[Boostedphil698]

Alright everyone, Fabspeed 200 cell sport cat or the 400 cell Active Autowerke. Fabspeed is not EPA registered while Active Autowerke is but it is 400 cell. Looking for the most sound and to pass emissions.

[Logicoeur]

Both have CEL guarantees and you can't do better than those. The AA is a tiny bit cheaper but again can't go wrong with either one.

[GAB0]

I know you didn't mention it, but there's also CG.

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

Both have CEL guarantees and you can't do better than those. The AA is a tiny bit cheaper but again can't go wrong with either one.

It really comes down to which one gives more sound. Fabspeed is very minimal in terms of cell count.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

It really comes down to which one gives more sound. Fabspeed is very minimal in terms of cell count.

Both get you the same result, Active is much cheaper.

We installed the Active downpipe on the shop's M4, i really like the sound

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Both get you the same result, Active is much cheaper.

We installed the Active downpipe on the shop's M4, i really like the sound

I have the full AWE exhaust, I hope that if I go with the Active autowerke downpipe it'll give me a lot more sound.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

I have the full AWE exhaust, I hope that if I go with the Active autowerke downpipe it'll give me a lot more sound.

Its a noticeable increase in sound with a lot more volume in the mid-range

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Its a noticeable increase in sound with a lot more volume in the mid-range

That's what I'm looking for.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

It really comes down to which one gives more sound. Fabspeed is very minimal in terms of cell count.

Just a comment on catted downpipe performance:

One thing that you don't seem to be considering is performance of Catted downpipes. That's normal because there is very little comparison data out there.

Fabspeed is the only catted downpipe manufacturer that I've seen who discussed performance. They did dyno testing between their N55 catted and catless downpipes and claimed that the catted delivered 93% performance of their catless.

I've been to Fabspeed several times and have spoken with their engineers. They have a dyno setup that they use in product development. It allows them to put the car up and quickly change and exhaust component, and dyno again. They do this all of the time to prove during development that a modification really works as it should in theory. So I have little doubt that Fabspeed really ran these tests.

These types of tests are not difficult or expensive for a downpipe manufacturer to run. Anyone could rent a couple of dyno sessions to collect the data. So the fact that other DP manufacturers don't supply this type of data leads me to believe that their data isn't very good.

The number of CELLS in a catalytic converters is meaningless in terms of emissions or performance. Don't fall into that trap. Catalytic converters are made by specialty companies and purchased as a component by downpipe manufacturers that incorporate them into their DPs. In general better catalytic converters are more expensive to make because the precious metals in them are so costly.

The N55 Fabspeed catted downpipe right now lists for $$1,900 since the price increased this past year on the European HJS cats that they use. Fabspeed has holiday 20% off sales so the rock bottom price is about $1,520.

The Active Autowerke catted downpipe sells for about $1,092. So that's roughly a $428 price difference.

Both the Fabspeed and the Active Autowerke catted downpipes do the main job of preventing a Check Engine Light that could fail emissions in certain states. $428 is a big price difference. So I'd lean towards buying the AA, unless I was focused on maximizing performance on my car (while still passing emissions). I'm assuming that Fabspeed will beat AA on a dyno because as far as I know AA doesn't publish any catted vs catless comparison data.

(Note: Tunes like BootMod3 can prevent a CEL from say a catless downpipe from popping up on your dashboard but you will still fail emissions if your state plugs into the OBD port under your dashboard.)

Hope this helps!

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by johnung

Just a comment on catted downpipe performance:

One thing that you don't seem to be considering is performance of Catted downpipes. That's normal because there is very little comparison data out there.

Fabspeed is the only catted downpipe manufacturer that I've seen who discussed performance. They did dyno testing between their N55 catted and catless downpipes and claimed that the catted delivered 93% performance of their catless.

I've been to Fabspeed several times and have spoken with their engineers. They have a dyno setup that they use in product development. It allows them to put the car up and quickly change and exhaust component, and dyno again. They do this all of the time to prove during development that a modification really works as it should in theory. So I have little doubt that Fabspeed really ran these tests.

These types of tests are not difficult or expensive for a downpipe manufacturer to run. Anyone could rent a couple of dyno sessions to collect the data. So the fact that other DP manufacturers don't supply this type of data leads me to believe that their data isn't very good.

The number of CELLS in a catalytic converters is meaningless in terms of emissions or performance. Don't fall into that trap. Catalytic converters are made by specialty companies and purchased as a component by downpipe manufacturers that incorporate them into their DPs. In general better catalytic converters are more expensive to make because the precious metals in them are so costly.

The N55 Fabspeed catted downpipe right now lists for $$1,900 since the price increased this past year on the European HJS cats that they use. Fabspeed has holiday 20% off sales so the rock bottom price is about $1,520.

