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      01-23-2019, 01:46 PM   #1277
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https://electrek.co/2019/01/23/tsla-...critical-time/

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/23/tesl...roduction.html

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/18/busin...usk/index.html

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      01-28-2019, 07:28 PM   #1278
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      01-28-2019, 08:54 PM   #1279
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I wanted a Model S so bad when they first came out. Even more after the face lift.

Then I joined a Tesla Facebook group. My god. The attitudes and snark on there, even to other Tesla owners, was amazing. Every single person thought they were God's own gift to man, and their decision to buy an EV was proof positive of that. Then all the issues with crappy build quality, breakdowns, etc.... And it all gets excused! "Well, that's just the price of being an early adopter. We're so cool that we're early enough that our cars have these problems. Crap quality and unreliability are features of early ownership - we should be proud to experience it." The cognitive dissonance is incredible.

Bull. If I'm spending $90k on a car it damn well better work or have a robust service/loaner program to back it up.

TL;DR I bought an M550 instead.
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      01-29-2019, 07:42 PM   #1280
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      01-30-2019, 02:08 PM   #1281
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One thing that I have learned is that Tesla is willing and able to recover through quick thinking and fast action. A relatively simple lineup tweak and partial confidence is restored. Musk knows what to do when things are stacked against him. This is something I didn't fully believe last time the stocks took a fall. That's tenacity, and that's what's going to keep this company around, despite all the setbacks. I believe it, but then again, believing isn't fact is it? Will Tesla be around in 10 years? I know they will be as much as some people don't think they will be, which is to say, no one really knows until it happens. All this cynicism is kind of pointless unless you have a stake in it. Otherwise it's just silly games we play when we feel disenfranchised. There's much more worthwhile things to worry about.
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      01-30-2019, 02:16 PM   #1282
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One thing that I have learned is that Tesla is willing and able to recover through quick thinking and fast action. A relatively simple lineup tweak and partial confidence is restored. Musk knows what to do when things are stacked against him. This is something I didn't fully believe last time the stocks took a fall. That's tenacity, and that's what's going to keep this company around, despite all the setbacks. I believe it, but then again, believing isn't fact is it? Will Tesla be around in 10 years? I know they will be as much as some people don't think they will be, which is to say, no one really knows until it happens. All this cynicism is kind of pointless unless you have a stake in it. Otherwise it's just silly games we play when we feel disenfranchised. There's much more worthwhile things to worry about.
One thing I am sure of: The technology will still be around in 10 years. Tesla may ultimately flame out but the EV technology they have developed will live for generations. EV haters can pray for the death of Tesla but it wont kill off the idea. EVs are here to stay and they are only going to continue to get better.
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      01-30-2019, 02:53 PM   #1283
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One thing I am sure of: The technology will still be around in 10 years. Tesla may ultimately flame out but the EV technology they have developed will live for generations. EV haters can pray for the death of Tesla but it wont kill off the idea. EVs are here to stay and they are only going to continue to get better.
Excellent point. I don't quite understand where all the EV hate comes from. Maybe people just fear change. Maybe they fear their jobs/investments in oil are threatened. That's just a failure to adapt and they only have to blame themselves. Adapt or die. Isn't that how it works?
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      01-30-2019, 03:03 PM   #1284
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Excellent point. I don't quite understand where all the EV hate comes from. Maybe people just fear change. Maybe they fear their jobs/investments in oil are threatened. That's just a failure to adapt and they only have to blame themselves. Adapt or die. Isn't that how it works?
I'll bet exactly 0% of the people on this forum that profess to hate EVs are in any way personally impacted by them. Don't like EVs? Fine, don't buy one. I hate Prius' so I wont buy one. But if someone else wants one it's no skin off my nose.

I'm as much a gasoline fueled gear head as anyone here. If it's got an ICE and burns fuel, count me in. I love it! But at the same time I love and appreciate my wife's Leaf for what it is. And sometimes rolling around in absolute silence on a trip to the grocery store is just the zen like experience I'm after. I look at it like I look at music. I always have and always will like hardcore punk. But it doesn't mean I cant appreciate and often listen to something else.
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      01-30-2019, 03:24 PM   #1285
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I don't quite understand where all the EV hate comes from.
It's not the tech or the idea of EV I dislike... It is Musk and Tesla itself.
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      01-30-2019, 04:06 PM   #1286
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It's not the tech or the idea of EV I dislike... It is Musk and Tesla itself.
This.
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      01-30-2019, 04:34 PM   #1287
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Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
One thing I am sure of: The technology will still be around in 10 years. Tesla may ultimately flame out but the EV technology they have developed will live for generations. EV haters can pray for the death of Tesla but it wont kill off the idea. EVs are here to stay and they are only going to continue to get better.
This. I think EVs are a good thing and will bee the future of automobiles. I seriously considered one for this purchase, then decided I wanted one last gas-guzzling ICE. But my wife is absolutely going to buy an EV the next time she needs a car.

