it actually improves the centre of gravity.

And no, the efficiency is identical on 3l diesels, I have owned both.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by teaston

It's only 75 kg and all that weight is at the very bottom of the car so it actually improves the centre of gravity.

And no, the efficiency is identical on 3l diesels, I have owned both.

You sound like a contestant on Dragons den, explaining about your new invention "xDrive"

Just to let you know where I stand......I'm out

[Zippee]

Originally Posted by teaston

Xdrive is all wheel drive.

All wheel drive is technically superior to 2 wheel drive in every single way, The only drawbacks are extra cost of manufacturing and slightly lower efficiency on the smaller underpowered engines. Why you'd make such a nonsense statement is beyond me.

Because AWD/xDrive has quite a bit of understeer and some unfavourable handling characteristics when pushing hard round turny bits of road. By virtue of what its trying to do, if the rear starts to lose traction, the front takes over so it becomes less predictable. Balancing the throttle, turning the car through the bend is not an elegant affair.

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by teaston

It's only 75 kg and all that weight is at the very bottom of the car so it actually improves the centre of gravity.

And no, the efficiency is identical on 3l diesels, I have owned both.

Any additonal weight is extra weight that you dont want regardless of where it is. How is that a good thing?

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by teaston

All wheel drive is technically superior to 2 wheel drive in every single way

How are you defining technically superior here?

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

How are you defining technically superior here?

As in every way except for cost.

[Zippee]

Originally Posted by teaston

As in every way except for cost.

It is of course, subjective.

When I first got my current car, I was almost the unofficial Ambassador for xDrive. I believed it was the best thing since sliced bread and all cars should have it. Yes, it gets off the line like a race horse on speed, yes its safe and sure footed in the wet. But as a driving fun machine, its sterile. As I mentioned, when pushing hard, it displays some unfavourable handling characteristics.

I think the best all rounder could be the way the new M5 has gone with completely selectable drive. AWD by choice when you need it, RWD for the other 90% of the time.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by teaston

As in every way except for cost.

You need to be a little more specific if you're going to make such a sweeping generalisation.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by teaston

It's only 75 kg and all that weight is at the very bottom of the car so it actually improves the centre of gravity.

And no, the efficiency is identical on 3l diesels, I have owned both.

I'm sorry but you are wrong, there is an efficiency penalty on all xDrive models, regardless of engine. You can't deny the physics, extra weight and drivetrain losses have to be paid for in fuel consumption. WLTP tests are showing the bigger diesel engines have nearly the same fuel 'percentage' drop as the smaller diesel engines.

Your own example, doesn't prove the physics is wrong. Have you had a 330d sDrive and 330d xDrive to the same specifications?

[teaston]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

You sound like a contestant on Dragons den, explaining about your new invention "xDrive"

Just to let you know where I stand......I'm out

And you sound like the septics whining about manual transmissions being phased out!

I can understand the attraction of rear wheel drive back in the old days when cars had less power, but now the big engine cars have far too much power and torque to reliably put down through just to wheels. Things move on and things have to change, but there will always be those who want to resist change.

[Zippee]

Originally Posted by teaston

And you sound like the septics whining about manual transmissions being phased out!

I can understand the attraction of rear wheel drive back in the old days when cars had less power, but now the big engine cars have far too much power and torque to reliably put down through just to wheels. Things move on and things have to change, but there will always be those who want to resist change.

Thats not strictly true. xDrive in its current form is not the ideal way forward for a performance machine. It just isnt clever enough.

I would love the M5 system in the M4CP but would prefer RWD to xDrive in it for sure.

[Savageenterprise]

Originally Posted by Ajs_435d

Xdrive is completely useless don't know why anyone would want it /why more manufacturers are moving to it. Of course there is a difference between 4wd and all wheel drive.

I suppose if I didn't have I'd try and justify to myself why it's not useful and why rwd and good tyres is all I need mainly not including driving pleasure.

I live in the North Eastern US. We get tremendous amounts of snow. I don’t want to be in a position where I can’t use my car because there’s a foot of snow on the ground. Idc if you have snow tires or not you’re not moving your RWD BMW in that.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by teaston

And you sound like the septics whining about manual transmissions being phased out!

I can understand the attraction of rear wheel drive back in the old days when cars had less power, but now the big engine cars have far too much power and torque to reliably put down through just to wheels. Things move on and things have to change, but there will always be those who want to resist change.

