[Abrek]

Originally Posted by fabkat

What millers are folk using for diesel? Recently i started filling up with BP ultimate once every third tank or so.

Don’t bother with Millers. The active ingredient in Millers is 2-EHN, the rest is kerosene. You can buy pure (99%) 2-EHN on eBay and it’s 5 times cheaper than using millers. Got 5 litters for around £30 myself and after 20,000 I still have 2 liters left. Stuff definitely works especially on cold mornings but there’s plenty of research online that shows that effects on warm engine are less noticeable.

[GOWRIN]

Originally Posted by Abrek

Don’t bother with Millers. The active ingredient in Millers is 2-EHN, the rest is kerosene. You can buy pure (99%) 2-EHN on eBay and it’s 5 times cheaper than using millers. Got 5 litters for around £30 myself and after 20,000 I still have 2 liters left. Stuff definitely works especially on cold mornings but there’s plenty of research online that shows that effects on warm engine are less noticeable.

Now this is something new I have not previously heard about.
So 2-EHN is better to use and cheaper and more effective than Millers and Shell V Power, assuming they help keep the engine running cleaner? How much would you add to each tank of fuel?

[Abrek]

Originally Posted by GOWRIN

Now this is something new I have not previously heard about.
So 2-EHN is better to use and cheaper and more effective than Millers and Shell V Power, assuming they help keep the engine running cleaner? How much would you add to each tank of fuel?

2-EHN is additive that is used in premium fuels as well but with much higher margin. Plenty of research online. Dosage is between 50 to 100ml per 50 liters. There was a link in another thread to lab testing that showed that increasing the dose beyond 150ml didn’t improve performance of fuel.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by GOWRIN

Now this is something new I have not previously heard about.
So 2-EHN is better to use and cheaper and more effective than Millers and Shell V Power, assuming they help keep the engine running cleaner? How much would you add to each tank of fuel?

2-EHN is a Cetane booster. That is only one component in some of the additive packages, which may have other components such as deposit control additives and extra detergents.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by Panchoa

Yep this stuff 50ml with each tank.....costs about £1.50 per tank...why?!?!

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F160987265508

I think he (and I) are interested in why you are using a petrol fuel additive with a diesel engine.

Doesn't seem to be a very good idea.

Why aren't you using fuel additives which are specifically intended for diesel engines ??

[SkyJawa]

Originally Posted by fabkat

What millers are folk using for diesel? Recently i started filling up with BP ultimate once every third tank or so.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/392266894057

[Abrek]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

2-EHN is a Cetane booster. That is only one component in some of the additive packages, which may have other components such as deposit control additives and extra detergents.

Not in Millers thought. If you look at content on millers bottle it’s just 2-EHN and kerosene. Not sure how good kerosene in deposit control but if you feel like adding some it’s cheap as chips.

[lethbridge]

I've done 100ks of miles in 35ds. I've always used supermarket standard fuel and never had any issues at all - at the end of the day it all comes from the same refineries - at one stage I did put in additives (which as we know is all they do on premium diesel) but decided that was a waste of money too (and if I recall the fuel cap says "no additives") - after all, if supermarket fuel is as bad as some people make out then that's why I have a warranty. The most miles I put on a 35d was 115k on one I had DMS work their magic on - it sounded the same when I sold it as when I bought it. I guess if you are planning on running to 200k miles and beyond there may be a point in sticking an additive in now and again but given in the main diesels are driven by high mileage drivers I can't see why you would spend probably £300-£500 extra a year on Shell juice (super or standard) with no noticeable benefit other than feeling that your engine is loving it. Of course if you are a low mileage driver then a diesel is not the best choice of car and additives/premium fuel probably become more worthwhile (as the costs don't mount up) but then are you going to get your car to a mileage where it really starts to impact it? In terms of performance gains between fuels I would get it a little more if you were running a custom map designed for a specific Cetane which presumably could corrupt your cars ability to adjust to whatever you put in it (but I've not heard of that unlike petrol where some maps are design for specific octane). Aside from that power gains would be marginal and not noticeable except on timed laps (in my view).

[g9icy]

So I've done some research into this with my 435d and found that more expensive fuels do absolutely make a difference to my particular car.

I exclusively use BP Ultimate now as a result, and if I can't get BP Ult, I use VPower.

What I observed when using BP Ult:
- The engine idle sound is *significantly* more pleasant.
- When accelerating the engine sounds less agricultural - Less "ticking" or "clacking".
- There's a definite and obvious increase in acceleration in the lower gears.

The idle sound in the cabin now sounds quite pleasant!

I tried CostCo "premium" diesel with millers and the car felt sluggish and sounded terrible.

