[Stopsign32v]

Still debating the 6MT vs 8AT. How much slower are they? The ZF really keeps the revs high, almost rivals the performance of the newer 10 speeds.

[amw896]

less than half a second to 60 and quarter mile. Basically meaningless unless you race professionally but if you did this probably wouldn't be the greatest platform to begin with.

[Martin.328]

I have a 6mt and its not the best. Alot of rev hang and awkward 1 to 2. But i love it. I have a 328 zf and its snappier more responsive around town. But I love driving manual and in spirited driving its pretty rewarding. U cant go wrong with the zf. If u are planning on 1/4 mile then zf is the way to go. No need to worry about the ckutch which wont last more than 4 consecutive launches.

[mbanks21]

Don't care. I want to have control of what gear/rpm I'm in

[cfm56d7b]

There was a time when I felt the need to control every aspect of gear changes. Not any more. ZF automatic transmission does its job perfectly while giving the driver more time to focus on other things.

[upsidedownfunnel]

I think you're asking the wrong question. The right question is how much more fun is the 6MT? It's about 65% more fun.

Unless you're tracking the car, does it really matter if it's slightly slower? If you're looking for a drag car, then you'll want the auto. Actually, if 0-60 and 1/4mi are top priorities to you, you should be looking at a Mustang or Camaro. Both 6th gen cars are pretty good driver's cars now if you can live with the interior.

Also, there's not much benefit going from a ZF 8HP to something like GM/Ford's 10 speed. There's a certain point where extra shifting negate any gear spread benefits. I'm not sure if it's tuning or whatnot, but the ZF 8HP feels more aggressive and sharp.

[amw896]

Originally Posted by Martin.328

I have a 6mt and its not the best. Alot of rev hang and awkward 1 to 2. But i love it. I have a 328 zf and its snappier more responsive around town. But I love driving manual and in spirited driving its pretty rewarding. U cant go wrong with the zf. If u are planning on 1/4 mile then zf is the way to go. No need to worry about the ckutch which wont last more than 4 consecutive launches.

I dont notice any rev hang on my 235 6spd. Are you referring to the n55 or the 4cyl? The transmissions are completely different.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by amw896

I dont notice any rev hang on my 235 6spd. Are you referring to the n55 or the 4cyl? The transmissions are completely different.

I don't notice any rev hang at all with my M235 6MT either.

Overall, the 6MT cars are about .3 seconds and 1-2 mph slower in the 1/4 mile than their 8AT counterparts. The autos can brake boost on launch and don't lose any boost on shifts. They also have more ideal gearing. The electronic wastegate equipped 6MTs and their DME's use some wizardy to maintain some boost on shifts assuming you keep the revs above 6000rpms and are full throttle.

The 6MTs tend to feel quicker and faster because the autos as there is a lot more drama on the launch and shifts. The 8AT executes lightning fast shifts, almost to the point that you don't feel much in the way of shift shock. I find it almost CVT-like.

If you care about 1/4 mile racing, are racing the car competitively, or want to get the most out of these motors, then the 8AT is the only way to go. If you want to be fully connected to the car, have full control of the shifting, and really enjoy "driving" then the 6MT is the only answer.

If you get a 6MT, the Ultimate Clutch Pedal (UCP) and a catted downpipe should be high on your list. The UCP greatly changes the clutch pedal feel and weight and the catted downpipe improves throttle response, rev matching, and the 1-2 shift smoothness during normal driving.

[neonnblack]

6mt will hold more power. Which is the only reason i went with it over the 8at.

[Stopsign32v]

Originally Posted by neonnblack

6mt will hold more power. Which is the only reason i went with it over the 8at.

Has anyone broke a ZF8 from power?

[quikM2]

If you are semi proficient with a 6MT you won't notice anything. If you are asking this question the manual is probably not a must for you in which case it doesn't really matter what you get. for a lot of us on here the experience of a 6MT especially with it being a dying breed makes it that much more engaging and valuable. If you suck at shifting or want to be able to go WOT with a coffee mug in your hand the 8AT is for you.

[B58 parts]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I don't notice any rev hang at all with my M235 6MT either.

Overall, the 6MT cars are about .3 seconds and 1-2 mph slower in the 1/4 mile than their 8AT counterparts. The autos can brake boost on launch and don't lose any boost on shifts. They also have more ideal gearing. The electronic wastegate equipped 6MTs and their DME's use some wizardy to maintain some boost on shifts assuming you keep the revs above 6000rpms and are full throttle.

