[Ennoch]

In general I struggle to find any cars I'm interested in today even without looking at the price tags! I was musing earlier about what my ideal car from the last 20-30 years would be if it was available new today and reckon the likes of an Isuzu Trooper or a Discovery II would be pretty high on the list. No nonsense, minimal electronics and will do half a million miles without bother. Most stuff now is so superficial and overpriced that it just leaves me cold. Of course they're massively capable cars but they have about as much soul as a Bosch fridge, in the way that the imperfect girlfriend with lots of flaws leaves stronger memories and builds a better relationship than the 'perfect' one.

[SkyJawa]

My BIL just jacked in his 2015 L&K Octavia 150 diesel for a 2014 Jag XF Sportbrake 3.0dS Portfolio. It’s really nice. Think this is now the way forward than overpriced latest stuff!

[lethbridge]

Totally with you OP, BMW seem to be aiming at a different market now - which is fine for them but not for many of us that just don't buy into it - and like you say the investment in a BMW is getting into serious money now given the residual value the car will be worth in 3 or 4 years hasn't increased very much at all. I just dropped my M3 in for it's end of warranty checks and service - prime time for me to thinking about replacing it. While I was waiting for my X2 courtesy car (case in point - no need to say anymore) I suddenly thought I hadn't noticed if they had an M3 in the showroom just to see if it isn't as bad in person as many claim. On my way out I went looking for it and it turns out I'd walked straight past it - it was in some dull grey colour presumably specced to make it look less awful than a bright colour - I didn't waste time even slowing up to look at it... Enough said...

The drive back in the X2 was just dull with buckets of understeer - just an everyday safe mundane driving experience that I guess the average person wants - not what the brand used to represent...

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by lethbridge

Totally with you OP, BMW seem to be aiming at a different market now - which is fine for them but not for many of us that just don't buy into it - and like you say the investment in a BMW is getting into serious money now given the residual value the car will be worth in 3 or 4 years hasn't increased very much at all. I just dropped my M3 in for it's end of warranty checks and service - prime time for me to thinking about replacing it. While I was waiting for my X2 courtesy car (case in point - no need to say anymore) I suddenly thought I hadn't noticed if they had an M3 in the showroom just to see if it isn't as bad in person as many claim. On my way out I went looking for it and it turns out I'd walked straight past it - it was in some dull grey colour presumably specced to make it look less awful than a bright colour - I didn't waste time even slowing up to look at it... Enough said...

The drive back in the X2 was just dull with buckets of understeer - just an everyday safe mundane driving experience that I guess the average person wants - not what the brand used to represent...

But BMW saw a 27% increase in sales of X series cars in 2019 over 2018. Maybe the general public want safe, fairly mundane cars that have a BMW badge on them and you still get the less mundane Ms and MLites for the enthusiast.

M£ specced in dull grey because every dealer had a bright green launch car and a bright yellow launch M4 that they struggled to sell, so now getting something less niche. And BMW love grey....

[Wills2]

I've ben really impressed with the G chassis cars I drove as loaners, I would say each one is a big step on from the F chassis they replaced, handle better feel better built and interiors way batter than before, they are more expensive and I decided not to continue and ran for the VW cheap seats, but I find it strange that some posters think the F chassis are better.

[g9icy]

Originally Posted by Wills2

I've ben really impressed with the G chassis cars I drove as loaners, I would say each one is a big step on from the F chassis they replaced, handle better feel better built and interiors way batter than before, they are more expensive and I decided not to continue and ran for the VW cheap seats, but I find it strange that some posters think the F chassis are better.

I found the Gwhatever 320d loaner I had looked pretty on the inside, but overall less ergonomic and everything you touch felt cheaper. And the steering wheel was comically thick, no idea what's going on there. Also the car felt too big when trying to enjoy it down a twisty.

So far my experience is that the F series chassis feels better... but maybe something more sorted like an M340i would change my mind.