I can definitely notice the difference when using supermarket/costco fuel after a few months of using BP Ultimate, because I get used to the feeling of the acceleration. I find myself wondering what the hell is wrong with the car, then I remember I didn't put BP Ult in.

I'm still trying to figure out if there's much difference betwen BP and Shell VPower, but it feels like shell doesn't give the car quite the same increase in acceleration, but still better than bog standard fuel.

We're still talking low % of power increase, but it's obvious to me. The main thing is the better engine sound though.

If you're planning on doing these experiments yourself, bear in mind that now is the time of "winter diesel" so that could affect results.

Edit: Note that my car seems to have some issue where there's less noise isolation from the engine bay than other cars of the same type. I've observed this twice now when having been in two different 335d's, that sounded significantly quieter and smoother than mine. This is probably why I can tell such a notable difference in engine sound.

[Gromdal]

Originally Posted by fabkat

What millers are folk using for diesel? Recently i started filling up with BP ultimate once every third tank or so.

I'm using this Hydra Diesel Power Blast stuff off Amazon - same thing but cheaper. been fine for the last year on my 320d and noticeable when I don't use it and am on supermarket fuel.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Abrek

Not in Millers thought. If you look at content on millers bottle it’s just 2-EHN and kerosene. Not sure how good kerosene in deposit control but if you feel like adding some it’s cheap as chips.

Are you saying COMPONENT 72248 is simply kerosene? Not sure how that is arrived at. Many of the technical data sheets hide the active ingredients in names, such as Millers use. Details are proprietary to individual manufacturers.

BMW don't list their specific ingredients, in their own additive, although one key part of the package is BASF's Kerocom.

[GOWRIN]

Everyone's experience and advise is very interesting. Seems there is no real right or wrong answer for this.

I might give Millers a go and see how it feels. Filled up with standard Shell this morning. My aim is to keep a fairly clean engine.
I have BMW warranty so I guess that is something in case of any issues but the engine is going to burn fuel and have deposits of sorts either way.

If BMW thought there are issue with all the various fuels out there they would recommend you use a certain brands and void warranty if you didn't but they don't...

With supermarket fuels there is all this talk going on about that they are not that refined or to the same standard the the branded stuff such as Shell and BP

[Eddamoo]

I also religiously use 2EHN - about 75ml per tank mixed with some IPA and Naphtha (common ingredients in Injector Cleaner) in little 150ml bottles.

I've been using this mix since ~2006 - back then i had a highly tuned VW PD engine with lots of visible black soot and lots of clatter. The 2EHN managed to reduce the soot massively - to well under 50%! The clatter was also far more muted.

The effects are not so pronounced on my 6cyl BMW, but are definitely there. I feel better knowing as a matter of fact that less soot is entering the DPF and EGR.

Last time i checked, i think my DPF was on 15g Soot with 400km travelled since previous regen - would be good to keep an eye on this going forward to compare.

[lethbridge]

I agree - it is one you have to decide for yourself - but I think the talk that supermarket stuff is somehow different at a refining level is nonsense - I think a delivery driver has confirmed before now it is all the same stuff and they just add different additives when they deliver it... My take on this is there is a lot of placebo effect - not saying people can't tell the difference it is just it is all very marginal and you just have to experiment choice and pay a premium if you like (Shell & BP's marketing clearly works for them). If you run cars under warranty then about all you are left with caring about really is whether it makes a difference to the sound - at the end of the day it is a diesel and at least as a 6 pot it isn't that bad... Hence I've never wanted to pay the premium - indeed I always fill up my M3CP on premium supermarket and I can't tell if there is 5 hp missing or not - it shreds tyres regardless

[rjwojcik]

Never used additives before but off the back of this thread have decided to invest in some Hydra Diesel Power Blast as well. We'll see how that goes...

[Assassin]

Do premium fuels add to performance, run quieter and keep cleaner engines?

Performance - maybe and if so marginal. On a 35d etc the gearbox torque limits are the defining factor in the lower gears when accelerating hard as no matter which fuel you use not all the power will get to the road anyway.

Run quieter - yes. I used Millers for a long time on my previous 535d (350hp/700nm) and there was definitely less clatter at idle / really low rpm but no difference otherwise.

Cleaner - probably. On the 535d I used supermarket diesel for the last 30k+ of the 115k miles. When I took the inlet manifold off whilst fitting new glow plugs there was very little carbon build up at all. BUT that car did lots of fast miles and a good few motorway miles. That is what diesels thrive on. Short distances at slow speeds gums them up over time both the dpf and the inlet manifold due to the recirculated exhaust gases and the lower temps. It takes many miles for these engines to heat up to full working temp and unless they some sustained motorway speed runs or hard driving the oily deposits never get hot enough to dry out and be dispersed.

