[designatedposter]

Originally Posted by Phantom10R

yeah they just copied and pasted the same description for all the maps.. same rules still apply. you can't run e85 on the stage 2 multimap etc without a hpfp etc.. also you won't get stage 2+ numbers on the stage 2 maps or stage 1.. boost targets stay consistent between map series.. only timing changes based on e content. and as far as we know, there is no gains above whatever necessary e level to achieve full clean timing for your car on the 2+ map. basically once.you reach clean full timing any additional e won't help you and if thateans you have clean timing at e35 you won't see gains at 50 etc

Measured ethanol content has an impact to the torque request of tune. Torque is one of the blend factors.

If ptf did it conservatively, then using mm stg2+, then use the live adjust feature to change ethanol content to 20%, torque and thus boost, should be reduced as compared to if e30 was in tank. Keep e30 fuel in tank just in case during testing.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Phantom10R

yeah they just copied and pasted the same description for all the maps.. same rules still apply. you can't run e85 on the stage 2 multimap etc without a hpfp etc.. also you won't get stage 2+ numbers on the stage 2 maps or stage 1.. boost targets stay consistent between map series.. only timing changes based on e content. and as far as we know, there is no gains above whatever necessary e level to achieve full clean timing for your car on the 2+ map. basically once.you reach clean full timing any additional e won't help you and if thateans you have clean timing at e35 you won't see gains at 50 etc

This isnt true though (bolded part), as i think designatedposter above as alluding to. The logs showed that timing targets (and thus power/tq) are higher as you blend to higher E% on both the stage 2 and 2+ maps. So it is true that you cant get to 2+ numbers while running stage 2. But both maps benefit from higher E% in the form of more torque and more timing. So you do continue to see gains at higher E%.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

Measured ethanol content has an impact to the torque request of tune. Torque is one of the blend factors.

If ptf did it conservatively, then using mm stg2+, then use the live adjust feature to change ethanol content to 20%, torque and thus boost, should be reduced as compared to if e30 was in tank. Keep e30 fuel in tank just in case during testing.

For the second part, that's what we arent sure about, at least for the non M2 version. Someone would need to test running 93 on the stage 2+ map and see what the blend factors, timing, etc, are.

[designatedposter]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

For the second part, that's what we arent sure about, at least for the non M2 version. Someone would need to test running 93 on the stage 2+ map and see what the blend factors, timing, etc, are.

Yea my recommendation of using live adjust to e20 (with e30 in tank) is a step towards determine safety of using 93 Oct (e10) in tank with the mmstg2+ with flex fuel sensor!

[johnung]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

Yea my recommendation of using live adjust to e20 (with e30 in tank) is a step towards determine safety of using 93 Oct (e10) in tank with the mmstg2+ with flex fuel sensor!

I already have the question into BM3 tech support to see if they can add 93 Octane to the switchable tune list on the N55 EWG MultiMap Stage2+ FlexFuel tune. The M2 MMap Stage2+ already has it. Right now only have E30 and Racegas choices.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by johnung

I already have the question into BM3 tech support to see if they can add 93 Octane to the switchable tune list on the N55 EWG MultiMap Stage2+ FlexFuel tune. The M2 MMap Stage2+ already has it. Right now only have E30 and Racegas choices.

I doubt you can since the target boost will stay at 20psi and that's really been proven to be too much on 93. I mean I've seen custom tunes do it but they have literally no timing lol and end up being super slow and weird.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Phantom10R

I doubt you can since the target boost will stay at 20psi and that's really been proven to be too much on 93. I mean I've seen custom tunes do it but they have literally no timing lol and end up being super slow and weird.

That may be the case. But somehow Bootmod3 provided that feature with the M2 MultiMap Stage2+. So I'm curious to hear their response. I wouldn't care if it bumps it down to a MMapStage2 tune when I choose 93, as long as I can click to it with the steering wheel buttons instead of having to reflash.

Having my wife stuck at a gas station with an empty tank and not being able to just fill it with 93 is not conducive to my health and well-being. 😀

UPDATE: Bootmod3 tech support responded that they are adding this to their list for the next update of the N55 EWG MultiMap Stage2+.

That would mean that you could be driving the E30 tune (with FlexFuel hardware up to E85 in the tank) and if you fill up with 93 Octane, you'll be able to just use the steering wheel buttons to just click over to a 93 base tune within MultiMap Stage2+ rather than be forced to reflash down to MultiMap Stage2 at the gas station.

Note: This doesn't mean that they are developing a Stage2+ tune to try to squeeze more power out of 93 Octane. That's like trying to milk a dead cow. Guessing that it would be the same as MultiMap Stage2 93, but accessible from within the MultiMap Stage2+ menu choices so reflashing won't be necessary.

This is a huge deal in my state (NJ) and for traveling in surrounding states like PA, DE, MD where E85 pumps are scarce.

[insane11]

just installed their flexfuel kit and test out their stage 2+ multi map.. e30 map but i only had e20 in the tank.. i didnt get a chance to do a full log but boost was around 21psi..

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by insane11

just installed their flexfuel kit and test out their stage 2+ multi map.. e30 map but i only had e20 in the tank.. i didnt get a chance to do a full log but boost was around 21psi..

