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      12-09-2019, 04:47 PM   #2597
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Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
I've been hearing that joke from my dad since the early 70's
Same here. I've filed that under "Urban Legends."
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      12-09-2019, 07:08 PM   #2598
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Originally Posted by pennsiveguy View Post
I'm way OT here, but tire manufacturers have corrupted the "All Season" category name to the point where it's nearly meaningless. The category came about in the early radial tire era, when folks wanted something midway between a highway tire and a "snow tire" that had big lugs, was noisy as hell, and sucked everywhere except in snow. The early ones were fairly aggressive and pretty effective in snow and sand/light rocks. Nowadays, I think the design priorities are fuel economy and quiet, which are closely connected, and soft-surface performance has been sacrificed as a result. They meet the void ratio requirements for an all-season rating, but they're not effective on anything but a hard surface.
It's a marketing lie at this point. People need to recognize the limitations of all-seasons for what they are: dry and wet tires. "All" does not mean "all" and fuel economy really has hurt the OE A/S. Pair them with some chains or cables and you have a versatile setup that doesn't excel at one thing, but is passable in many. It's a compromise for sure and a lack of understanding is disastrous.

On that subject, autopilot suffers in the same way. People think it's going to drive for you, and to an extent it will, but it will never be better than an attentive driver with good situational awareness and the right knowledge.
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      12-10-2019, 07:05 AM   #2599
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Tesla driver distracted by dog in car blames Autopilot after smashing into police

https://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/n...ng-into-police

A Tesla Model 3 driver was checking on his dog in the back seat when his car, on Autopilot mode, smashed into two parked cars, according to a police report out of Connecticut.

The incident happened on the state’s I-95 highway early morning Saturday, December 7.

According to a post by the Connecticut State Police department, one of the vehicles the Tesla struck was a police car pulled over to the side of the road, assisting a separate vehicle accident.

Both of the patrol cars assisting with the other accident had their lights flashing, and a flare was set up, so it should have been pretty easy for somebody to see them. Unless, of course, you’re relying on your car to drive itself while you’re turned around checking on your dog in the back seat, which is exactly what happened.

The driver of the Model 3 was issued a misdemeanor summons for Reckless Driving and Reckless Endangerment, but luckily nobody – nor any animal – was seriously injured in the accident.

The CSP issued a warning to remind motorists that “although a number of vehicles have some automated capabilities, there are no vehicles currently on sale that are fully automated or self-driving.”

Tesla has not commented on the incident, and the investigation has not revealed whether or not the Model 3’s brakes were applied prior to the collision, by either the driver or Autopilot.
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      12-10-2019, 09:06 AM   #2600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennsiveguy View Post
Winter tires are mandatory in Finland, as are annual inspections for the whole vehicle. Purely by coincidence, it's where Nokian tires is headquartered. No connection at all.
Good point but we have way more that 1000 people, unlike Finland. J/K. Seriously, you guys are lucky. And loyal to Nokian. what if I told you that the biggest killer on our roads is the proliferation of fake Chinese winter tyres? No one homologates them in Canada, it is left to the manufacturer. Nokian, Michelin, Conti Yoko, Toyo are proven, race tested well developed brands. Chinese makers, however, do some treat pattern and the rubbers are useless even between -50 up to 6C, skidding or sliding! THAT BAD! In turn, many in some provinces where permitted mount studs- which rip roads apart, our highways. So 150$ CAD Chinese tires, with a flake, uncertified, and studs to compensate.

I presently drive hakka r2, no studs, they are amazing. Perhaps Alpin PA$ is better for my car. But even on black ice, all conditions, they are superb as los as -40C... You are so lucky that, via national or EU regulations, you life is not endangered by fellow Finns that would buy cheap Chinese tires. Here, they not dominate, 80% of sold winter tires are chinese, 200$ per set. failing every independent test, vs 800-1000$ Hakka set.

Our accidents have gone up through the roof in winter. Thanks to ABS and frame tech, less deaths but more vehicle losses. Insurance UP UP UP..

