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      07-20-2017, 11:56 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by tdott View Post
autopilot, Summon, ota updates, Smartphone connect....
Yeah, an Autopilot that states the driver should be paying attention at all times in case the Autopilot screws up... Nice. No thanks I'd prefer to rely on my driving skills rather than some computer and sensor suite. One dumbass already got decapitated.
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      07-20-2017, 01:53 PM   #178
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People thought Tesla would be gone before it even became this popular...
some times people make stupid threads and comments because they think small.

On top of that Tesla just got the go ahead to build a car-hyper loop from NYC-Washington...lol.. yeah, its dying...
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      07-20-2017, 07:14 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by tdott View Post
autopilot, Summon, ota updates, Smartphone connect....
Autopilot, don't ever want, summon, for the lazy and part of autopilot. Self parking and unpacking are out there already. Updates are for EVs. Ice doesn't need.smartphone connect, so, your console is your smartphone? If i wanted that I'd pop in a dynavin or similar. I don't want an iPad for a dash though for sure.
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      07-21-2017, 08:35 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Autopilot, don't ever want, summon, for the lazy and part of autopilot. Self parking and unpacking are out there already. Updates are for EVs. Ice doesn't need.smartphone connect, so, your console is your smartphone? If i wanted that I'd pop in a dynavin or similar. I don't want an iPad for a dash though for sure.
This is what you said before, nothing about tech YOU wanted.
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Who needs the tech, correct. I have bluetooth, voice command, satellite, ubs input, etc etc, I don't use any of it anyway. What use is more? Conversely, except for autodrive which screws up regularly and could be applied to ice cars if anyone cared, what tech does a tesla have that an accord doesn't?
You are also missing the point if your argument is that you can add it aftermarket. The smartphone app allows you to control this like charging, heat / cooling so that when you get it is at temp at a preset time in the morning. ICE car's don't need updates? Of course they do, plus updating the navi / infotainment and release new features via software is pretty awesome, traditional manufactures want you to believe it can't be done...

Take a look at all the improvements Telsa has made with OTA updates:
https://electrek.co/2017/03/20/tesla...tware-updates/
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      07-21-2017, 08:40 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Yeah, an Autopilot that states the driver should be paying attention at all times in case the Autopilot screws up... Nice. No thanks I'd prefer to rely on my driving skills rather than some computer and sensor suite. One dumbass already got decapitated.
One dumbass that wasn't paying attention or using it as intended, it saved alot of other dumbasses that couldn't react as quick as the system could. It's still safer than 99% of drivers on the road, it's a step in the right direction and it's like phase 1 of something that will only get better, I'd prefer driving beside a Telsa on Autopilot than some idiot on a smartphone. Of course i'd be in a fire breathing, gas guzzling V8 that I control myself. But for the idiots on the road, I prefer they be in an autonomous car.

That's what I don't think you guys get, no one is forcing you to drive one, the ICE ain't going away any time soon and probably not in our lifetime, but I prefer if all the idiots on the road were in autonomous driving cars looking at their idiot screens and I will zoom by them in my antique automobile that I have to control myself.

The world would be a better place...
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      07-21-2017, 10:14 AM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdott View Post
This is what you said before, nothing about tech YOU wanted.


You are also missing the point if your argument is that you can add it aftermarket. The smartphone app allows you to control this like charging, heat / cooling so that when you get it is at temp at a preset time in the morning. ICE car's don't need updates? Of course they do, plus updating the navi / infotainment and release new features via software is pretty awesome, traditional manufactures want you to believe it can't be done...

Take a look at all the improvements Telsa has made with OTA updates:
https://electrek.co/2017/03/20/tesla...tware-updates/
Theme heating and cooling is called autostart. You have had this for decades. Just set the auto climate control to the temp you want and autostart in the morning. What new infotainment is there? Switch locations on the screen for your controls? As for nav, I ordered mine without. I prefer waze which I do on my phone or dynavin. It's not that they can't do this stuff. They have been making money on the updates. The good news of tesla doing this is thst maybe they will have to also so tesla gets a credit for that.
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      07-21-2017, 11:02 AM   #183
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http://blog.ucsusa.org/peter-oconnor...-sales-numbers

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US electric vehicle (EV) sales are up 45% for the twelve-month period from July 2016 through June 2017, compared to the prior twelve-month period.
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What are people buying?
The Tesla Model S was the top seller both in June and year-to-date.
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      07-21-2017, 09:41 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdott View Post
One dumbass that wasn't paying attention or using it as intended, it saved alot of other dumbasses that couldn't react as quick as the system could. It's still safer than 99% of drivers on the road, it's a step in the right direction and it's like phase 1 of something that will only get better, I'd prefer driving beside a Telsa on Autopilot than some idiot on a smartphone. Of course i'd be in a fire breathing, gas guzzling V8 that I control myself. But for the idiots on the road, I prefer they be in an autonomous car.