The Active Autowerke catted downpipe sells for about $1,092. So that's roughly a $428 price difference.

Both the Fabspeed and the Active Autowerke catted downpipes do the main job of preventing a Check Engine Light that could fail emissions in certain states. $428 is a big price difference. So I'd lean towards buying the AA, unless I was focused on maximizing performance on my car (while still passing emissions). I'm assuming that Fabspeed will beat AA on a dyno because as far as I know AA doesn't publish any catted vs catless comparison data.

(Note: Tunes like BootMod3 can prevent a CEL from say a catless downpipe from popping up on your dashboard but you will still fail emissions if your state plugs into the OBD port under your dashboard.)

Hope this helps!

Thanks for clarifying. You always have great information! I'm trying to make the best decision that includes the ability to pass emissions in PA, get the most sound cause I don't think AWE is THAT aggressive and have the most flow. The only reason I consider AA is because of it's EPA registration. I'm worried if I get the Fabspeed option that when the dealer or indy shop does the emissions it will check for an EPA stamped cat. I typically drive my 435i less than 5k miles a year so I'm typically emissions exempt but I don't want to be hellbent on that threshold.

[mlev]

Just for some perspective, I also have AWE full catback on my 335i. I paired it with the CG Precision DS-01 catted downpipe (200 CELL) + BM3. It has the same "no check engine light" qualities of AA and Fabspeed and has been great for me. I am due for my first CA emissions check in April of 2022, hoping it goes smoothly if I flash back to stock. I believe the DS-01 is just a longer production lead time and made to order.

Here's a clip shortly after I got everything installed. This was when I was running the non-resonated AWE midpipe. I actually ended up buying the AWE resonated midpipe later on to minimize slight drone. It's still very aggressive with the resonated midpipe, but more DD friendly. The downpipe, especially 200 CELL, definitely adds volume and aggression. Just something to consider if your midpipe is not resonated.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

Thanks for clarifying. You always have great information! I'm trying to make the best decision that includes the ability to pass emissions in PA, get the most sound cause I don't think AWE is THAT aggressive and have the most flow. The only reason I consider AA is because of it's EPA registration. I'm worried if I get the Fabspeed option that when the dealer or indy shop does the emissions it will check for an EPA stamped cat. I typically drive my 435i less than 5k miles a year so I'm typically emissions exempt but I don't want to be hellbent on that threshold.

Wow you must really like your exhaust loud. I have some real Motörhead friends with AWE who swapped their stock midpipe back on because it was just too loud for their wives and neighbors. AWE is the best exhaust that I've heard at BMW events.

I've had a Fabspeed catted DP for a couple of years and really like it. I'm in NJ, a tough emissions state. I didn't want to deal with swapping it to pass emissions. It definitely added to the sound of my stock midpipe and M Performance Exhaust. IMO in your situation in PA I would choose the AA catted downpipe.

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by johnung

Wow you must really like your exhaust loud. I have some real Motörhead friends with AWE who swapped their stock midpipe back on because it was just too loud for their wives and neighbors. AWE is the best exhaust that I've heard at BMW events.

I've had a Fabspeed catted DP for a couple of years and really like it. I'm in NJ, a tough emissions state. I didn't want to deal with swapping it to pass emissions. It definitely added to the sound of my stock midpipe and M Performance Exhaust. IMO in your situation in PA I would choose the AA catted downpipe.

Nothing is too loud to me because there is a dude with test pipes on his motorcycle and it has literally woke me up not to mention we have some Z06 corvettes and other V8 muscle in my neighborhood. My car also only ever sees the street maybe 2 days a week. So, you've passed emissions every year no issues? I'm guessing Jersey only does the OBD check?

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

Nothing is too loud to me because there is a dude with test pipes on his motorcycle and it has literally woke me up not to mention we have some Z06 corvettes and other V8 muscle in my neighborhood. My car also only ever sees the street maybe 2 days a week. So, you've passed emissions every year no issues? I'm guessing Jersey only does the OBD check?

Yes, OBD check in NJ. I've heard mention in CA of actual under hood inspection looking for anything not stock. Don't know how true that is or details.

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by johnung

Yes, OBD check in NJ. I've heard mention in CA of actual under hood inspection looking for anything not stock. Don't know how true that is or details.

CA is a whole different ball game haha.

[Jvac]

Anybody here care to comment on how a catted downpipe might behave with a dinan stage 2 piggyback tune? I've read a couple of threads here and some people say it's ok, some say not ok, some say no benefit or makes the engine too rich etc. If the downpipe could increase/improve the exhaust notes a bit while also delivering a performance increase, and not cause check engine/emissions problems, that might be ideal for me. My main question is does the piggyback system know how to make use of the mod or not. I have no plans to move to bootmod3 any time soon.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Jvac

Anybody here care to comment on how a catted downpipe might behave with a dinan stage 2 piggyback tune? I've read a couple of threads here and some people say it's ok, some say not ok, some say no benefit or makes the engine too rich etc. If the downpipe could increase/improve the exhaust notes a bit while also delivering a performance increase, and not cause check engine/emissions problems, that might be ideal for me. My main question is does the piggyback system know how to make use of the mod or not. I have no plans to move to bootmod3 any time soon.