There is a brewing movement to force regulators force actual certification. We will see..
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      12-10-2019, 09:11 AM   #2601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
https://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/n...ng-into-police

A Tesla Model 3 driver was checking on his dog in the back seat when his car, on Autopilot mode, smashed into two parked cars, according to a police report out of Connecticut.
.
April 2019 the study on the AP being fooled by colours, stickers or lights, nice article entitles "You can fool tesla's autopilot"... by Stef Schrader, tesla answered that the testing is not cogent as it altered the environment around the vehicle to trigger errors. Imagine the FAA found a scenario in which planes crash, and Boeing answers "That is not real world, the regulators altered the environment around the plane." That is the point of simulating all sorts of unique situations, to determine risk and probability for the unlikely scenarios... Or, billboards, recent crash sties cruiser lights, new concrete lane reductions, all have proven to fool the AP occasionally, but proactive drivers compensated, some cases, last second. I can recall three concrete reducers that cause multiple collisions in Quebec. Even daylight, the concrete color, e.g. Hwy 15 laval, blends nearly perfectly wintertime with the asphalt, and, over 300 m, just yanks a lane. Almost hit it myself at dusk actively looking. A motorcyclist narrowly died another time, doing 140 and suddenly having no lane and cars on his right (my hitting the brakes gave him enough gap to get back). Can AP be fooled? It is empirically proven yes. BUT, according to tesla, this is not real world conditions. They are stupidly anti-scientific and anti-methodology as it gets.
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      12-10-2019, 09:46 AM   #2602
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Originally Posted by Musashi View Post
Good point but we have way more that 1000 people, unlike Finland. J/K. Seriously, you guys are lucky. And loyal to Nokian. what if I told you that the biggest killer on our roads is the proliferation of fake Chinese winter tyres? No one homologates them in Canada, it is left to the manufacturer. Nokian, Michelin, Conti Yoko, Toyo are proven, race tested well developed brands. Chinese makers, however, do some treat pattern and the rubbers are useless even between -50 up to 6C, skidding or sliding! THAT BAD! In turn, many in some provinces where permitted mount studs- which rip roads apart, our highways. So 150$ CAD Chinese tires, with a flake, uncertified, and studs to compensate.

I presently drive hakka r2, no studs, they are amazing. Perhaps Alpin PA$ is better for my car. But even on black ice, all conditions, they are superb as los as -40C... You are so lucky that, via national or EU regulations, you life is not endangered by fellow Finns that would buy cheap Chinese tires. Here, they not dominate, 80% of sold winter tires are chinese, 200$ per set. failing every independent test, vs 800-1000$ Hakka set.

Our accidents have gone up through the roof in winter. Thanks to ABS and frame tech, less deaths but more vehicle losses. Insurance UP UP UP..

There is a brewing movement to force regulators force actual certification. We will see..
I don't live in Finland, BTW. I used to visit there often on business, and got a chance to see Nokian's test facility in Lapland.
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      12-10-2019, 09:49 AM   #2603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
https://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/n...ng-into-police

A Tesla Model 3 driver was checking on his dog in the back seat when his car, on Autopilot mode, smashed into two parked cars, according to a police report out of Connecticut.

The incident happened on the state’s I-95 highway early morning Saturday, December 7.

According to a post by the Connecticut State Police department, one of the vehicles the Tesla struck was a police car pulled over to the side of the road, assisting a separate vehicle accident.

Both of the patrol cars assisting with the other accident had their lights flashing, and a flare was set up, so it should have been pretty easy for somebody to see them. Unless, of course, you’re relying on your car to drive itself while you’re turned around checking on your dog in the back seat, which is exactly what happened.

The driver of the Model 3 was issued a misdemeanor summons for Reckless Driving and Reckless Endangerment, but luckily nobody – nor any animal – was seriously injured in the accident.

The CSP issued a warning to remind motorists that “although a number of vehicles have some automated capabilities, there are no vehicles currently on sale that are fully automated or self-driving.”

Tesla has not commented on the incident, and the investigation has not revealed whether or not the Model 3’s brakes were applied prior to the collision, by either the driver or Autopilot.
In a bygone era without airbags, the pilot would have got a pitch-black bilateral shiner and a bent nose and some teeth that didn't match. Every time he shaved or brushed his teeth, his fucked-up face would have reminded him to fucking pay attention when you drive.
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      12-10-2019, 10:38 AM   #2604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
https://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/n...ng-into-police

A Tesla Model 3 driver was checking on his dog in the back seat when his car, on Autopilot mode, smashed into two parked cars, according to a police report out of Connecticut.

The incident happened on the state’s I-95 highway early morning Saturday, December 7.

According to a post by the Connecticut State Police department, one of the vehicles the Tesla struck was a police car pulled over to the side of the road, assisting a separate vehicle accident.

