[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by gds

Understood. Finally, the quality of the dampers makes all the difference. I am sure Shaikh has done a great job . My indie mechanic says that he(Shaikh) is the only one he trusts. The major problem is that we are on the other side of the Atlantic...

Shaikh has worked with and shipped to customers across oceans before! I'm sure he can answer questions you might have about how working with him would be given the distance.

[mixmastermike]

Originally Posted by johnung

I have a solid 28mm H&R front sway bar on my 2015 335i XDrive. My car corners flat without the typical excessive body roll.

Now I have Eibach (-06) XDrive springs which are about 10% stiffer than stock. It's very important before you start messing with sway bar changes on a car to settle on a spring choice first.

For example H&R and Dinan springs can be about 30% stiffer, which I consider teeth rattling on rough roads with a daily driver. I'd never put stiff springs like that on and then add the 28mm H&R sway bar. That would be excessive.

A common mistake that guys make too is to lower the car but not replace/modify the stock bump stops. The bump stops are a high tech way of cushioning before a damper actually would bottom out. So it's like a secondary damper. Read posts from FaRKle! on this subject.

If a car is lowered but the stock bump stops are left then the car could be prematurely bottoming out on the stock bump stops causing what appears to be a rough ride. A good solution is often to replace the stock bump stops with shorter F80 bump stops. See photo.

Hope this helps!

Went back to the drawing board and installed a set of F80 ZCP Springs (Manual Transmission/Plain Roof) & F80 Bump Stops on the Bilstein the B8's I'm really loving the ride. Its super comfy and the handling has really improved. I got the Idea from FaRKle!'s post on F8x springs on F3x. I also believe that this set up uses very similar spring rates to your Eibach Springs so maybe the 28mm H&R bar would be a solid choice....

I'm beginning to understand why you have that 28mm H&R bar up front with the Eibach Springs. With 60% of body roll being determined by the front sway bar and only 5-10% being determined by the rear bar. Another FaRKle! video lol

It does have me wondering if I may be better off just biting the bullet and ordering the Dinan front and rear bars... Do you or any friends have any experience with that set up? lots to consider for a daily driver.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by mixmastermike

Went back to the drawing board and installed a set of F80 ZCP Springs (Manual Transmission/Plain Roof) & F80 Bump Stops on the Bilstein the B8's I'm really loving the ride. Its super comfy and the handling has really improved. I got the Idea from FaRKle!'s post on F8x springs on F3x. I also believe that this set up uses very similar spring rates to your Eibach Springs so maybe the 28mm H&R bar would be a solid choice....

I'm beginning to understand why you have that 28mm H&R bar up front with the Eibach Springs. With 60% of body roll being determined by the front sway bar and only 5-10% being determined by the rear bar. Another FaRKle! video lol

It does have me wondering if I may be better off just biting the bullet and ordering the Dinan front and rear bars... Do you or any friends have any experience with that set up? lots to consider for a daily driver.

FaRKle! has great information.

I originally consIdered Dinan sway bars but I'm glad that I got the H&R sways. Lots of online examples & photos of hollow bars like Dinan suddenly snapping in half. (A friend of mine lost his life when a front suspension component snapped and it threw his car into the highway concrete median at 50mph)

I only use/recommend solid steel bars like H&R. Some other brands of sway bars use one solid and one hollow bar in a set.

If your spring rates are similar to mine then you can't go wrong with the H&R 28mm front sway bar. Fantastic at controlling body roll. Install that first and then decide about a rear sway upgrade. You can do a BMW rear 15mm sway bar. I think Eibach or someone may have a 16mm bar. KC Design has a 17mm rear bar. And H&R has a 20mm that's on my car now.

Hope this helps!

[brigade24]

no doubt the H&R bar is better quality. ive run both the dinan and the h&r and the difference is clear.

