[Pequin]

Originally Posted by Russbmw

No point in trying to do anything about it now, as they'll no doubt charge you an admin fee (again....I'd guess) for changing the policy detail again.

I disagree, if they have made an error and over loaded for the grill, not spoiler, it is their error and as such should reduce the premium with no charge.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by oxfordrob

It's not the cost of the parts I particularly care about. sure I could replace them, as like you say not huge amounts....it's more the risk of a lack of payout of I total the car and they then say I am not insured because of X part or y part that wasn't declared! So they refuse to pay out completely by saying it was beyond their insured spec!

I have never heard of that. They should replace it with OEM components, even if you have aftermarket in place. Normally you declare aftermarket parts if you want them covered.

You're really saying that if you got in an accident and had black grilles, they wouldn't fix your car?

[xpro]

It would be hard enough to tell if a car had ACS springs. They look black, same as OE and tnh most dealers are clueless.

For the insurance, I suggest you change the provider.

ACS springs are approved by BMW and when I notified my insurance I was told once they are approved part or fitted by an approved garage, there will be no loading of premium.

The grills are cosmetic, and you were incorrectly charged for a front spoiler which I guess you dont have. So with insurance companies its all about technicalities, and they could also say you've declared a front spoiler but you dont have it.. Sorry no cover for you!

Get onto them and demand your refund.

Insurance vultures would charge you for wearing different jeans every day if they could.

[doncarlyon]

I've worked in and around the insurance industry for over 15years.

There are some very odd opinions on here of what would and wouldn't happen in the event of a claim.

Insurers often have many different schemes. Some wont accept a modification at all... none. Others will allow mods, possibly charge for the additional risk and write into the terms that only OEM parts will be used in the event of a repair. Others will fully accept modifications and cover them on a like for like basis.

In the case of the grille 'mod'... the insurer probably has modification categories. They then add a mod as the closest match.

As far as voiding a policy due to undeclared mods, this does happen. It is quite rare. Usually the insurers will re-process the policy with the mods and if acceptable, charge you the additional that you should have been paying anyway. If not acceptable they are well within their rights to void the policy as the risk is not the same risk they were insuring.

[billshoreham]

I am taking my 335d into Chandlers BMW on Tuesday next. Rang my insurers (Directline) before I booked it in and they said no extra charge.

[Russbmw]

Originally Posted by Pequin

I disagree, if they have made an error and over loaded for the grill, not spoiler, it is their error and as such should reduce the premium with no charge.

Yeah well, I wish the op luck with that.

Personally I would have disputed it there and then.

[Russbmw]

Originally Posted by oxfordrob

It's not the cost of the parts I particularly care about. sure I could replace them, as like you say not huge amounts....it's more the risk of a lack of payout of I total the car and they then say I am not insured because of X part or y part that wasn't declared! So they refuse to pay out completely by saying it was beyond their insured spec!

If someone piles into your car through no fault of your own, or if you crash into someone, there is no way they'd be able to void your insurance over a set of grilles being a different colour. It's irrelevant to the situation.

I wonder how many people aren't running the same tyres their car left the factory with, because they could say anything else is substandard and contributed to the accident (far fetched, I appreciate, but just an example).

If your car got nicked, they might try their luck, but again if it came to legal proceedings I highly doubt they be able to make it stand up that an entire car was stolen because someone fancied a pair of standard (albeit not on your car from the factory) bmw part £50 grilles.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Russbmw

If someone piles into your car through no fault of your own, or if you crash into someone, there is no way they'd be able to void your insurance over a set of grilles being a different colour. It's irrelevant to the situation.

I wonder how many people aren't running the same tyres their car left the factory with, because they could say anything else is substandard and contributed to the accident (far fetched, I appreciate, but just an example).

If your car got nicked, they might try their luck, but again if it came to legal proceedings I highly doubt they be able to make it stand up that an entire car was stolen because someone fancied a pair of standard (albeit not on your car from the factory) bmw part £50 grilles.

As someone else who deals with insurance at work (about £2m annual fee..) there is something called the Insurance Act which says that you will tell them all that is relevant to the best of your ability or something. If they say "any mods" and you say "no" when there is then you have failed in your duty and they can probably do what the hell they like - obviously being mindful of any bad publicity that may ensue.......

In legal proceedings, because of the above, it is highly likely that they would win....

