04-18-2020, 12:41 PM | #23 |
New Member
12
Rep 25
Posts |
pump fuel
So just to be clear these are for E blends only?
I was under the impression you run out of tuning potential on pump 93oct/98ron before you run out of HPFP. And therefore to realise HP gains from the HPFP upgrade on a stock turbo E blends would be required, the extra fuel required being supplied by the HPFP upgrade. These numbers seem insane for stock turbo. Makes my 370whp (not dynojet) seem a little lack luster. |
Appreciate
0
|
04-18-2020, 01:41 PM | #24 |
Major
809
Rep 1,369
Posts |
God damn, I love the B58. I think we can safely say (albeit after a rocky couple years after its release), that the B58 is well ahead of the N54 regarding power potential on the stock turbo, and even further ahead from a reliability standpoint.
__________________
2017 M240i/ ZF8 Pure Drivetrain Solutions Stage 1 & torque converter/xHP/ DAW Ultra Flow/ DS2/ Nostrum injectors/ E40 Doug Newton tuned/ ER DP/ Remus axle back/ BMS intake/ FTP CP/ M Perf LSD
|
Appreciate
1
janea120728.50 |
04-19-2020, 06:07 AM | #25 | |
Cheapskate
4450
Rep 4,993
Posts |
Quote:
I think the main thing that n54 and N55 guys don't understand is upgrading the fuel pump on stock turbo will greatly improve the stock turbo's performance. But people are so used to looking at turbo upgrades before fueling upgrades. The B58 development trend is finally showing how important fuel and octane is. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-19-2020, 08:24 AM | #26 |
Lieutenant
120
Rep 410
Posts |
To get back to 93 for a moment. If I use 93 a better fuel pump won’t help me as I won’t get the stock one to the limit with with stock turbo.
So $1k would be better spend on a Pure 1 upgrade or a custom tune. |
Appreciate
0
|
04-19-2020, 12:23 PM | #27 |
Brigadier General
1161
Rep 3,189
Posts |
Very interested in this statement. I've seen people get 19-21psi on the stock turbo on E blends. Have you seen a log where someone ran this much boost on 93, even with 0 timing? How does increased rail pressure, when you aren't already low on rail pressure, help allow more timing/boost on 93?
|
04-20-2020, 06:04 AM | #28 | ||
Cheapskate
4450
Rep 4,993
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
The MHD dyno reads high, but if you pay attention to the delta they made 50hp with the fuel pump compared to their original STG 2 E30 map. So I don't see why 20-30 gain on 93 is out of the question. On most dynojets i'd bet it's ~440whp. The problem is the 20+psi stock turbo logs I've seen run very low timing for some reason. So they won't make much more power than OTS maps from MHD/BM3 that run less boost. A bigger turbo frees things up top, so you should be able to make even more power on 93 octane with the same pump with an upgraded turbo. ymmv. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
04-20-2020, 06:47 AM | #29 | |
Private First Class
61
Rep 106
Posts |
Quote:
When i ask Fabian Pureboost about this he says no gains on pump fuel only. There must add some e fuel to be gains.. I sold my hpfp again I will not go e-fuel on my car.
__________________
M140 Sunset Orange 2018. M719 Jet Black. Maxton sideskirts and spoiler, Ksb front splitter, RK Tuning diffuser, TPI spacers, MHD Stage 2, Xhp stage 3 , Wagner 300 cell cat, MPE silencer , Quaife LSD.
Supra pump and OTS E30, Spool ethanol analyzer (E35) https://theone1973.imgbb.com/ |
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-20-2020, 07:42 AM | #30 | |
Captain
575
Rep 585
Posts |
Quote:
They didn't touch the stock timing maps and the DME just pulled heaps of timing due to the lack of octane. https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=104 Greater fuel flow wouldn't have helped with straight 93 octane. The only thing that helped was less boost and more octane via ethanol within the limits of the HPFP. On 93 octane only and stock turbo the stock fuel pump is more than enough to find the octane limit of the fuel - about 400 WHP/ 450 HP engine is all you can hope for.
__________________
Tesla Model 3 Performance 0 - 60mph 3.1s
M140i LCI Mineral Grey Dorch Stage 2 HPFP, CG Precision DS-1, XHP, MHD Stage 2 HPFP E30 @ E42 100 - 200 6.96s Quarter mile 10.93@127mph |
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-20-2020, 07:56 AM | #31 | |
Brigadier General
1161
Rep 3,189
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-20-2020, 08:45 AM | #32 |
Cheapskate
4450
Rep 4,993
Posts |
I'm struggling with that, because you need fuel for boost and E (octane) for timing. So I don't understand how adding more boost in the 19-20psi range would limit your timing. MHD OTS maps run 17-18psi on stage 2 93 already. There's more capacity in the turbo with the fuel to support it, i.e. hpfp.
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-20-2020, 09:57 AM | #33 | |
Brigadier General
1161
Rep 3,189
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-20-2020, 02:15 PM | #34 | |
Second Lieutenant
54
Rep 286
Posts |
Quote:
I honestly don't know. I'm just try to learn from these subs so I know how best to modify my car. Thanks.