[KRS_SN]

as someone who had an e90 320d then f 335d and had a friend who bought a g20 330d with adaptive dampers and I got a day with it, it was very refined yet sporty.
Interior had zero knocks rattles and little tyre/wind noise like the e series.
The F series kind of lost it as not very sporty not very comfortable not very good Interior but cheap/good to lease.
The G is a step up. The G hit the spot .
I'm not saying this to piss off F series owners (of which I am currently one too). The F was good in some aspects but the G is better. )

[stevei]

Order placed with Audi today.
Just waiting on a date now.

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

But BMW saw a 27% increase in sales of X series cars in 2019 over 2018. Maybe the general public want safe, fairly mundane cars that have a BMW badge on them and you still get the less mundane Ms and MLites for the enthusiast.

M£ specced in dull grey because every dealer had a bright green launch car and a bright yellow launch M4 that they struggled to sell, so now getting something less niche. And BMW love grey....

Don't we know it..

Apparently the next 5 will launch with 17 shades of grey..

[goodbyalfa]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

Don't we know it..

Apparently the next 5 will launch with 17 shades of grey..

I think it was 50 shades actually...

[stevei]

The most important question is tho.......

How does the B&O system compare to the H&K ?

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by stevei

The most important question is tho.......

How does the B&O system compare to the H&K ?

I've had B&O in my last 2 Audis and HK in the BMW in between them, I reckon the B&O is streets ahead but I am no audiophile and I dont play any clever formats (CDs in all bar the latest Audi where I have moved to spotify...)

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

I've had B&O in my last 2 Audis and HK in the BMW in between them, I reckon the B&O is streets ahead but I am no audiophile and I dont play any clever formats (CDs in all bar the latest Audi where I have moved to spotify...)

When she had her A1 Mrs JNW1 was given an A5 cabriolet as a courtesy car while hers was in for some warranty work; the A5 had the B&O sound system and it was massively better than the HK in the F31 335d I had at the time. I'm no audiophile either but even I could tell the difference!

[stevei]

I'm no audiophile either and I love the HK.
I mainly use Spotify and the hard drive in my F32.
What's the Spotify connection like with the Audi system?

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

I've had B&O in my last 2 Audis and HK in the BMW in between them, I reckon the B&O is streets ahead but I am no audiophile and I dont play any clever formats (CDs in all bar the latest Audi where I have moved to spotify...)

There is so much processing going on in these systems now (that you cannot change) that it is truly hard to know quite how good/bad any system is at a base level... They reckon that they now can map the systems to the car's interior... but then if you take an aurally pure digital file and process the crap out of it, it will never sound like the performer heard it anyway...

I reckon, in a car interior, you are looking for the least displeasing outcome...

It's like adding salt/sugar into processed food... It's food, and it is designed to suit your palette, but it is not really how it tastes when raw...

I noticed this in the 1 series with base hifi and how the FM and DAB broadcasts sounded, with the DAB sounding more punchy... and there is no way a base DAB broadcast would touch FM for quality without processing...

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

I've had B&O in my last 2 Audis and HK in the BMW in between them, I reckon the B&O is streets ahead but I am no audiophile and I dont play any clever formats (CDs in all bar the latest Audi where I have moved to spotify...)

Different brands, but the Meridian systems in any of the LRs I have driven were streets ahead of HK - I'm referring to the standard systems in the 300w range. Similarly, JBL in a Highlander much, much better than the HK on my old 4-er, or in a X5/7.

Not sure why it should be, but it seems that the BMW really lag other manufacturers in this regard.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by DaveA

I reckon, in a car interior, you are looking for the least displeasing outcome...

Definitely - I think a genuine HiFi buff would say achieving top quality sound in a car is difficult bordering impossible.

That said I do think there's a noticeable difference between systems - the standard set-up in BMW's is pretty awful (or at least it was the last time I experienced one) but for me HK is acceptable. The B&O in the Audi seemed a genuine step-up from that though....