Both of the patrol cars assisting with the other accident had their lights flashing, and a flare was set up, so it should have been pretty easy for somebody to see them. Unless, of course, you’re relying on your car to drive itself while you’re turned around checking on your dog in the back seat, which is exactly what happened.

The driver of the Model 3 was issued a misdemeanor summons for Reckless Driving and Reckless Endangerment, but luckily nobody – nor any animal – was seriously injured in the accident.

The CSP issued a warning to remind motorists that “although a number of vehicles have some automated capabilities, there are no vehicles currently on sale that are fully automated or self-driving.”

Tesla has not commented on the incident, and the investigation has not revealed whether or not the Model 3’s brakes were applied prior to the collision, by either the driver or Autopilot.
As much as I think Tesla's auto-pilot is a false advertising dangerous nightmare, that is CT. I've driven down I-95 and have seen people eating yogurt with both hands while balancing an ipad on the steering wheel doing 85 mph.
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      12-10-2019, 10:38 AM   #2605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
https://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/n...ng-into-police

A Tesla Model 3 driver was checking on his dog in the back seat when his car, on Autopilot mode, smashed into two parked cars, according to a police report out of Connecticut.

The incident happened on the state's I-95 highway early morning Saturday, December 7.

According to a post by the Connecticut State Police department, one of the vehicles the Tesla struck was a police car pulled over to the side of the road, assisting a separate vehicle accident.

Both of the patrol cars assisting with the other accident had their lights flashing, and a flare was set up, so it should have been pretty easy for somebody to see them. Unless, of course, you're relying on your car to drive itself while you're turned around checking on your dog in the back seat, which is exactly what happened.

The driver of the Model 3 was issued a misdemeanor summons for Reckless Driving and Reckless Endangerment, but luckily nobody – nor any animal – was seriously injured in the accident.

The CSP issued a warning to remind motorists that "although a number of vehicles have some automated capabilities, there are no vehicles currently on sale that are fully automated or self-driving."

Tesla has not commented on the incident, and the investigation has not revealed whether or not the Model 3's brakes were applied prior to the collision, by either the driver or Autopilot.
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      12-10-2019, 03:28 PM   #2606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
To me this is no different than car manufacturers commercials about AWD equipped vehicles etc. Subaru being the worst offender here. The amount times I've heard someone say "I'm fine, I have AWD."
its a little different saying "the car will drive for you and you dont have to really pay attention" vs "its got awd so it has great traction in all weather"
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      12-10-2019, 03:38 PM   #2607
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Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
its a little different saying "the car will drive for you and you dont have to really pay attention" vs "its got awd so it has great traction in all weather"
Where are they saying you don’t have to pay attention? What do you think is a bigger problem? People thinking they are invincible driving AWD/4X4s or people not paying attention while in their self driving Tesla’s?

Dangerous false advertising is just that, dangerous false advertising.
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      12-11-2019, 06:41 PM   #2608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Yep, holiday charging isn't very fun, looks like the east coast didn't have it as bad since a lot more model 3's reside out west.
The more likely reason is: in the east cost drives tend to be shorter and mostly in suburban areas (you can cross 3 states with one charge on a model S). You charge overnight at home and that's likely enough to get you where you need to go. If not, you pull over at one of many chargers.
In CA, to drive from SF to LA, you most likely have to recharge it at least once in between. Not to mention the long stretches of mountain passes that you go through. Everybody pulls over at the same charge station.