I would challenge the dinan broken sway bars arguement as i have never seen that...a simple google search should reveal it but ive not seen anything on it. I have seen the dinan sway bar brackets break though which is enough to steer clear of this brand.

ive run the dinan front and rear bar for years using the car for autox and the bars held up fine. I still would not recommend them since their after sales service is less than adequate.

[mixmastermike]

Originally Posted by brigade24

no doubt the H&R bar is better quality. ive run both the dinan and the h&r and the difference is clear.

I would challenge the dinan broken sway bars arguement as i have never seen that...a simple google search should reveal it but ive not seen anything on it. I have seen the dinan sway bar brackets break though which is enough to steer clear of this brand.

ive run the dinan front and rear bar for years using the car for autox and the bars held up fine. I still would not recommend them since their after sales service is less than adequate.

Great Information....

I think I'm going to start with the front H&R 28mm Bar. I was doing a little research and trying to find out what the diameter the F80 M3 Competition sway bars are. It's tough to find clarity on that subject but I am using those springs tho so maybe knowing the size would give me a little confidence. Dinan's website states STD is 24.7mm front and 22.9mm rear. Ive also read on a forum post that the Competition uses 26mm and 23mm rear. I don't have that many options with XDrive.... It's really a shame a BMW 24.7mm bar would probably be great but I cant find one due to the XDrive platforms using weaker bars up front. I was even looking at bars on the European f32 diesel MSports with no luck

[mixmastermike]

Originally Posted by johnung

FaRKle! has great information.

I originally consIdered Dinan sway bars but I'm glad that I got the H&R sways. Lots of online examples & photos of hollow bars like Dinan suddenly snapping in half. (A friend of mine lost his life when a front suspension component snapped and it threw his car into the highway concrete median at 50mph)

I only use/recommend solid steel bars like H&R. Some other brands of sway bars use one solid and one hollow bar in a set.

If your spring rates are similar to mine then you can't go wrong with the H&R 28mm front sway bar. Fantastic at controlling body roll. Install that first and then decide about a rear sway upgrade. You can do a BMW rear 15mm sway bar. I think Eibach or someone may have a 16mm bar. KC Design has a 17mm rear bar. And H&R has a 20mm that's on my car now.

Hope this helps!

It does help.... Im pretty sure that Eibach and ZCP springs rates are within 5% - If you can handle the H&R's I should be in a pretty similar situation. How does the back end behave under spirited driving? Im just getting used to the feel of my current set up with the new springs and stiffer rear bar (went from 12mm to 15mm) I had intended to install a 24.7mm BMW from bar but I was early on in this process and I picked one up not thinking about XDrive lol Yup those axels really do mean that you need an XDrive specific bar design... I'm at the start of my journey learning to modify in my garage tho so $80 is kinda the the cost of learning in this case. Craigslist here we come....

[johnung]

Originally Posted by mixmastermike

It does help.... Im pretty sure that Eibach and ZCP springs rates are within 5% - If you can handle the H&R's I should be in a pretty similar situation. How does the back end behave under spirited driving? Im just getting used to the feel of my current set up with the new springs and stiffer rear bar (went from 12mm to 15mm) I had intended to install a 24.7mm BMW from bar but I was early on in this process and I picked one up not thinking about XDrive lol Yup those axels really do mean that you need an XDrive specific bar design... I'm at the start of my journey learning to modify in my garage tho so $80 is kinda the the cost of learning in this case. Craigslist here we come....

I'm not familiar with ZCP springs but the spring rates on the Eibach kits, both E10-20-031-06-22 and E10-20-031-05-22 are Front 194 lb/in and Rear 542 lb/in. Please let me know what spring rates you find out for ZCP.

For comparison:
KW V1,V2,V3 for F30 335ix which are considered comfortable for coilovers are Front 226/Rear 630 lb/in. (KW Street Comfort are F226/R575)

My stock rear bar was 12mm. Over three years ago I just went and bought the H&R sway kit (F28mm/R20mm) because I've used their sway bars for decades so I was confident that they would design a kit that matched well. Please see attached photos.