[g9icy]

There's a lot of variables to consider when looking at audio quality.

Most systems will artificially boost some frequency range or another to make it sound better for particular genres of music. Usually configured for pop music.

HK is quite "un modified" so compared to other systems, it's very "flat", but it does give you an EQ you can tinker with to make up for it, which I appreciate.

Factor on top of that, the fact that Bluetooth is absolutely dreadful for music thanks to lossy compression, and the fact that the device you're playing music from will also have its own EQ modifying the sound as well, AND add on top that the source audio data rate, it all adds up to a mess.

As a test I once played the same music over bluetooth and connected by USB, and there was a very noticeable difference in the quality of the audio, with USB being much better.

There's a similar situation with headphone manufacturers, with Sennheiser being the most "pure" sound, which most people will find completely lacking in bass, and opt for the heavily modified sound of Bose instead. But purists prefer the Sennheisers as they're closer to what the original audio was intended to be.

I won't defend HK too much though, I think the frequency range is too narrow considering its a paid option!

[Sennen]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Different brands, but the Meridian systems in any of the LRs I have driven were streets ahead of HK - I'm referring to the standard systems in the 300w range. Similarly, JBL in a Highlander much, much better than the HK on my old 4-er, or in a X5/7.

Not sure why it should be, but it seems that the BMW really lag other manufacturers in this regard.

I agree the B&O system in my wifes TTS was slightly better than the HK in the M2 but the set up in the Range Rover was streets ahead of both of then, not sure we should expect little else at that price point though.

[KCH1984]

I've had HK in the F30 and F15 and it's acceptable, but nothing more. The B&O in my Dads A4 was definitely better but none of these systems come close to the Mark Levinson system he had in a Lexus IS a few years back. Genuinely impressive and much better than anything I'd heard until then and since. My judgment is now clouded with fond memories probably, but will be interesting to hear how the B&W stacks up against that in my incoming G05 when I get it.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Sennen

I agree the B&O system in my wifes TTS was slightly better than the HK in the M2 but the set up in the Range Rover was streets ahead of both of then, not sure we should expect little else at that price point though.

I think your FFRR would have had Meridian Surround - 800w+ and standard in that, but optional elsewhere in the range (I have it and it's the best of 3 different systems offered in the Discovery, in a RRS it's only standard in the Autobiography).

But the standard Meridian, which is around 350w, I have had that in loan RRS, Discovery and Defender and it's really excellent. There is also a basic 250w unbranded system in the basic Disco, which I borrowed when I still had my 440i, and that had a much nicer sound to it than the HK.

Allowing for the fact that we all have different ears and tastes of course. This is just how I found it.

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Definitely - I think a genuine HiFi buff would say achieving top quality sound in a car is difficult bordering impossible.

That said I do think there's a noticeable difference between systems - the standard set-up in BMW's is pretty awful (or at least it was the last time I experienced one) but for me HK is acceptable. The B&O in the Audi seemed a genuine step-up from that though....

Yes, sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that some sound better than others to the ear when using them, just that they really are not much of an authentic a listening experience given the amount of DSP applied...

In a car, I look for something you can balance up and not have too much processing (I turned off DSP on HK in my F30's) and not get too enthusiastic about pumping out bass and treble (and if you can roll off the mids at the same time, sounds better to my ears)...

I tried the standard setup in the 1 series and it's not bad, but don't expect it to be rattling the windows and still sound "good"... But, to me, music in a car is background at best (just listening to old faves) because I find it too distracting otherwise nowadays (I have it turned off at least half the time these days, especially on unknown roads and areas)... If I want to "listen" to music I have my home setups (the one in the living room being the one I tweak and play with more than the cars... 😂 )...

Just like some processed food tastes better than others... some we have grown to associate with the "taste" of the ingredient (baked beans, perhaps?), or have grown to like, of course... but all of it tends to taste somewhat different to home made... and uses salt and sugar for cheap kicks in "taste"...