That's what I don't think you guys get, no one is forcing you to drive one, the ICE ain't going away any time soon and probably not in our lifetime, but I prefer if all the idiots on the road were in autonomous driving cars looking at their idiot screens and I will zoom by them in my antique automobile that I have to control myself.

The world would be a better place...
And they think that of you. So the idea behind autonomous driving is to let people use their smart phones rather than driving. One dumbass does it (watching a movie) and gets decapitated because the system can't tell the difference between a overhead road sign and a tractor trailer. But go ahead feel safe. I'll be the one fucking with the semi-autonomous Teslas and making them crash...
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      07-21-2017, 09:42 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Wow. 0.8% Amazing.
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      07-22-2017, 04:18 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
And they think that of you. So the idea behind autonomous driving is to let people use their smart phones rather than driving. One dumbass does it (watching a movie) and gets decapitated because the system can't tell the difference between a overhead road sign and a tractor trailer. But go ahead feel safe. I'll be the one fucking with the semi-autonomous Teslas and making them crash...
I wouldn't but barreling across a highway about to jack knife infront of a Telsa. There was no stopping that crash.

Show me a Telsa that crashed into a car going the same direction beside or in front of it while on auto pilot. You can't.
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      07-23-2017, 02:10 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
There is no one on this Forum that loves manuals more than me.
I dunno about that.
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      07-23-2017, 06:31 AM   #188
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I dunno about that.
Agreed.
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      07-23-2017, 06:54 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Wow. 0.8% Amazing.
You're joking right?


A wise man looks at that statistic and thinks of what a massive growth story is about to be told
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      07-23-2017, 07:26 AM   #190
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I dunno about that.
Put up yer stats son...

I was 47 years old when I first vehicle I bought a vehicle with an automatic in 2009. It has an automatic ONLY because the manual transmission'd 5-cylinder version was no longer available by late 2009; they were all sold out. I have over 1 million driving miles all on a manual transmission. I drive 800 miles a week to work in my E90 6sp MT in what is known as some of the worst traffic on the East coast. Took my drivers license in a manual transmission'd Ford Pinto. Paid my way through college as a courier using a manual transmission'd Ford Escort. The 5 motorcycles I've owned... Even my tractor is manual trans.

My wife too, is a staunch MT'er. Her first BMW was a MT, her VW Bug ragtop before that was an MT, before that a MGB manual, her current Z3... yup manual. Probably would have not married her if she wasn't. Just sayin'.

Bring it
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      07-23-2017, 07:49 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdott View Post
I wouldn't but barreling across a highway about to jack knife infront of a Telsa. There was no stopping that crash.

Show me a Telsa that crashed into a car going the same direction beside or in front of it while on auto pilot. You can't.
Yeah, there was a way to stop that crash, not relying on Autopilot. Even Tesla admitted its Autopilot software caused the crash because it was programmed to not recognize overhead highway signs; the software thought the tractor trailer across the road was a highway sign. But Musk did explain that once the car realized the highway sign (the tractor trailer) was basically at ground level, it slammed on the brakes, but there wasn't enough distance for the Model S to stop...

The driver was not paying attention, watching a movie on a portable DVD player actually.

And excerpts from a Forbes article (Sept. 2016) the Tesla Autopilot crash in Germany where a Model S rear-ended a bus in front of it, Ooops...
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      07-23-2017, 10:17 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by seedyrom View Post
You're joking right?


A wise man looks at that statistic and thinks of what a massive growth story is about to be told
You need a superior product to change that, first and foremost economically. Right now, without subsidies, and gas at $2something, that's not working. The general.public needs a serious economic reason or advancement to change their buying habits. To get into the mainstream car market, i.e. inexpensive family sedans, you have to do better than what they have. Joe customer looks at a $20k bulletproof Camry, then looks at a $35k tesla, and buys the Camry. If Tesla had a $25k car, a little more to compensate for fuel consumption, and it didn't have the limitations of ev cars now, autopilot and remote updates don't offset range and refueling time on longer trips, they would be a contender. But for now, they are still only aimed at a much smaller target market, i.e. luxury sedan market, misguided environmentalists, and techno geeks.
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      07-23-2017, 11:19 AM   #193
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Man, you keep talking about range and long trips, when in the demographic of even the Model 3, people have the means to move closer to work or work remotely. And they fly places, or use a fun car, not a sedan or SUV for enjoyable road trips. I'd bet that in the demographic that buys 3 series and up, your dumb commute is nearing six sigma levels of exceptionalism. So remove your one in eleventy billion usage requirements and Teslas and their equivalents present zero challenge to the people actually shopping them. You're not, so go find a hyper miler website or long haul trucker forums to whine about the dumb lefties and their evil self driving cars.