The 6MTs tend to feel quicker and faster because the autos as there is a lot more drama on the launch and shifts. The 8AT executes lightning fast shifts, almost to the point that you don't feel much in the way of shift shock. I find it almost CVT-like.

If you care about 1/4 mile racing, are racing the car competitively, or want to get the most out of these motors, then the 8AT is the only way to go. If you want to be fully connected to the car, have full control of the shifting, and really enjoy "driving" then the 6MT is the only answer.

If you get a 6MT, the Ultimate Clutch Pedal (UCP) and a catted downpipe should be high on your list. The UCP greatly changes the clutch pedal feel and weight and the catted downpipe improves throttle response, rev matching, and the 1-2 shift smoothness during normal driving.

The UCP is actually very nice. I would say it's worth the money. And delete the CDV as well so you can feel the disc instead of it having a mind of its own. With those 2 mods the gear box is quite good around town. The pedal now sits even with the brake which for such a small thing makes a huge difference.

Better throttle response would be good .. so I hear you on the downpipe. You tell me which one to get and I'll probably buy it. I haven't been able to settle on one.


As far as the standard being stronger than the auto in this case ... I've never heard that, usually it is quite the opposite. Please provide some details.

[neonnblack]

Originally Posted by Stopsign32v

Has anyone broke a ZF8 from power?

Not that i recall when i was researching before purchase, but the max rated torque was pretty low comparatively. Plus multiple threads bringing up trans slipping on the 8 with power upgrades.

[neonnblack]

And this was just casual research on the forums.

[TEST DRYVER]

My answer would be, "who cares?" The ZF is one of the Best automatic transmissions I've ever driven, and I have driven numerous sports cars, exotics, modified performance, etc... I'm not one to rave about an automatic, if you know me, which obviously nobody here really does. I'm a Die Hard manual transmission guy! I work for Porsche, so I'm spoiled by driving around cars with the best automated manual transmission to date. The PDK is second to none, at least not today. I don't believe there's a single brand that has a better single or dual clutch automated manual. In my humble opinion, the DCT doesn't come close to a PDK. The second best rated automated manual is the latest F1 transmission from Ferrari, followed by S-Tronic and DSG by Audi/VW. Then you have McLaren and Lamborghini fighting for the next position, then the DCT.
ALL my gibberish aside, I would love my wife's F30 N55 EWG to have a 6mt instead of the ZF. It was impractical and impossible in my circumstance. I taught my wife how to drive a manual about a year and a half ago when we placed an order for my 718 Cayman with a 6mt. So there's no way she's comfortable enough to drive a manual daily, especially with my 2 year old daughter an 10 year old step-son in the car. So it was a no brainer to opt for the ZF for our family car. Had this been my personal car, I would gladly take the "slower" 6mt over the ZF, even though the ZF really is amazing... We now have a manual 718 and an auto F30.
Your time to own and drive a proper manual transmission is coming to a near end. Especially as far as selection goes. More and more brands are deleting the manual option. My recommendation would be to get the manual, enjoy the drive, modify the car to your liking. It's not like it's a slow car, it will just be a bit slower than a ZF, but potentially more rewarding to drive...
I had a Steptronic in an E90 N54 a while back. To me, that transmission ruined what was a really fun engine. At least the ZF the transmission compliments the car...

[codestar]

I have a 6MT and wouldn't change it for anything. Yes, I do have a few gripes about this particular transmission, namely:

- Bad 1-2 synchro so had to get a new transmission under warranty (lucky)
- New transmission sometimes gets....stuck... halfway between N-1 and won't push into gear. I usually have to pump the clutch again and try the whole motion again. I've gotten used to it, but it's still annoying. Approx 10-20% of N-1 shifts. I tend to hold in gear when stopped now to not deal with it
- Definitely not as fast as the 8AT. Buddy has an 340i MP edition with the MPPSK, and even when I only had MPPK and nothing else it he still walked away from me like nothing. (Aware it was a combo of having B58 and also the 8AT but still)
- I can literally shift the gear lever faster than the entire clutch motion which is annoying and not smooth when I'm not focusing on it. My old K20 civic Si was the complete opposite, the faster I could move the lever the better

But the positives?