The ultimate solution is have the egr value coded out. That stops any oily gases being re-routed back through the inlet manifold and causing that nasty black oily gunge you see in all the pics diluting performance and causing problems with swirl flaps etc. Cheaper than premium fuel and cheap fuel + additives and a guaranteed clean engine.

[GOWRIN]

Originally Posted by Assassin

The ultimate solution is have the egr value coded out. That stops any oily gases being re-routed back through the inlet manifold and causing that nasty black oily gunge you see in all the pics diluting performance and causing problems with swirl flaps etc. Cheaper than premium fuel and cheap fuel + additives and a guaranteed clean engine.

I am assuming this may void warranty?

[1966-TR4]

Originally Posted by jackstrath

On a standard car you wont feel anything short term, but your engine will be happier internally long term...

On a mapped car you would be silly to use a lower quality fuel and 100% you would notice it.

Theres going to be people chiming in saying its a waste of money very shortly but these people dont understand or driver there car to a point where they need higher quality fuel. If you think this is the case ask your self why mappers bother with a 95/99 ron map for cars if it makes no odds what you use....

Iv always mapped my cars so ive always used vpower fuels, my last 335d was on 115k when i sold it and on the ports there was little to no carbon build up when i went to do the swirl flaps. With direct injection engines and EGR systems i think now more than ever its important to run a better/cleaner fuel

I brutalise my mapped 330d every day and I use Asda diesel exclusively, and have done for 100k miles. Don't know why you are bringing RON into a discussion about diesel? Increasing RON would allow a mapper to introduce greater ignition advance to a petrol engine, generally at high vacuum partial throttle.

[Panchoa]

Originally Posted by Watsey

I think he (and I) are interested in why you are using a petrol fuel additive with a diesel engine.

Doesn't seem to be a very good idea.

Why aren't you using fuel additives which are specifically intended for diesel engines ??

I have a petrol 540i and S5 mate

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by Panchoa

I have a petrol 540i and S5 mate

Ah, that's not what your sig says, hence the confusion.

[jackstrath]

Originally Posted by lethbridge

I've done 100ks of miles in 35ds. I've always used supermarket standard fuel and never had any issues at all - at the end of the day it all comes from the same refineries - at one stage I did put in additives (which as we know is all they do on premium diesel) but decided that was a waste of money too (and if I recall the fuel cap says "no additives") - after all, if supermarket fuel is as bad as some people make out then that's why I have a warranty. The most miles I put on a 35d was 115k on one I had DMS work their magic on - it sounded the same when I sold it as when I bought it. I guess if you are planning on running to 200k miles and beyond there may be a point in sticking an additive in now and again but given in the main diesels are driven by high mileage drivers I can't see why you would spend probably £300-£500 extra a year on Shell juice (super or standard) with no noticeable benefit other than feeling that your engine is loving it. Of course if you are a low mileage driver then a diesel is not the best choice of car and additives/premium fuel probably become more worthwhile (as the costs don't mount up) but then are you going to get your car to a mileage where it really starts to impact it? In terms of performance gains between fuels I would get it a little more if you were running a custom map designed for a specific Cetane which presumably could corrupt your cars ability to adjust to whatever you put in it (but I've not heard of that unlike petrol where some maps are design for specific octane). Aside from that power gains would be marginal and not noticeable except on timed laps (in my view).

100% correct, all base fuel comes from the refinery's the same, its when its loaded into the tanker the blends of additives are added. Asda has there own blend, Tesco another, Its these chemicals your paying for. I cant comment for the diesel but i know 100% that Vpower was the only fuel that didn't just use ethanol to bring there fuel up to a higher octain level. This is shown mainly by the M135/140 lot getting slightly better results on tescos fuel due to the higher ethanol count and for what ever reason the bmw's like that.

Originally Posted by 1966-TR4

I brutalise my mapped 330d every day and I use Asda diesel exclusively, and have done for 100k miles. Don't know why you are bringing RON into a discussion about diesel? Increasing RON would allow a mapper to introduce greater ignition advance to a petrol engine, generally at high vacuum partial throttle.

RON was used as a compassion due to there be way more petrol tuning going on than diesel, showing that there is a difference in fuel quality, for both petrol and diesel, and my assumption that very few will know what Cetane is, but use RON that im sure more people have heard off, and as they both measure the fuels combustion property's... sorta, it was an easier compassion... thats all nothing else

[thescouselander]

My previous car was a diesel which I ran almost exclusively on the expensive fuel - that didn't stop the intake coking up badly though. Whatever the Benet might be I'm highly sceptical it does anything to keep the engine cleaner.