I've been pretty happy with the rear 20mm bar in my street driving. I've also got the Eibach -06 spring kit, Koni Special Active dampers, a front strut tower brace and an M Performance LSD in the rear.

I've never tracked the car. FaRKle and I had a conversation a while back when he suggested that the 20mm rear bar may be too strong for my setup. I could be losing some rear tire contact at times because of it. He said that it would probably be more obvious to me if I took it out on a track. Then Covid hit and shut my local tracks down.

His suggestions were to swap my solid rear 20mm H&R bar out for a solid BMW 15mm rear bar which you already installed. Or maybe a KC Design solid rear 17mm bar. It's $242 but the shipping on top of that from Taiwan is really expensive.

So if you install the H&R front bar you should be all set with your current rear solid 15mm sway bar.

Note that all of the rear sway bars fit either RWD or XDrive because their rear suspensions are identical. It's up in the front suspension where it gets tight with all of the extra XDrive components.

Hope this helps!

[mixmastermike]

Originally Posted by johnung

I'm not familiar with ZCP springs but the spring rates on the Eibach kits, both E10-20-031-06-22 and E10-20-031-05-22 are Front 194 lb/in and Rear 542 lb/in. Please let me know what spring rates you find out for ZCP.

For comparison:
KW V1,V2,V3 for F30 335ix which are considered comfortable for coilovers are Front 226/Rear 630 lb/in. (KW Street Comfort are F226/R575)

My stock rear bar was 12mm. Over three years ago I just went and bought the H&R sway kit (F28mm/R20mm) because I've used their sway bars for decades so I was confident that they would design a kit that matched well. Please see attached photos.

I've been pretty happy with the rear 20mm bar in my street driving. I've also got the Eibach -06 spring kit, Koni Special Active dampers, a front strut tower brace and an M Performance LSD in the rear.

I've never tracked the car. FaRKle and I had a conversation a while back when he suggested that the 20mm rear bar may be too strong for my setup. I could be losing some rear tire contact at times because of it. He said that it would probably be more obvious to me if I took it out on a track. Then Covid hit and shut my local tracks down.

His suggestions were to swap my solid rear 20mm H&R bar out for a solid BMW 15mm rear bar which you already installed. Or maybe a KC Design solid rear 17mm bar. It's $242 but the shipping on top of that from Taiwan is really expensive.

So if you install the H&R front bar you should be all set with your current rear solid 15mm sway bar.

Note that all of the rear sway bars fit either RWD or XDrive because their rear suspensions are identical. It's up in the front suspension where it gets tight with all of the extra XDrive components.

Hope this helps!

As always thanks for the input. I'm gonna pull the trigger on the H&R front bar this afternoon and see how it works out.

Have you seen any of the videos that Andrew did with FatCat Motorsports?

I found these so helpful, there's another 2 or 3 on the channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_Gj4EIt98E

Maybe you've seen them?

Tuning suspension makes the care handle and ride so much better and in retrospect I think its something that should be done before engine tuning - theres no way I could get the power down before as the traction control would kick in on the 'Pogo Stick' stock set up.

Here are the spring rates

M3 (Comp. Pkg)
Front – 198 lbs/in
Rear – 685 lbs/in

The ride height is going to be a bit higher than your set up with Eibach's & Koni's and with the slight B8 lift its not as pleasing to the eye but living in Colorado having a B58 snow plough also isn't that desirable so it is what it is and doesn't bother me that much.

I threw up some quick pics at the end of the thread below so that anyone that might take on a similar set up would have an idea of the look.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1634710

How did the Rear diff change the car?