- One of the last BMW manuals, get it and enjoy it!!
- Theft deterrent (lol)
- The sweet sweet connection to the car
- At least in my area it's really quite unique to have a new 6MT Bimmer so that's nice
- 2-3, 3-4, 4-5 shifts are excellent
- Doing some twisty mountain/canyon driving and exectuing perfect timing on shifts to not be one-handing hairpin turns

All in all I've owned 6 manuals to date and loved every one of them, even with their quirks

[B58 parts]

Originally Posted by codestar

- New transmission sometimes gets....stuck... halfway between N-1 and won't push into gear. I usually have to pump the clutch again and try the whole motion again. I've gotten used to it, but it's still annoying. Approx 10-20% of N-1 shifts. I tend to hold in gear when stopped now to not deal with it

This is normal with any car. Always put the shifter in second before first. That stops everything from rotating so it will slide into first. Just like put it in 4th before reverse. Don't sit there holding the clutch in as that wears your thrust bearings.

[Zyler]

This is the first automatic car I have owned and I was hesitant about it at first since I thought it would be "less fun" but now I have no interest in going back to a manual. The ZF shifts are smooth and fast, rev matching is automatic, and for me its just overall more fun to drive. Plus I like having the option to either have less aggressive smooth shifts in comfort vs quicker more aggressive shifts in sport.

[Savageenterprise]

Originally Posted by Stopsign32v

Still debating the 6MT vs 8AT. How much slower are they? The ZF really keeps the revs high, almost rivals the performance of the newer 10 speeds.

In real life the difference is negligible. If this is your concern just get an automatic.... 0-60 and quarter mile times for production cars are so engineers can put them on paper and say look at me.

I'll lose 3/10 on my quarter mile to row my own gears and sleep like a baby

[XutvJet]

Do some research on this forum, the 1 series forum, the 2 series forum, and the M2/M3/M4 forums and take note how many threads and posts there are about people regretting getting the auto/DCT and not the 6MT. Most BMW "car guys" go with the auto/DCT because it's faster. After about a 6-12 months, that excitement wears off for many and they are willing to trade some performance for more driving engagement. You hardly ever find a post/thread about someone regretting the 6MT.

When I go to car meets and similar, people are constantly noting their approval that my M235 is a 6MT. That's telling of what most car people value.

The 6MT is not perfect, but there is no replacing that mechanical feel and connection. My gripes with the 6MT are the clutch pedal (primarily addressed with the UCP), the hard-to-make-smooth 1-2 shift (oddly, addressed with my catted downpipe), and an occasional 1st gear lockout (easily remedied by disengaging the clutch and going fully back into neutral).

I enjoy being able to skip shift. I enjoy being able to make my shifts hard or fast, rough or smooth. I enjoy being able to rev the car out to 4000rpms and slowly shift into the next gear so that I can thoroughly enjoy the exhaust note. The ZF8 is lightning quick on the shifts and doesn't allow for such driving. It shifts so quick that all you get is an exhaust burp/fart.

If I get an M2, it will be a 6MT. If I get a 911 or Cayman, it will be a 6MT. I'd be a sucker not go that route. I'm not concerned about being the fastest on the street or track.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by neonnblack

Not that i recall when i was researching before purchase, but the max rated torque was pretty low comparatively. Plus multiple threads bringing up trans slipping on the 8 with power upgrades.

I've read of a couple failed ZF8s on the 2 series forum and I do agree, usually the issue with the ZF8 is slippage in the higher gears when running a good bit more power. A re-manufactured ZF8 from BMW is around $9,000 not including install. A re-manufactured ZF 6MT with a new dual mass flywheel and clutch kit is around $5,000.

The ZF 6MT can reliably handle a lot of power assuming:

1) You've got an upgraded clutch
2) Single mass flywheel
3) Aren't ripping the shifts, especially the 1-2.

The ZF 6MT is robust, but it's 1-2 syncros don't appreciate you slamming the gears while sending a ton of torque torque through it. 1-2 syncro failures are pretty common, even in stock F series cars. BMW improved the 1-2 syncro on the ZF 6MT for use in M235/M2340, M2/M3/M4, but even then, there have been failures in stock cars.

I strongly recommend to anyone buying a 6MT to avoid slamming the 1-2 shift hard on a routine basis and if you do drive like that, make damn sure the tranny fluid is fully warm (15+ minutes of driving) before doing so.

[Stopsign32v]

Originally Posted by quikM2

If you are semi proficient with a 6MT you won't notice anything. If you are asking this question the manual is probably not a must for you in which case it doesn't really matter what you get. for a lot of us on here the experience of a 6MT especially with it being a dying breed makes it that much more engaging and valuable. If you suck at shifting or want to be able to go WOT with a coffee mug in your hand the 8AT is for you.

Proficient or not you are not going to be able to match the performance of a 8AT. If you think you can then you are just ignorant.

And I would put my manual transmission skills against yours any day.