__________________
17' 340ix|Track Handling Package|MPPSK|MP Stage 2.5 ECU Tune|MP Stage 2 Trans Tune|AP Intake|763M Wheels
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-20-2020, 02:28 PM | #35 | |
Brigadier General
1161
Rep 3,189
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-20-2020, 02:48 PM | #36 | ||
Cheapskate
4450
Rep 4,993
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
This is the first car I've ever had were a tune runs less than 20psi, so forgive me if this is BMW thing. But I know people running 20psi by adding jb4 on top of OTS maps and then using meth to fill the gap. Yeah it also adds octane, but I don't see why adding more pump gas wouldn't have the same effect, although to a lesser degree. We just don't have an easy way to fill the fuel pressure gap so people have been using meth until recently. So yeah, you'll need a hpfp to run 20+ psi on 93. Just look at the current stage 2 OTS tunes. They don't increase boost with e30. They run the same boost, just more timing. That's common on cars where the turbo is tapped out, but we benefit from it early because the engine is high compression. So again, it would make sense to me that stage 2+ 93 could also run the same 19-20 psi with a more modest 12*-13* of timing. At the end of the day MHD isn't in the habit of leaving money on the table, so I'm sure they'd put the maps out there if they thought it was worth it. But to that I say, get a custom tune elsewhere and see if you can't get more out of it. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
04-20-2020, 05:55 PM | #38 | |
Captain
575
Rep 585
Posts |
Quote:
You can see the difference in the first dyno chart in the link I posted above comparing MHD Stage 2 95 octane to DervTech 93 octane, both using 93 fuel with E12. By adding more boost you do get more torque low down in the 3000 - 4000 RPM range, but past 5500 RPM makes lower torque and power as timing is low. On straight 93 the higher boost result would have been even lower and if I'd compared to the MHD Stage 2 93 octane map it may have performed even better as target load and timing is more conservative. The version 1 B58 has relatively high compression ratio of 11.0:1 which makes it more sensitive to octane and increased charge temperatures as the higher static compression increases cylinder mix temperatures. This is why adding ethanol is so beneficial as it not only increases octane but also provides a charge cooling effect. From my experience and testing a range of tunes and fuels the stock HPFP can maintain target rail pressure on straight 93 at 20 - 22 PSI through to 6000 RPM, but you will make less power due to poor timing.
__________________
Tesla Model 3 Performance 0 - 60mph 3.1s
M140i LCI Mineral Grey Dorch Stage 2 HPFP, CG Precision DS-1, XHP, MHD Stage 2 HPFP E30 @ E42 100 - 200 6.96s Quarter mile 10.93@127mph |
|
04-21-2020, 01:41 AM | #39 |
Built Motor F30 340i
403
Rep 257
Posts |
Why wouldn't you...?
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-21-2020, 04:26 AM | #40 |
Private First Class
61
Rep 106
Posts |
I think its a mess to calculate this. I want it as easy as possible. Pump fuel and just go...fast as possible
__________________
M140 Sunset Orange 2018. M719 Jet Black. Maxton sideskirts and spoiler, Ksb front splitter, RK Tuning diffuser, TPI spacers, MHD Stage 2, Xhp stage 3 , Wagner 300 cell cat, MPE silencer , Quaife LSD.
Supra pump and OTS E30, Spool ethanol analyzer (E35) https://theone1973.imgbb.com/ |
Appreciate
0
|
04-21-2020, 08:52 AM | #41 |
Major
809
Rep 1,369
Posts |
It’s not complicated, and so worth the extra power. Plus it’s cheap. Use the following calculator to help. It’s never going to be an exact science, but if you understand your tank capacity, it’s pretty simple.
http://www.wallaceracing.com/ethanol-mix-calc.php
__________________
2017 M240i/ ZF8 Pure Drivetrain Solutions Stage 1 & torque converter/xHP/ DAW Ultra Flow/ DS2/ Nostrum injectors/ E40 Doug Newton tuned/ ER DP/ Remus axle back/ BMS intake/ FTP CP/ M Perf LSD
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-21-2020, 09:14 AM | #42 | |
Second Lieutenant
156
Rep 242
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-21-2020, 03:28 PM | #43 | |
Cheapskate
4450
Rep 4,993
Posts |
Quote:
But first you must know: - your tank's ethanol content - your pump's ethanol content Get a cheap tester to verify the actual ethanol content and you're good to go. |
|
Appreciate
1
yokata156.00 |
04-21-2020, 03:45 PM | #44 |
Built Motor F30 340i
403
Rep 257
Posts |
It takes me no more than 5 minutes at the pump. Just calculate it with a simple calculator you can find online, or even download Spool's app "Spool Ethanol Analyzer" and do it there. E85 is the cheapest and safest way to push these cars. The alternative is meth (complicated and annoying), and race gas (expensive as hell).
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|