[Jvac]

I'm glad to see @farkle and Shaikh from fatcat motorsports getting some love and respect for the great work they do for all of us. It seems like a lot of people have moved on from the platform since the time when they were putting up all these great videos and forum posts but they're still around if you search, and it's about the best advice you can get for tuning the f chassis since they've actually tested so many of the different aftermarket options. I just got around to installing a set of fatcat dampers along with stiffer springs and camber plates and my car feels great thus far. I may post a longer review once I've had a chance to really get out and open it up some, but I will say that I am glad to have ditched the m sport adaptive. It was compromised in both sport and comfort modes and so I was always switching back and forth when road conditions changed. Now I just drive the car without thinking about it.
A limited slip differential is a fantastic upgrade as well if you have the money and like to drive aggressively. Granted I'm rear wheel drive but even the x drive owners universally agree it's a good upgrade. With the stock diff, my car would break traction so easily and the stability control would jump right in and spoil the fun, even on stock engine tune. Since adding the diff I pretty much never break grip, even with a tune and a downpipe pushing quite a bit more power to the wheels. It just goes, straight and predictable every time.

[mixmastermike]

Originally Posted by Jvac

I'm glad to see @farkle and Shaikh from fatcat motorsports getting some love and respect for the great work they do for all of us. It seems like a lot of people have moved on from the platform since the time when they were putting up all these great videos and forum posts but they're still around if you search, and it's about the best advice you can get for tuning the f chassis since they've actually tested so many of the different aftermarket options. I just got around to installing a set of fatcat dampers along with stiffer springs and camber plates and my car feels great thus far. I may post a longer review once I've had a chance to really get out and open it up some, but I will say that I am glad to have ditched the m sport adaptive. It was compromised in both sport and comfort modes and so I was always switching back and forth when road conditions changed. Now I just drive the car without thinking about it.
A limited slip differential is a fantastic upgrade as well if you have the money and like to drive aggressively. Granted I'm rear wheel drive but even the x drive owners universally agree it's a good upgrade. With the stock diff, my car would break traction so easily and the stability control would jump right in and spoil the fun, even on stock engine tune. Since adding the diff I pretty much never break grip, even with a tune and a downpipe pushing quite a bit more power to the wheels. It just goes, straight and predictable every time.

I didn't realize the chassis was this good I did some engine tuning very similar to yourself. Downpipe, Stage 2, HPFP, Filter and it was only any good in a straight line lol.

Since tuning the suspension the standard 4 pot brakes actually feel pretty good. I had been toying with the idea of the M-Sport caliper upgrade however for a DD that never sees a track it's probably overkill, for looks that's a different story... Truly amazing what a dialed in suspension will do for a car. It's defiantly better than M-Sport adaptive I have a friend who owns a 340 with that set up and it's just not as good.

I would have had a nightmare trying to take any of this work on without Andrew and Shaikh's work, oh and Lancelot big Respect to everyone who contributes here it's really given my car a new lease of life.

[brigade24]

Originally Posted by johnung

My stock rear bar was 12mm. Over three years ago I just went and bought the H&R sway kit (F28mm/R20mm) because I've used their sway bars for decades so I was confident that they would design a kit that matched well. Please see attached photos.

I've been pretty happy with the rear 20mm bar in my street driving. I've also got the Eibach -06 spring kit, Koni Special Active dampers, a front strut tower brace and an M Performance LSD in the rear.

I've never tracked the car. FaRKle and I had a conversation a while back when he suggested that the 20mm rear bar may be too strong for my setup. I could be losing some rear tire contact at times because of it. He said that it would probably be more obvious to me if I took it out on a track. Then Covid hit and shut my local tracks down.

His suggestions were to swap my solid rear 20mm H&R bar out for a solid BMW 15mm rear bar which you already installed. Or maybe a KC Design solid rear 17mm bar. It's $242 but the shipping on top of that from Taiwan is really expensive.

So if you install the H&R front bar you should be all set with your current rear solid 15mm sway bar.

Note that all of the rear sway bars fit either RWD or XDrive because their rear suspensions are identical. It's up in the front suspension where it gets tight with all of the extra XDrive components.