EV technology is here to stay and I hope it grows and does well. But Tesla is not at all the be-all/end-all of EVs. My personal opinion is that as more auto makers make a meaningful entry to the EV space, Tesla's shortcomings will need to be addressed or else they won't survive. The market won't be as accommodating to all their issues when they are no longer the only major game in town.

All my personal opinion, of course. But I did collect a 900% return on TSLA before selling off all my shares a few years ago, and I also slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
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      01-30-2019, 04:48 PM   #1288
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It's not the tech or the idea of EV I dislike... It is Musk and Tesla itself.
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Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
This.
I've said this before—Tesla is (a) necessary "evil" simply because it pushes others to keep up or overtake them which is good for us, the consumer, and good for the industry.
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      01-30-2019, 04:51 PM   #1289
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I'll bet exactly 0% of the people on this forum that profess to hate EVs are in any way personally impacted by them. Don't like EVs? Fine, don't buy one. I hate Prius' so I wont buy one. But if someone else wants one it's no skin off my nose.

I'm as much a gasoline fueled gear head as anyone here. If it's got an ICE and burns fuel, count me in. I love it! But at the same time I love and appreciate my wife's Leaf for what it is. And sometimes rolling around in absolute silence on a trip to the grocery store is just the zen like experience I'm after. I look at it like I look at music. I always have and always will like hardcore punk. But it doesn't mean I cant appreciate and often listen to something else.
Agreed. I love my ICE M3. I love my wife's ICE SAV. I also love my i3. I hate Prius's simply because I think they are hideous and joyless. Teslas are at least aiming to be more than just a vanilla EV.
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      01-30-2019, 05:08 PM   #1290
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Agreed. I love my ICE M3. I love my wife's ICE SAV. I also love my i3. I hate Prius's simply because I think they are hideous and joyless. Teslas are at least aiming to be more than just a vanilla EV.
Yeah, my hatred for the Prius really just stems from my hatred of the type of person who pilots one. The car itself is rubbish, but there's plenty of rubbish cars out there. It really comes down to having personally been hit twice by Prius', my wife being hit by a Prius and the fact that most of the time I'm stuck behind someone doing 10 under it's a Prius.
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      01-30-2019, 05:29 PM   #1291
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The car itself is rubbish, but there's plenty of rubbish cars out there. It really comes down to having personally been hit twice by Prius', my wife being hit by a Prius and the fact that most of the time I'm stuck behind someone doing 10 under it's a Prius.
In that case I hate the Escalade the most. One rear ended my #33 of 250 25Quattro S4.
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      01-30-2019, 05:38 PM   #1292
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Yeah, my hatred for the Prius really just stems from my hatred of the type of person who pilots one. The car itself is rubbish, but there's plenty of rubbish cars out there. It really comes down to having personally been hit twice by Prius', my wife being hit by a Prius and the fact that most of the time I'm stuck behind someone doing 10 under it's a Prius.
I used to work as a valet at an upscale hotel.

Without fail:
The guy with a V12 Vanquish just hops out, grabs his ticket, and heads inside.
The worn out Corolla driver tells me to be careful and does a full walk around upon pickup.
The Prius pulls up, somehow hits the curb on a 30 ft wide driveway, and then the driver asks at least twice if I know how it works because it's a hybrid (at this point the Prius/Insight had been around for maybe 5 or 6 years). They then unload their own bags, a reusable grocery bag full of fruit, and their own pillow from home.

I loved that job but am so glad I left before Teslas started coming out.
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      01-30-2019, 05:58 PM   #1293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
One thing I am sure of: The technology will still be around in 10 years. Tesla may ultimately flame out but the EV technology they have developed will live for generations. EV haters can pray for the death of Tesla but it wont kill off the idea. EVs are here to stay and they are only going to continue to get better.
Excellent point. I don't quite understand where all the EV hate comes from. Maybe people just fear change. Maybe they fear their jobs/investments in oil are threatened. That's just a failure to adapt and they only have to blame themselves. Adapt or die. Isn't that how it works?
The hate is coming from a few different angles.