We dont think boost target lowers with lower ethanol content, but that's one thing we wanted to confirm. Need a full datalog including ethanol adjustment parameters though.

[insane11]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

We dont think boost target lowers with lower ethanol content, but that's one thing we wanted to confirm. Need a full datalog including ethanol adjustment parameters though.

here is a log of their stage 2h e30

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61ab...90c666e435a9f0

for some reason my max boost was just around boost was just around 14psi

when i flash their 2+ e30 i get around 21psi...

[NEWTRON]

Originally Posted by insane11

here is a log of their stage 2h e30

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61ab...90c666e435a9f0

for some reason my max boost was just around boost was just around 14psi

when i flash their 2+ e30 i get around 21psi...

That's because the 2H is an older map with a lower boost target, But even then it should target 17PSI. That's what I get when I run the 2H e30 map.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

We dont think boost target lowers with lower ethanol content, but that's one thing we wanted to confirm. Need a full datalog including ethanol adjustment parameters though.

I have E25 in the tank right now but I don't believe that I'm supposed to run the MMapSt2+ E30 tune with less than E30. So I wouldn't want to attempt a 4th gear WOT log.

I'm running MMapSt2 with it now. I can use the steering wheel buttons to switch between 91ACN, 91 and 93. I wonder if E25 logs would show anything different than my E30 and E50 logs for these three tunes?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by insane11

here is a log of their stage 2h e30

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61ab...90c666e435a9f0

for some reason my max boost was just around boost was just around 14psi

when i flash their 2+ e30 i get around 21psi...

Yeah 2H is an older map and pretty much obsolete now. Much lower boost target than 2+, and made for stock HPFP.

Originally Posted by johnung

I have E25 in the tank right now but I don't believe that I'm supposed to run the MMapSt2+ E30 tune with less than E30. So I wouldn't want to attempt a 4th gear WOT log.

I'm running MMapSt2 with it now. I can use the steering wheel buttons to switch between 91ACN, 91 and 93. I wonder if E25 logs would show anything different than my E30 and E50 logs for these three tunes?

You might get slightly different timing etc with E25 compared to E30 but probably barely different.

[insane11]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Yeah 2H is an older map and pretty much obsolete now. Much lower boost target than 2+, and made for stock HPFP.



You might get slightly different timing etc with E25 compared to E30 but probably barely different.

hey would you be kind enough to check out my log ?? i just got my flexfuel map from my tuner??

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61b2...0b4316549d6d8a

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by insane11

hey would you be kind enough to check out my log ?? i just got my flexfuel map from my tuner??

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61b2...0b4316549d6d8a

I took a quick look through and it looks generally OK. You didnt give any info so i assume you are running E25 and mods are in your signature... The boost target is pretty aggressive and you can't meet it in the upper RPM even with PS2 but that might be because it looks like you are at altitude.

[insane11]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I took a quick look through and it looks generally OK. You didnt give any info so i assume you are running E25 and mods are in your signature... The boost target is pretty aggressive and you can't meet it in the upper RPM even with PS2 but that might be because it looks like you are at altitude.

thank you for the input. i was trying to get to e30 but waws running at e27 according to the flex fuel sensor..

[johnung]

Originally Posted by insane11

thank you for the input. i was trying to get to e30 but waws running at e27 according to the flex fuel sensor..

I've had good luck using the phone app called e85Cal to get exactly the correct mix in my tank.
Tip: Don't pump in the E85 amount and then fill the tank with 93. The pumps all shut off at different times. I tell e85Cal that my tank holds like 15.5 gallons instead of 15.8. Then I pump in the exact number of E85 and 93 gallons that it tells me

[MadToy]

Blend factors won't scale below zero. Zero is the base map 91, 93, E30 etc. So running E20 on a 2+ tune will still target E30 timing, torque and fuel. It would be like running 91 on a 93 map - sort of.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by MadToy

Blend factors won't scale below zero. Zero is the base map 91, 93, E30 etc. So running E20 on a 2+ tune will still target E30 timing, torque and fuel. It would be like running 91 on a 93 map - sort of.

Well unless you have a M2 with 93 available in the 2+ map. So for those without that option currently, you wont want to go below E30 with the 2+ map.

[MadToy]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Well unless you have a M2 with 93 available in the 2+ map. So for those without that option currently, you wont want to go below E30 with the 2+ map.

Weird that they would do that for the M2 and not the 335. Seems like an oversight of some sort.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by MadToy

Weird that they would do that for the M2 and not the 335. Seems like an oversight of some sort.

Yup, at least they seemed to agree to do it when Johnung requested.

Also, one other thing ill mention is that it looked like blend factors were already maxed at 1 when he was running E78. So, i don't think they scale all the way up to 85% ethanol. At E50 they were at like 0.7.

[MadToy]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Yup, at least they seemed to agree to do it when Johnung requested.

Also, one other thing ill mention is that it looked like blend factors were already maxed at 1 when he was running E78. So, i don't think they scale all the way up to 85% ethanol. At E50 they were at like 0.7.

Yes - by default in the editor, they max the blend at E70. They probably keep those same defaults in the OTS maps. This is on all 3 blend tables - Fuel, Ignition and Timing.