That's one of the reasons i didn't go with the 20mm h&r bar. i left the 19mm dinan hollow bar in the rear for this very reason and it's still challenging to get the outside of the rear tires to heat up while autoxing. I even reduced the camber from -2.4 to -1.9 and while that helped its still not optimal. the dinan rear bar is 3-way adjustable so I can reduce the stiffness which is why i left it in.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by brigade24

That's one of the reasons i didn't go with the 20mm h&r bar. i left the 19mm dinan hollow bar in the rear for this very reason and it's still challenging to get the outside of the rear tires to heat up while autoxing. I even reduced the camber from -2.4 to -1.9 and while that helped its still not optimal. the dinan rear bar is 3-way adjustable so I can reduce the stiffness which is why i left it in.

That's cool. Adjustable sway bars (of any brand) usually don't matter for the street because the outer lightest holes are typically used for street. Only the stiffer inside holes remain if someone really wanted to try them for tracking.

[AD03]

Hello everyone, I recently put eibach sway bars front and rear on my 330i LCI RWD along with B16 comfort spec coil overs . I’m running approximate 10 mm lowering from stock height but my rear sways are rubbing against the underbody . I’ve even tried shorted endlinks from SPL parts but still it rubs. I’ve been scouting the forum for anyone facing similar issue but couldn’t find any. Any leads would be appreciated.

[freakystyly]

When lowering you need to extend the links not shorten...

The shocks are 10mm higher up in the wheel well than they used to be.

[mixmastermike]

Originally Posted by AD03

Hello everyone, I recently put eibach sway bars front and rear on my 330i LCI RWD along with B16 comfort spec coil overs . I’m running approximate 10 mm lowering from stock height but my rear sways are rubbing against the underbody . I’ve even tried shorted endlinks from SPL parts but still it rubs. I’ve been scouting the forum for anyone facing similar issue but couldn’t find any. Any leads would be appreciated.

I just had a similar situation after upgrading a sway bar and fitting SPL end links. Before the adjustable end links there was so much preload on the rear sway bar that the suspension wasn't working independently. Not very comfy and very twitchy under harder acceleration while cornering.

Watch this and make sure your end links are connected in the correct orientation.

After the installation I put the all the cars wheels on 2 inch platforms to be able to access the end links and adjust them. Once adjusted - see video - lower the car, remove each wheel and lock the adjustment nuts in place according to spec. The ride is a lot more comfy and predictable now.

[mixmastermike]

Originally Posted by johnung

That's cool. Adjustable sway bars (of any brand) usually don't matter for the street because the outer lightest holes are typically used for street. Only the stiffer inside holes remain if someone really wanted to try them for tracking.

When you ordered your front H&R sway bar did you find a vendor who actually stocked it or was it a special order item? I just got a quote of 5+ months from Evasive Motorsports... bummer....

[Pussiwillow]

Originally Posted by mixmastermike

When you ordered your front H&R sway bar did you find a vendor who actually stocked it or was it a special order item? I just got a quote of 5+ months from Evasive Motorsports... bummer....

Damn Turner says ship by a few days, I was about to order because my subframe is coming off…
Did you try them? I'm very curious

[Pussiwillow]

Here's what Turner said

[Pussiwillow]

Order placed I'll update if it ships

[mixmastermike]

Originally Posted by Pussiwillow

Order placed I'll update if it ships

Thanks,

The challenge has been that my vehicle is Xdrive and they generally don't have them in stock. I'm certainly going to hit them up tho and roll the dice...

[mixmastermike]

Yup O.O.S.

darn it lol

[FaRKle!]

If you're having trouble acquiring H&R parts try emailing andreas.schade@gmx.de. He's a German-based distributor for them (and who I acquired my H&R bars through). Prices even with shipping are typically same or lower as US vendors. When Bilstein USA was OOS for dampers for months I was able to get them through him too.