1)People don't like change
2)EVs are NOT environmentally friendly
3)Many still want ICE cars which as you know encompasses more then straight line speed (driving dynamics, engine note etc etc etc....)
4)People Hate PotHead Musk
5)People hate pretentious EV/Tesla drivers
6)Last but no least. Many DO NOT want to be forced into driving these "cars" in the future
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      01-30-2019, 06:05 PM   #1294
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
The hate is coming from a few different angles.

1)People don't like change
2)EVs are NOT environmentally friendly
3)Many still want ICE cars which as you know encompasses more then straight line speed (driving dynamics, engine note etc etc etc....)
4)People Hate PotHead Musk
5)People hate pretentious EV/Tesla drivers
6)Last but no least. Many DO NOT want to be forced into driving these "cars" in the future

I wouldn't disagree with any of that.
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      01-30-2019, 06:05 PM   #1295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
The car itself is rubbish, but there's plenty of rubbish cars out there. It really comes down to having personally been hit twice by Prius', my wife being hit by a Prius and the fact that most of the time I'm stuck behind someone doing 10 under it's a Prius.
In that case I hate the Escalade the most. One rear ended my #33 of 250 25Quattro S4.
I almost bought one of those. Had the V8 correct?
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      01-30-2019, 06:11 PM   #1296
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
The hate is coming from a few different angles.



1)People don't like change
That much is clear. The question is why? The answer is usually fear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
2)EVs are NOT environmentally friendly
Neither is the ICE. The fact that the power can come from more than one source makes it more flexible in how environmentally friendly the energy can be. Battery disposal and recycling is another admittedly big issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
3)Many still want ICE cars which as you know encompasses more then straight line speed (driving dynamics, engine note etc etc etc....)
Different tools for different jobs. I don't hate hammers because they can't do a screwdriver's job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
4)People Hate PotHead Musk
I hated Steve Jobs. I still bought apple stock and I still buy apple products. One has nothing to do with the other imho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
5)People hate pretentious EV/Tesla drivers
They aren't all like that, just like not all bimmer drives are d-bags.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
6)Last but no least. Many DO NOT want to be forced into driving these "cars" in the future
In all honesty most of us will be rotting corpses by the time the ICE is completely phased out. We're worried about some shit that has nothing to do with us and will outlive us. Maybe we fear death/insignificance/obsoleteness instead.
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      01-30-2019, 06:16 PM   #1297
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
The hate is coming from a few different angles.



1)People don't like change
2)EVs are NOT environmentally friendly
Neither is the ICE. The fact that the power can come from more than one source makes it more flexible in how environmentally friendly the energy can be. Battery disposal and recycling is another admittedly big issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
3)Many still want ICE cars which as you know encompasses more then straight line speed (driving dynamics, engine note etc etc etc....)
Different tools for different jobs. I don't hate hammers because they can't do a screwdriver's job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
4)People Hate PotHead Musk
I hated Steve Jobs. I still bought apple stock and I still buy apple products. One has nothing to do with the other imho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
5)People hate pretentious EV/Tesla drivers
They aren't all like that, just like not all bimmer drives are d-bags.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
6)Last but no least. Many DO NOT want to be forced into driving these "cars" in the future
In all honesty most of us will be rotting corpses by the time the ICE is completely phased out. We're worried about some shit that has nothing to do with us and will outlive us. Maybe we fear death/insignificance/obsoleteness instead.
Fair points.

The only thing I take issue with is that ICE cars don't pretend to be environmentally friendly. EVs do. It's Fake News
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      01-30-2019, 06:22 PM   #1298
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Fair points.

The only thing I take issue with is that ICE cars don't pretend to be environmentally friendly. EVs do. It's Fake News
It's hard to defend the EV when even pro-EV people aren't realistic about it. They think it will save the world and everyone will be loving brothers and sisters if we all drove EVs. Truth is, it's just another tool with some advantages and disadvantages alike. We can't ignore the disadvantages! It's not realistic and those who are against the EV will use that against them. I happen to think there are huge advantages to the EV, logistically alone!

But this goes for all those on both sides of any FAKE NEWS debate: if you can't be realistic and honest about your own point of view, you can't expect the other side to do so either.
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