If your cost uber alles argument held any water, there would be no Priuses on the road. But the stupid things are everywhere. Your favorite huckleberry, the Camry is bigger, cheaper, faster and generally makes more sense for pragmatic purchases, but hundreds of thousands of people look the other way and buy the more expensive, smaller and ugly as all hell Prius. This maddening trend is just going to really piss you off with the Model 3 as they're going to be clogging up urban areas. Not the sticks though, as they're not meant for that.
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      07-23-2017, 12:42 PM   #194
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Man, you keep talking about range and long trips, when in the demographic of even the Model 3, people have the means to move closer to work or work remotely. And they fly places, or use a fun car, not a sedan or SUV for enjoyable road trips. I'd bet that in the demographic that buys 3 series and up, your dumb commute is nearing six sigma levels of exceptionalism. So remove your one in eleventy billion usage requirements and Teslas and their equivalents present zero challenge to the people actually shopping them. You're not, so go find a hyper miler website or long haul trucker forums to whine about the dumb lefties and their evil self driving cars.

If your cost uber alles argument held any water, there would be no Priuses on the road. But the stupid things are everywhere. Your favorite huckleberry, the Camry is bigger, cheaper, faster and generally makes more sense for pragmatic purchases, but hundreds of thousands of people look the other way and buy the more expensive, smaller and ugly as all hell Prius. This maddening trend is just going to really piss you off with the Model 3 as they're going to be clogging up urban areas. Not the sticks though, as they're not meant for that.
Thanks for making my point. Here's prius sales and oil prices. Note the uncanny similarity between the two. Both spike in 2009, then dip together, then rise together, then plummet. Gas prices are down. Hybrid sales are down. And gas prices are going to stay down for years. Since this is the biggest reason for an ev, this is not good news for ev sales.


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      07-23-2017, 03:57 PM   #195
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All that says is that the last redesign is so revolting ugly and competition is getting stronger. Two charts with similar curves do not represent correlation, in and of themselves. I could show a chart of M Coupe sales and Train album sales and they'd look like they were related, but we all know they're not.

And that's still more than 100k cars a year. Even if Tesla only hits half that, they're going to be pretty prevalent in many large cities.
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      07-23-2017, 04:07 PM   #196
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You quote Prius sales, and talk of a drop in volume in 2013.

The Tesla Model S is a full-sized all-electric five-door, luxury liftback, produced by Tesla, Inc., and introduced on 22 June 2012

Whodathunkit?
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      07-23-2017, 04:52 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seedyrom View Post
You quote Prius sales, and talk of a drop in volume in 2013.

The Tesla Model S is a full-sized all-electric five-door, luxury liftback, produced by Tesla, Inc., and introduced on 22 June 2012

Whodathunkit?
And tesla took up the slack of prius? Now we're reeeeeeally stretching it. Different price point entirely. People bought more prius because gas prices were high and they wanted to save money. Now with them lower an equivalent ice car thats thousands cheaper is more attractive economically so they bought more of those, less prius. It's simple math every car shopper does. How much car can I get for my money. Lower gas prices make more efficient cars less attractive. Simple as that. If we still had obamas $4 a gallon, EVs and hybrids would be in much higher demand.

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      07-23-2017, 04:56 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by seedyrom View Post
You quote Prius sales, and talk of a drop in volume in 2013.

The Tesla Model S is a full-sized all-electric five-door, luxury liftback, produced by Tesla, Inc., and introduced on 22 June 2012

Whodathunkit?
And tesla took up the slack of prius? Now we're reeeeeeally stretching it.
Why do you say that? The Prius was, prior to the Tesla, a car driven by many folks with exotics and deep pockets. The Tesla did indeed directly replace the Prius for many drivers. It's also available for the HOV stickers in CA, so many greenies chose it in place of the Prius. Cost differential isn't a good enough excuse to not tie the two's sales together, it's the perceived image and the benefits in certain parts of the country available to both.
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