From the gocompare website...

An insurer won’t pay out if you’re found to have provided information that’s incorrect or untruthful.

And while you may not be a fervent modifying enthusiast, the term ‘modifications’ can apply to things as seemingly innocuous as upgraded alloy wheels or a non-standard paint colour – or even things like roof racks and towbars.

For the sake of belt-and-braces, you should contact your insurer when you change anything on your car (or if you buy a car which has already been modified) and check that everything’s within the policy cover.

Did you know...?
Roof racks and towbars may be classed as modifications by insurers and should be declared
Some insurers are happy to accept modifications – indeed, certain insurers only deal in modded cars – but others won’t accept them, and your policy will therefore be invalid.

A spokesperson for Adrian Flux Insurance said, “Failing to disclose your full details, including any non-standard modifications, is seen as fraud in the eyes of insurers and they will decline claims for your damage if, with the correct details, they would not accept you as a risk.

"In extreme cases, they can sue you for fraud should their third party losses be large. It’s not worth it. It’s important to simply enter your correct information.”

[Russbmw]

Looks like the insurance company of the OP have well and truly fucked themselves on that basis.

Just playing devils advocate on this really, seeing as you obviously have some knoweldedge of how things work - lets say you're not a BMW nerd like most of us on here, and you buy a used BMW form a dealer or privately, and it has the (standard BMW) black grilles instead of the (standard) BMW silver ones fitted, how would you as the owner know if they'd be retrofitted or not? You wouldn't, surely?

All parts are BMW parts - nothing else on it appears to be any different? You could never be proven to be deliberately giving false information, could you? I mean, if the grilles were bright pink or something, then that's pretty obvious to anyone.

I often wonder about remaps on used cars, because how would you ever know really? I bet there's loads of remapped cars out there now where the 3rd of 4th owners have no idea.

If it's a car you've owned from new then that's a different ballgame of course.

So when you're asked on the recorded phonecall "is your car modified" and to all intents and purposes when you or anyone else is looking at it, it looks standard with no obvious aftermarket bits stuck on , then you're not deliberately misleading anyone i fyou reply with "just bought the car actually and no, all looks standard to me and the previous owner didn't mention anything, nor is there anything in the history/paperwork to suggest anything's been modified"

I'm not for a minute suggesting anyone lie deliberately about it of course, but the minute detail of what insurance consider "modifications" is not something the average Joe would reasonably be expected to know having just bought a used car with a few previous owners.

When I've had modified cars, I have always told the insurance people, but they've usually been fairly sensible conversations describing what has been changed, and most of the time it's been recorded but hasn't actually cost any more - just ocassionally had the caveat of "that's fine, but we'll only replace that bit with a standard bit if we have to" - such as changing the regular headlights on my old e39 for the newer BMW angel eye/projector type ones of the newer cars, or the rear lights on the e46 to newer BMW LED ones - both of which cost me no more money on my insurance as they were still standard/OEM parts. Hence, why I think the OP is having his pants pulled down over some poxy grilles.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Russbmw

Looks like the insurance company of the OP have well and truly fucked themselves on that basis.

Just playing devils advocate on this really, seeing as you obviously have some knoweldedge of how things work - lets say you're not a BMW nerd like most of us on here, and you buy a used BMW form a dealer or privately, and it has the (standard BMW) black grilles instead of the (standard) BMW silver ones fitted, how would you as the owner know if they'd be retrofitted or not? You wouldn't, surely?

All parts are BMW parts - nothing else on it appears to be any different? You could never be proven to be deliberately giving false information, could you? I mean, if the grilles were bright pink or something, then that's pretty obvious to anyone.

I often wonder about remaps on used cars, because how would you ever know really? I bet there's loads of remapped cars out there now where the 3rd of 4th owners have no idea.

If it's a car you've owned from new then that's a different ballgame of course.

So when you're asked on the recorded phonecall "is your car modified" and to all intents and purposes when you or anyone else is looking at it, it looks standard with no obvious aftermarket bits stuck on , then you're not deliberately misleading anyone i fyou reply with "just bought the car actually and no, all looks standard to me and the previous owner didn't mention anything, nor is there anything in the history/paperwork to suggest anything's been modified"

I'm not for a minute suggesting anyone lie deliberately about it of course, but the minute detail of what insurance consider "modifications" is not something the average Joe would reasonably be expected to know having just bought a used car with a few previous owners.

