11-07-2021, 12:19 PM | #1 |
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Does Upgraded FMIC Now Need To Be Upgraded?
Hoping some IAT guys will will take a look at my logs below and provide their opinions on whether the current upgraded FMIC is cooling adequately or if it's being overwhelmed? I'm not intending to upgrade the turbo. I don't want to spend money on a larger FMIC with potentially more turbo lag if the current FMIC is doing the cooling job right now. Any analysis/ opinions are appreciated. Thanks!
N55 EWG with stock turbo BootMod3 FlexFuel MultiMap tune with E50 fuel in the tank. WOT logs taken from 1st->4th gears https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6186...90c6283fe0a8e4 https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6186...729b69de5fb411 https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6186...90c6283fe0a8f0 |
11-07-2021, 12:28 PM | #2 |
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Ambient temps? No matter how you slice it, that IAT control is not good +10F in 3rd gear, +14F in 4th gear.
It’s terrible and the only way this is serviceable will be in lower ambient temps (probably 50s or low 60s where you are) Once it’s around 70s or 80s, this IC will be useless. |
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11-07-2021, 12:41 PM | #3 | |
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11-07-2021, 01:16 PM | #4 |
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Heat soak? I haven’t seen anyone really mention that on this platform. I’ve seen in mentioned on the E series, but that was issues with frontal area airflow.
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11-07-2021, 01:35 PM | #5 | |
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I'm curious what the actual IAT temperature is that begins that process. Before I upgraded my FMIC I could get the engine to begin heat soaking especially on a hot summer day by running multiple WOT runs in rapid succession with little recovery time. On subsequent runs the engine would get noticeably sluggish. I wish I had collected logs at the time to have an accurate numerical description. |
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11-07-2021, 01:40 PM | #6 | |
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You log shows basically 77F to 107F in the 1-4 gear pull. So 30F rise. If its 100 degrees outside to begin with you are probably going to be over 140F IATs from one multi gear pull like that. So yeah, i would say IC is undersized. |
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11-07-2021, 03:16 PM | #7 | |
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11-07-2021, 03:18 PM | #8 | |
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11-07-2021, 03:31 PM | #9 |
Check out my Youtube @n55david!
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yes, time to upgrade!
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11-07-2021, 05:03 PM | #10 |
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From my logs timing starts getting pulled with IATs @ 105-110F with 93 octane, ~145F with E50.
Those high IATs are what made me switch from the Evo2 to the Evo3. Even if timing isn’t getting pulled with a high ethanol mix, you’re just pumping hot air into the engine which will push your coolant & oil temps high. But, your rise in each gear is really highlighting the issue. If I do a single gear pull my IATs are 10-12F above ambient with a cooled off IC. If it’s a hot day and I do back to back multigear pulls with hard braking in between, I max out at ~25F above ambient. Not too bad I reckon since I’m probably pushing ~550 engine hp. |
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11-07-2021, 05:35 PM | #11 | |
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So the higher ethanol content in the fuel drives the start of Heat Soak timing adjustments upward by 35F-40F? I would not have guessed that. I recall that the EVO3 is much larger than the EVO2. (I have an EVO1 now) With the larger FMIC volume, did you notice an increase in turbo lag? |
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11-07-2021, 05:55 PM | #12 | |
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No lag at all. In fact response got better, and is backed up Wagner’s pressure drop charts comparing the Evo2 & Evo3. The Evo3 trades density for frontal area and volume to keep low to no lag while keeping IATs in check. Their larger custom inlet/outlet diameters and piping also helps. Altho, if you’re not doing summer track days, I think you’re probably fine with something like the do88 IC. Just stay away from the Evo2. |
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11-07-2021, 06:02 PM | #13 | ||
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I just read the specs on the Wagner EVO3 and it says that it isn't compatible with my XDrive model. I have an absolute hatred for turbo lag so I want to make sure I handle IATs from the horsepower increase without introducing lag. |
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11-07-2021, 07:04 PM | #14 |
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Just do the VRSF competition if you’re open to VRSF. It’s ridiculous inexpensive for what it is, and will outcool anything in that size range, including the DO88. Which is otherwise a good option.
For what it’s worth, you’re likely not going to get lag on a race core on your set up. I have a VRSF Race sitting here, and the internal core is less dense then the external, and I believe @thejeremyman9 can confirm is the same density as their 5” core. That means in terms of airflow, the Race core just offers more volume, which obviously needed on cars running more boost than stock. It’s an inch and a half thicker and about 3” taller than a standard 5” core. So if anything, the added volume is actually decreasing restriction. I’m also not convinced it’s too big for a 3 liter 400whp 6cyl engine - maybe on a 328i it would be an issue. This may explain why the larger Evo 3 has less pressure drop than the Evo 2, and the Evo 2 less pressure drop than stock. And I’m pretty sure the Evo 3 is the larger internal volume of any IC on this platform These cars are likely starving for more flow |
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11-07-2021, 07:24 PM | #15 |
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The Wagner Evo 2 is just not a good intercooler. People like it because if it’s light weight, has a good name, and has better cooling than stock.
The truth is that it’s literally amalgamation of all the worst IC features in one package. It’s got great throttle response because the internal core has less surface area, so you would think there is less restriction. Honestly, this ‘benefit’ amounts to 1whp on a FBO car over another IC, and absolutely terrible heat transfer. It won’t be able to cut heat down as fast as other intercoolers, and that ‘great throttle response’ is available on basically every other intercooler with 2 exceptions maybe. Then it’s light weight (which is only 3-7lbs compared to other cores) means that it has less thermal capacity and will overheat quicker. So with all of this you have an intercooler that gets hot fast, and can’t shed heat fast enough. Did I mention it was expensive too? |
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11-07-2021, 07:30 PM | #16 |
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I went from the VRSF 5'' to the VRSF race. They lowered their race price to compete with the other new race ICs on the market. Frankly its incredible value for what you get...
Here's a 0-150 mph pull with the race. IATs end where they started... That's basically 22 seconds of WOT https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/d...0&data=4-10-17 |
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11-07-2021, 07:33 PM | #17 |
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how about CSF FMIC? good FMIC?
If i get a big FMIC like VRSF competition (not performance) but with only stock turbo and bm3 stage 2 along with charge pipe changed and downpipe changed, would i still get turbo lag? |
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11-07-2021, 07:42 PM | #18 | |
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I think you’re pushing ~400whp? Any idea what ambient was that day? |
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11-07-2021, 07:55 PM | #19 |
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Honestly can't feel any when driving in sport, and I have a PWG. But it's definitely there in comfort.
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11-07-2021, 07:57 PM | #20 | |
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The CSF is 26lbs and the VRSF is 27lbs The CSF has 15-16 fins per in on the exterior core the VRSF is 18 fin per inch The CSF is $600 and the VRSF $420 Both should fit with no issues You will not get turbo lag with the VRSF, as confirmed by many members here including LYTSOUT https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1752195 VRSF’s qc can leave some to be be desired, but the performance does not. |
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11-07-2021, 08:00 PM | #21 |
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11-07-2021, 08:07 PM | #22 |
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No, with mhd the option to flash "linear throttle" is not enabled. It should be same as stock
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