Last edited by MPBK; 12-12-2019 at 02:07 PM..
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      12-13-2019, 06:21 AM   #2609
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The more likely reason is: in the east cost drives tend to be shorter and mostly in suburban areas (you can cross 3 states with one charge on a model S). You charge overnight at home and that's likely enough to get you where you need to go. If not, you pull over at one of many chargers.
In CA, to drive from SF to LA, you most likely have to recharge it at least once in between. Not to mention the long stretches of mountain passes that you go through. Everybody pulls over at the same charge station.
There is a lot of travel between North Carolina and Massachusetts on the East Coast during the holidays. You can easily drive 300 miles across the states of Virginia, Pennsylvania, New York, North Carolina.
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      12-13-2019, 10:57 AM   #2610
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
There is a lot of travel between North Carolina and Massachusetts on the East Coast during the holidays. You can easily drive 300 miles across the states of Virginia, Pennsylvania, New York, North Carolina.
The point is... from MA to NC you'll pass by NY, PA, WA, and many many major big cities. There are tons of chargers in the route. From SF to LA, there is only a couple, and the one at Kettleman City is a major stop point (in the middle of nowhere) for most everyone doing that route. That was the reason for the 1/2 mile long line.
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      12-13-2019, 11:59 AM   #2611
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The point is... from MA to NC you'll pass by NY, PA, WA, and many many major big cities. There are tons of chargers in the route. From SF to LA, there is only a couple, and the one at Kettleman City is a major stop point (in the middle of nowhere) for most everyone doing that route. That was the reason for the 1/2 mile long line.
Then sounds like Tesla short changed its own state. But really you said East Coasters don't drive the long distances as Cali folks due, which I disagree. A lot of illegal narcotics run up Route 95 from Florida.
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      12-13-2019, 12:43 PM   #2612
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Funny story. Back in August, my son bought a model 3, and worked at a place (book of faces) that had charging stations for employees. He lives in an apartment in North Seattle without ability to charge at home. He just got a new job, started this week. His first day there, he had to charge on the way home. He called me as he was driving home, and looking for a charging station. He had passed 2 already, but all spots were taken and people were waiting, so he kept driving. He got to the third station along his route, and it was full also, but nobody else waiting, so he pulled in. As we were wrapping up our call, I asked him how many gas stations he passed along the way. He hung up.
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      12-13-2019, 12:49 PM   #2613
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Originally Posted by hubbahubba View Post
Funny story. Back in August, my son bought a model 3, and worked at a place (book of faces) that had charging stations for employees. He lives in an apartment in North Seattle without ability to charge at home. He just got a new job, started this week. His first day there, he had to charge on the way home. He called me as he was driving home, and looking for a charging station. He had passed 2 already, but all spots were taken and people were waiting, so he kept driving. He got to the third station along his route, and it was full also, but nobody else waiting, so he pulled in. As we were wrapping up our call, I asked him how many gas stations he passed along the way. He hung up.
Stupid overpriced golf carts for people that clearly don't value their own time or money, both valuable commodities.
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      12-13-2019, 12:55 PM   #2614
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Stupid overpriced golf carts for people that clearly don't value their own time or money, both valuable commodities.
I tried to tell him....
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      12-13-2019, 01:25 PM   #2615
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I tried to tell him....
Take no offense, it's your kid, but he sounds like a Millennial that took the bait that driving an electric car will save the planet?
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      12-13-2019, 01:40 PM   #2616
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Take no offense, it's your kid, but he sounds like a Millennial that took the bait that driving an electric car will save the planet?
None taken. Mostly, he loved how it drove and looked, which I can respect even though I disagree. He is very self sufficient and has been for a long time. His world, his choice. For the most part, the kid (28) has his head on pretty damn straight and knows what's up. He is planning his exit strategy on the car already just because of the charging nonsense that I wrote about above. He is coming to visit next spring, and I think once he hears the rumble of my car and feels it smack his head against the headrest, he will be visiting his local BMW dealer....
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      12-13-2019, 01:49 PM   #2617
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None taken. Mostly, he loved how it drove and looked, which I can respect even though I disagree. He is very self sufficient and has been for a long time. His world, his choice. For the most part, the kid (28) has his head on pretty damn straight and knows what's up. He is planning his exit strategy on the car already just because of the charging nonsense that I wrote about above. He is coming to visit next spring, and I think once he hears the rumble of my car and feels it smack his head against the headrest, he will be visiting his local BMW dealer....
I can respect that too. I'm not a fan of the front, but the aftermarket is solving that. EV has a limited audience, mostly single-home dewellers that can gas-up, er, refuel at home. I'm on E90 Post 4 years ago at least stating wait lines at Superchargers would be problematic. Can't he get a DC fast charger conversion plug?
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      12-13-2019, 02:08 PM   #2618
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I can respect that too. I'm not a fan of the front, but the aftermarket is solving that. EV has a limited audience, mostly single-home dewellers that can gas-up, er, refuel at home. I'm on E90 Post 4 years ago at least stating wait lines at Superchargers would be problematic. Can't he get a DC fast charger conversion plug?
I have no idea, not in my wheelhouse... If it is out there, and made for a Tesla, he probably knows about it. He is a pretty tech savvy fella. I will mention it to him, thanks!
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