When I've had modified cars, I have always told the insurance people, but they've usually been fairly sensible conversations describing what has been changed, and most of the time it's been recorded but hasn't actually cost any more - just ocassionally had the caveat of "that's fine, but we'll only replace that bit with a standard bit if we have to" - such as changing the regular headlights on my old e39 for the newer BMW angel eye/projector type ones of the newer cars, or the rear lights on the e46 to newer BMW LED ones - both of which cost me no more money on my insurance as they were still standard/OEM parts. Hence, why I think the OP is having his pants pulled down over some poxy grilles.

All very valid points. I think the get out on the first one is the old saying that insurance is undertaken in utmost good faith - so if you tell them to best of your knowledge and you turn out to be wrong then they will honour it, but if you knew (or maybe should have known) then you will be on the back foot.

I also dont think a grill change is a modification really and they are taking the p*ss - but I can see why you would tell them and I can see why they take the opportunity to fleece a customer, that's what they seem to do with the paying public. Now we have jockey cover (valet parking) with a cap at £250k - when an excited GM rang up one day to say they were being asked to park a £400k Ferrari,a quick call got cover extended and no additional premium...

[Wills2]

I think anything that isn't OEM and you're asking for trouble should the worst happen i.e. exhausts/remaps/replica wheels/tyres that are out of spec width as an example/aftermarket spoilers etc..

Lets just say one of your replica wheels fails and you crash and hurt someone, I wouldn't want to be the guy that didn't declare that mod. However a set of BMW replacement grilles no I wouldn't declare them it's like buying a set of BMW rubber mats or a luggage net for the boot, which reminds me I'd like one for my car and I will not be declaring it as a mod.

[AyrshireColin]

Guys regarding insurance being void. It happened to me, so believe me it certainly happens!

In my situation I was 18 and had a Fiesta Zetec S. I took a corner like a tit and lost it resulting in me ending up in someone’s front garden.....I’d took their garden wall out to get there. Car was recovered and taken for repair. I got a call a few days later saying that my insurance was void due to undeclared modifications of the car (they called me out on the wheels), I was told I had 2 days to collect the car from the accident repair center and beyond that I was liable for ‘storage costs’.

Insurance paid to get the third party’s wall rebuilt and I sold the car on for £2,800 with £6,200 in outstanding finance.

In this instance given what the ‘mods’ are and it’s AUC I think you’d be totally fine had you not said a word. Seemingly the issue in my case was that the accident repair guys weren’t intending to put me in the sh*t but that they couldn’t get the wheels from any of their vendors so flagged up to the insurance.

[dizzy619]

If you have paid to insure a front spoiler.. You might as well fit one then...

[SteveChester]

Approved checks?? You mean they probably kicked the tyres.

Having to pay anything because you changed the grilles is a joke - it's an irrelevant change.

[Pequin]

Originally Posted by SteveChester

Approved checks?? You mean they probably kicked the tyres.

Having to pay anything because you changed the grilles is a joke - it's an irrelevant change.

Absolutely agree, for one, I would never let them know that I use Audi screen wash!

[oxfordrob]

So, after contacting BMW (not looking for freebies and money off etc), I got them to confirm that if there is a spring failure, even if the warranty team don't cover it, the used sales department will, for the length of the approved used warranty.

They told me to keep hold of the email as proof of this agreement with them.

So for me, that's piece of mind for the year and understand that BMW normal warranty don't cover AC Schnitzer items, as understandably a 3rd party, no matter how close the affiliation.

As for insurance (LV), the quote I took out, even with the subsequent modification and their bend over and take it costs....still comes out suitably cheaper than elsewhere. Once I've owned it for a year, I'll be able to move the a more sympathetic insurer for mods and hopefully a decent price to boot!

On the plus side, Looking at splitters now, as figure I am paying for that 'front spoiler' may as well get one!

[kern417]

I mean i could understand insurance cancelling your coverage because of something that is regulated. Tints too dark. Aftermarket headlights/tail lights, etc. But not grilles and springs. It just sounds like they took OP to town because he was willing and able.

I've only been in one accident with a modified car and no questions were asked. It had coilovers, full bolts ons, tinted tail lights, and other items. But it may have been a smoother transaction since we agreed I'd buy it back (to part it out).