[aps]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Yeah the throttle closures look to be directly due to the boost and load control - MHD is very sensitive to exceeding boost target, even by a fraction of a pound. You are also basically touching load target. It's possible it will adapt, but i am not sure how much PWG WG adaptation there is.

I may be oversimplifying and this is probably going to be a dumb question, but if what you're saying is true, then isn't BM3 going to be better at tuning PWG with PS2 upgrade?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by aps

I may be oversimplifying and this is probably going to be a dumb question, but if what you're saying is true, then isn't BM3 going to be better at tuning PWG with PS2 upgrade?

Um, if by "better" you mean "allows for some overboost without throttle closure"? Some people would consider that worse...

It's just the nature of how the MHD OTS tunes are setup versus how BM3 OTS tunes are setup. MHD doesn't intentionally overboost nor does it allow overboost without some throttle closure intervention. You can also substitute "exceed load target" for overboost in that sentence. In contrast BM3 OTS maps allow and even intentionally overboost in the lower RPM without throttle closure. At least for EWG for sure. Need to look at BM3 PWG logs to confirm.

But in any case it doesnt mean one is better than the other for tuning PWG - that would imply one is better at actually controlling the boost, not simply allowing it to overboost without throttle closure. I am sure the MHD behavior could be adjusted with a custom tune if so desired

[aps]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Um, if by "better" you mean "allows for some overboost without throttle closure"? Some people would consider that worse...

It's just the nature of how the MHD OTS tunes are setup versus how BM3 OTS tunes are setup. MHD doesn't intentionally overboost nor does it allow overboost without some throttle closure intervention. You can also substitute "exceed load target" for overboost in that sentence. In contrast BM3 OTS maps allow and even intentionally overboost in the lower RPM without throttle closure. At least for EWG for sure. Need to look at BM3 PWG logs to confirm.

But in any case it doesnt mean one is better than the other for tuning PWG - that would imply one is better at actually controlling the boost, not simply allowing it to overboost without throttle closure. I am sure the MHD behavior could be adjusted with a custom tune if so desired

Sorry - still learning, very new to understanding all of this. I guess I meant that by BM3 allowing some overboost, there might be more flexibility to create a smoother tune rather than a tune with tons of throttle closure immediately when you exceed load target. Maybe I am not thinking about this correctly.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by aps

Sorry - still learning, very new to understanding all of this. I guess I meant that by BM3 allowing some overboost, there might be more flexibility to create a smoother tune rather than a tune with tons of throttle closure immediately when you exceed load target. Maybe I am not thinking about this correctly.

No need to apologize! I didn't mean to be critical just clarifying what you were asking.

I think the key thing here is this is just default OTS map behavior on MHD/BM3. It doesn't mean you can get a tune with different behavior, such as decreased sensitivity to overboost or raised overboost thresholds. The whole 'exceeding load target' aspects is not really relevant to BM3 in the first place since they aren't tuning based on that. And again, some people might want that stock-like overboost/overload protection in place, even if it means getting some throttle closure at times. From my experience these small throttle closures in MHD are imperceptible in the car, and you dont even realize it until you see the log.

[harkes]

Originally Posted by aps

Sorry - still learning, very new to understanding all of this. I guess I meant that by BM3 allowing some overboost, there might be more flexibility to create a smoother tune rather than a tune with tons of throttle closure immediately when you exceed load target. Maybe I am not thinking about this correctly.

Even with the throttle closures the car feels butter smooth. Cannot feel it at all. This is supported by how smooth "load actual ram" is which is a direct expression of the work/load exerted by the engine.

My personal opinion is that a target is there to be matched - not exceeded. Another way looking at it is that, if targets are exceeded then some safety measures must have been relaxed to some extend. When I ran BM3 2H i sometimes saw 23psi with a target of 18 - WITHOUT throttle closures. That was the direct reason for my switch to MHD. Now 2 years later it seems that this is still the preferred strategy.

[harkes]

Originally Posted by aps

Sorry - still learning, very new to understanding all of this. I guess I meant that by BM3 allowing some overboost, there might be more flexibility to create a smoother tune rather than a tune with tons of throttle closure immediately when you exceed load target. Maybe I am not thinking about this correctly.

If you dont care much about logs and how your car is actually performing then I think you will be happy with either. I prefer a tune with throttle closures and factory safety features whee load targeting is working.

PS: Here we are ONLY talking about the OTS maps. With a custom tune it is all up to the tuner what approach he want to take.

[akgambino]

Originally Posted by harkes

If you dont care much about logs and how your car is actually performing then I think you will be happy with either. I prefer a tune with throttle closures and factory safety features whee load targeting is working.

PS: Here we are ONLY talking about the OTS maps. With a custom tune it is all up to the tuner what approach he want to take.

Don't be so critical of BM3 just because of your apparent issues from 2 years ago. It is clear you have been having your car tuned by countless different tuners for the past 4 years and always have some gripe whether it's mhd or bm3.

Also, the bm3 ots maps have evolved a lot in the last two years since this guy decided to start trying out mhd.

Also, some of these posts make it sound like bm3 is somehow completely unsafe and allows crazy overboost that can damage your car. This is untrue. Sounds more to me like a couple mhd fanboys trying to see who can sound smarter.