There will be performance gains, yes. Even on a stock car. Generally speaking the more boost you are running, the greater the gains. I am not sure how the Dinan modulates engine load and boost, i assume is preserves stock like behavior, similar to MHD. I don't see any reason why the DP would make the engine run rich, not sure where you read that? That never happens on a stock or a tuned car. It's possible it could be an artifact of the dinan, but i find that unlikely.

Any DP will increase exhaust volume and change tone, yes. Plenty of separate discussions on that.

As to emissions it depends on your state requirements and whether or not you need to have the catalyst monitor ready. IF you do, you need to get AA, fabspeed, or CG downpipes.

[Jvac]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

There will be performance gains, yes. Even on a stock car. Generally speaking the more boost you are running, the greater the gains. I am not sure how the Dinan modulates engine load and boost, i assume is preserves stock like behavior, similar to MHD. I don't see any reason why the DP would make the engine run rich, not sure where you read that? That never happens on a stock or a tuned car. It's possible it could be an artifact of the dinan, but i find that unlikely.

Any DP will increase exhaust volume and change tone, yes. Plenty of separate discussions on that.

As to emissions it depends on your state requirements and whether or not you need to have the catalyst monitor ready. IF you do, you need to get AA, fabspeed, or CG downpipes.

You are the man, although you already knew that because it's in your name... Maybe what I read was somebody running a downpipe with NO tune, but again some people said it was fine and some didn't, so who knows. I was just curious before I consider doing a downpipe if anyone has done this since you can't control the piggyback tuner's behavior. I should probably ask dinan. I would be looking at something like the AA catted pipe, fabspeed is too pricey for me and I don't want to do catless because I do have to pass an emissions test here in TX.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Jvac

Anybody here care to comment on how a catted downpipe might behave with a dinan stage 2 piggyback tune? I've read a couple of threads here and some people say it's ok, some say not ok, some say no benefit or makes the engine too rich etc. If the downpipe could increase/improve the exhaust notes a bit while also delivering a performance increase, and not cause check engine/emissions problems, that might be ideal for me. My main question is does the piggyback system know how to make use of the mod or not. I have no plans to move to bootmod3 any time soon.

I've had a used Dinantronics Stage 2 on my M235 6MT for over a year. About 1.5 years prior to that, I installed the HJS Euro 6 catted DP. The HJS Euro 6 catted DP made a very nice improvement in mid range power and of course sound with the MP exhaust I have. I've had absolutely no issues running the HJS Euro 6 catted DP and the Dinantronics Stage 2. The car rips.

People with similar mods as myself (Dinan Stage 2, catted DP, CP, IC, and MPPK airbox) on their M235s have seen 370-385whp/380-390wtq on the Dynojet. Good enough for me.

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1122931

[Jvac]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I've had a used Dinantronics Stage 2 on my M235 6MT for over a year. About 1.5 years prior to that, I installed the HJS Euro 6 catted DP. The HJS Euro 6 catted DP made a very nice improvement in mid range power and of course sound with the MP exhaust I have. I've had absolutely no issues running the HJS Euro 6 catted DP and the Dinantronics Stage 2. The car rips.

People with similar mods as myself (Dinan Stage 2, catted DP, CP, IC, and MPPK airbox) on their M235s have seen 370-385whp/380-390wtq on the Dynojet. Good enough for me.

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1122931

Thanks a bunch. That's exactly what I wanted to know.

[SimSimmaF30]

Originally Posted by mlev

Just for some perspective, I also have AWE full catback on my 335i. I paired it with the CG Precision DS-01 catted downpipe (200 CELL) + BM3. It has the same "no check engine light" qualities of AA and Fabspeed and has been great for me. I am due for my first CA emissions check in April of 2022, hoping it goes smoothly if I flash back to stock. I believe the DS-01 is just a longer production lead time and made to order.

Here's a clip shortly after I got everything installed. This was when I was running the non-resonated AWE midpipe. I actually ended up buying the AWE resonated midpipe later on to minimize slight drone. It's still very aggressive with the resonated midpipe, but more DD friendly. The downpipe, especially 200 CELL, definitely adds volume and aggression. Just something to consider if your midpipe is not resonated.

Just purchased this exact setup for my b58 340. Awe with midpipe and cg-precision! I hope my ride sounds like this bc.. 🤤

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by SimSimmaF30

Just purchased this exact setup for my b58 340. Awe with midpipe and cg-precision! I hope my ride sounds like this bc.. 🤤