Sorry Tim, you're totally mixing up your personal preference, which is perfectly rational and understandable, but utterly subjective with technically superior, which suggests objectivity, and is meaningless without an agreed point of comparison.

Formula One cars still only drive the one axle, and apparently it's the cutting edge of motorsport!

The best versions of AWD sports cars have been the 2WD variants - R8 RWS and Huracan RWD for example also.

I suspect that with pure electric vehicles then all wheel drive with instantaneous torque vectoring will be absolutely the best solution, but for an internal combustion engine, there is a lot of extra stuff required that does have downsides.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Sorry Tim, you're totally mixing up your personal preference, which is perfectly rational and understandable, but utterly subjective with technically superior, which suggests objectivity, and is meaningless without an agreed point of comparison.

Formula One cars still only drive the one axle, and apparently it's the cutting edge of motorsport!

The best versions of AWD sports cars have been the 2WD variants - R8 RWS and Huracan RWD for example also.

I suspect that with pure electric vehicles then all wheel drive with instantaneous torque vectoring will be absolutely the best solution, but for an internal combustion engine, there is a lot of extra stuff required that does have downsides.

I'm sure they are great in the dry, but a road car has to work in all conditions, which rwd just doesn't.

On the contrary it's not my opinion that prefers AWD, AWD is better, it's those who prefer RWD that is just their opinion. Just the same as the septics saying they prefer MT, which they may well do but 8AT is better. Or those that still have a Nokia phone because the battery lasts 4 days, but it doesn't change the fact that an iPhone is a better phone.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by teaston

And you sound like the septics whining about manual transmissions being phased out!

I can understand the attraction of rear wheel drive back in the old days when cars had less power, but now the big engine cars have far too much power and torque to reliably put down through just to wheels. Things move on and things have to change, but there will always be those who want to resist change.

Originally Posted by teaston

I can understand the attraction of rear wheel drive back in the old days when cars had less power, but now the big engine cars have far too much power and torque to reliably put down through just to wheels. Things move on and things have to change, but there will always be those who want to resist change.

It's completely untrue to suggest that the big engine cars can not reliably put down power through two wheels. You'd have to drive like an utter moron to run into genuine traction problems with my 40i.

Had there been a 4wd option for the 440i, I genuinely don't know if I would have taken it. But I do know where the drawbacks and benefits would have been.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

It's completely untrue to suggest that the big engine cars can not reliably put down power through two wheels. You'd have to drive like an utter moron to run into genuine traction problems with my 40i.

Had there been a 4wd option for the 440i, I genuinely don't know if I would have taken it. But I do know where the drawbacks and benefits would have been.

I'm sure it's fine in the dry but in the wet my 330d Sdrive was terrible! It hugely limited my ability to pull out of junctions or overtake cars from low-speed in the wet, not to mention ruining traffic light Grand Prix ability! It's no wonder BMW made the F30 335d Xdrive only.

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

It's completely untrue to suggest that the big engine cars can not reliably put down power through two wheels. You'd have to drive like an utter moron to run into genuine traction problems with my 40i.

Had there been a 4wd option for the 440i, I genuinely don't know if I would have taken it. But I do know where the drawbacks and benefits would have been.

Exactly. And if conditions are not ideal, drive to the conditions. Only moron's drive at the same speed/style in all different weather conditions.

[aquazi]

As a daily drive i wouldnt consider anything except quattro/ xdrive now.

If i wanted a fun handling car.... wouldnt have got a diesel!!

Plenty of times last winter the xdrive got me out of predicaments that if i had an sdrive i would have been stranded.

And yes winter tyres are far supriorior... but having gone from the past of owning a Z4 and winter tyres... cant be bothered with that hassle anymore.

[1966-TR4]

Not sure I am going to bother with winters on my xDrive this year. Much as it was fun driving round my local area during the Beast from the East episode, there wasn't actually any point, beyond feeling smug. Couldn't go anywhere further because trunk roads were blocked. On other occasions, when snow was less heavy and lots of people were on the roads, I still couldn't get anywhere because other people were stuck and blocking the roads (especially M80 overnight). After 2 winters with the car it has become pretty clear that I am only going to be using it in conditions where I would have had no issues in previous years using a FWD car on good summer tyres.