[harkes]

Originally Posted by akgambino

Don't be so critical of BM3 just because of your apparent issues from 2 years ago. It is clear you have been having your car tuned by countless different tuners for the past 4 years and always have some gripe whether it's mhd or bm3.

Also, the bm3 ots maps have evolved a lot in the last two years since this guy decided to start trying out mhd.

Also, some of these posts make it sound like bm3 is somehow completely unsafe and allows crazy overboost that can damage your car. This is untrue. Sounds more to me like a couple mhd fanboys trying to see who can sound smarter.

Definitely hope BM3 had gotten better! Don't care what he end up choosing, just sharing personal and outdated experience.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by akgambino

Don't be so critical of BM3 just because of your apparent issues from 2 years ago. It is clear you have been having your car tuned by countless different tuners for the past 4 years and always have some gripe whether it's mhd or bm3.

Also, the bm3 ots maps have evolved a lot in the last two years since this guy decided to start trying out mhd.

Also, some of these posts make it sound like bm3 is somehow completely unsafe and allows crazy overboost that can damage your car. This is untrue. Sounds more to me like a couple mhd fanboys trying to see who can sound smarter.

Not sure if you are referring to me here but I've only stated facts and never said one tune is better than another or that BM3 is unsafe in any way. Only provided objective information for anyone reading to make their own informed decision about the way any given tune is going to behave.

[Rodesch08]

This has been super useful. Thanks for all of the input!
I think I am going to go with MHD.

The idea of tunes that are tuned based off of load vs boost makes me feel better.

[harkes]

Originally Posted by Rodesch08

This has been super useful. Thanks for all of the input!
I think I am going to go with MHD.

The idea of tunes that are tuned based off of load vs boost makes me feel better.

Share some logs if you do. Always interesting to see

[Bowenpuref3p]

Originally Posted by harkes

Go with MHD. BM3 is not a proper load based tune. It is rather unrefined compared to MHD.

I was one of the very early (2016) adopters of BM3 and tested many things for them but PWG just never worked well. Switched to MHD early 2018.

Important note: PWG for F-series is EXTREMELY (!!!) difficult to work with if you upgrade the turbo. I tried three high profile tuners before I found one that could tune my car properly.

Which tuner that got it working well did you use? I'm currently researching custom tuning options right now for my pwg ps2 powered 335. I'm looking at wedge, twisted tuning and pure boost so far any other options?

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by Bowenpuref3p

Which tuner that got it working well did you use? I'm currently researching custom tuning options right now for my pwg ps2 powered 335. I'm looking at wedge, twisted tuning and pure boost so far any other options?

I'm leaning toward Fabian (Pureboost) for a safe tune... seems others just maxes targets...

[harkes]

Originally Posted by Bowenpuref3p

Which tuner that got it working well did you use? I'm currently researching custom tuning options right now for my pwg ps2 powered 335. I'm looking at wedge, twisted tuning and pure boost so far any other options?

Go with Fabian or David Shoup. I heard that David has specialised in PWG and has some good results. Might be more convenient if you are in the States.

[yoandry]

Originally Posted by akgambino

Don't be so critical of BM3 just because of your apparent issues from 2 years ago. It is clear you have been having your car tuned by countless different tuners for the past 4 years and always have some gripe whether it's mhd or bm3.

Also, the bm3 ots maps have evolved a lot in the last two years since this guy decided to start trying out mhd.

Also, some of these posts make it sound like bm3 is somehow completely unsafe and allows crazy overboost that can damage your car. This is untrue. Sounds more to me like a couple mhd fanboys trying to see who can sound smarter.

Seems like you are the the BM3 fanboy or reseller here.

[akgambino]

Originally Posted by yoandry

Seems like you are the the BM3 fanboy or reseller here.

No just setting out some facts that the guy basically saying bm3 will blow your car up and is only for people who don't log or care about their car and how it runs is wrong and he has been struggling to get his car dialed in by countless tuners on various platforms for years and his experience probably shouldn't be what makes someone in this thread choose one tuning platform over another.

[Munchi435i]

Originally Posted by akgambino

No just setting out some facts that the guy basically saying bm3 will blow your car up and is only for people who don't log or care about their car and how it runs is wrong and he has been struggling to get his car dialed in by countless tuners on various platforms for years and his experience probably shouldn't be what makes someone in this thread choose one tuning platform over another.

Thats one looooooong sentence lol. Grammer nazi here 😆

[akgambino]

Originally Posted by Munchi435i

Thats one looooooong sentence lol. Grammer nazi here 😆

😂

[Fresaszmike]

Hey I’ve been following your responses on many different platforms regarding the n55 pwg. Just wanted to know if the upgraded ps2 turbo helped with boost in the high rpms as the stock pwg obviously can’t hang

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Fresaszmike

Hey I’ve been following your responses on many different platforms regarding the n55 pwg. Just wanted to know if the upgraded ps2 turbo helped with boost in the high rpms as the stock pwg obviously can’t hang

Yes...

[n55david]

Originally Posted by Fresaszmike

Hey I’ve been following your responses on many different platforms regarding the n55 pwg. Just wanted to know if the upgraded ps2 turbo helped with boost in the high rpms as the stock pwg obviously can’t hang

You replied to a 2yo post to say that? What? Please God don't be another scammer about to post in the for sale groups.