[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by crAbb

Surely you're missing the point. Get into an RS4, leave the door open and start the engine. For me it's an emotional journey. I can get all the EV vibe from my fridge.

My neighbours hated the C43 and 440i with PerfExhaust my son in law had, they are fine if they arent your commuter car and you leave early.... and as chris says, apart from that cold start, you cant really hear the exhaust in the car. The M5 was especially bad, everyone told me how loud it was, shame I couldnt hear it in the car!

Besides, I have the Mini if I must have exhaust noise, although being post 2019 its quite quiet too, which is great by my book. And I get a real emotional input by having to get the gearchanges right not just pull on a paddle and let the car do the work...

[Pond]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

When I was looking to get the new estate in January, I started out looking at BMW and Audi performance options. Got all excited doing the Top Trumps numbers thing but eventually faced up to the fact that I would hardly ever use the performance or exploit the set up ... And the insurance quotes didn't help much either 😱. Ended up with a warm 2L 4cyl version. Would have been lovely to have had a sub-5 second, all wheel drive M or RS model on the drive but hey ho, I'll just watch the vids from time to time and tell myself i did the right thing 🥴

I did exactly the same. Got to a stage where I was looking at RS6 avants and E63 mercs!

Having bought the 'hot' cars before many times and never really using them, I finally calmed down and bought an F31 320i. And it is absolutely fine. Less than half the cost of an equivalent 'hot' estate, half the running costs and gets where I need to go without any dramas.

[Allworth]

Personally, my concerns of buying a used EV would be;
-how much battery life is actually degraded, if any?
-could I DIY most of the repairs as I do on my fossil fueled?

I think one of the reasons why second hand EVs might be less desirable for lots of buyers as for now is because of the concerns on where and how to service it. On the other hand, when buying a new one there is no such a worry as a dealer can take care of it for some time due to warranty.
I am yet to learn deeper on how EV is works, because I really enjoy driving it.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Allworth

Personally, my concerns of buying a used EV would be;
-how much battery life is actually degraded, if any?
-could I DIY most of the repairs as I do on my fossil fueled?

I think one of the reasons why second hand EVs might be less desirable for lots of buyers as for now is because of the concerns on where and how to service it. On the other hand, when buying a new one there is no such a worry as a dealer can take care of it for some time due to warranty.
I am yet to learn deeper on how EV is works, because I really enjoy driving it.

Doesnt seem to be much servicing to do. Brakes last for ages as you have regen stopping from electric motors, there is no oil change, plugs, timing belts etc to worry about...

I got a degradation report when I bought mine. The oldest Teslas are now 10 years old and dont seem to be suffering too bad, even the ones used as taxis...

[martin10chk]

I am another one who has backed away from chasing performance. I recognised with the M140i that I simply couldn't use its performance. Driving my wife I thought I would impress and floor it. She hit me - "Why does it even go that fast". It was (and is) a very good question. These 300-400bhp monsters go from zero to license losing in 8 seconds or less. And most of my driving is with dogs in the car, on motorways or just general utility driving.

[crAbb]

Originally Posted by martin10chk

I am another one who has backed away from chasing performance. I recognised with the M140i that I simply couldn't use its performance. Driving my wife I thought I would impress and floor it. She hit me - "Why does it even go that fast". It was (and is) a very good question. These 300-400bhp monsters go from zero to license losing in 8 seconds or less. And most of my driving is with dogs in the car, on motorways or just general utility driving.

And that's absolutely fine. We're all different. I live out in the cuds, and have three large capacity motorcycles, that I ride as if my hair was on fire.

[225]

I'd say I'm still on an upwards trajectory for wanting more oomph. My m340 is putting out approx 440 bhp and a fair wadge of torque via the racechip and is no slouch. I've got a year left with it (unless I extend) and to get a bump in performance I'd have to go full M or RS really for petrol. Of course going that route means better handling, more focused feel etc as well.

However it's not just straight line speed I'd be looking for, a Tesla 3 performance will undoubtedly give that as mentioned but would I really look forward to driving it?

It's the start up noise, seeing the steam from both exhausts in the winter, maybe opening the window when driving in a built up area to hear the growl and odd burble, playing with the paddles and gears to have that interaction with the car etc

That's not to say I don't see the benefits of electric help, the m340 only has a mild hybrid but that works brilliantly.

Short version is I'd be torn in what direction to go in and depends on circumstances at the time as still have to consider cost, family duties etc however having more options now is only a good thing!

[JD6]

For me around 5 seconds to 60 is the right level of performance - fast but not uncomfortably so. It might be an age thing! I get more enjoyment from the handling and response of a car to steering input than straight line acceleration.

That’s not to say I would avoid buying anything faster than 5 seconds, just that the reason for buying it would be something other than acceleration - wanting a V8/12 growl, handling, scratching a particular itch to own something…

In terms of BMWs, the 40i engine is about the right level of performance.

[Danj94]

Interesting views, many of you share the same opinion as me.

My next car as much as I'd love a full fat M or RS car which I could probably stretch too... its more likely to be an M340i or similar for reasons such as remortgaging, little ones coming along etc.

I too look forward to starting my car every morning and for me the amount of power is excellent yet I can't help the yearn deep inside me for MORE POWWWWAAA as Clarkson would say and more noise to go with it. Guess its because I'm 30 and the yobo in me continues to have the overpowering say in my decision making much to my Fiancés dislike... hehe.

Perhaps I will keep the 440i and just look to replace her a180 for an iPace EV400 or something. Then I can use both!

[KRS_SN]

Pulling out from junctions and merging at right angles swift turns and dealing with rotten roads. My EV does it all in silence. It's a perfect city runaround(long journeys/remote travel) are a pain. For me the performance is plenty and instant.

[TodmordenLad]

I've already responded once but I'll have another crack. I reckon the ideal solution for me (city dweller) is a small EV for short local journeys, charged at home. Not fussed about brand, model or power as it would be a purely functional vehicle so cheap and cheerful if there's such a thing in the EV market these days. For longer journeys and holidays, a beautifully handling German performance estate, 400hp+ and AWD, with all the creature comforts. And yeh, both used, of course, I owner and FSH. Sorted ☺️

[JD6]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

I've already responded once but I'll have another crack. I reckon the ideal solution for me (city dweller) is a small EV for short local journeys, charged at home. Not fussed about brand, model or power as it would be a purely functional vehicle so cheap and cheerful if there's such a thing in the EV market these days. For longer journeys and holidays, a beautifully handling German performance estate, 400hp+ and AWD, with all the creature comforts. And yeh, both used, of course, I owner and FSH. Sorted ☺️

That’s pretty close to my approach!

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by JD6

That’s pretty close to my approach!

Class!!

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Allworth

Personally, my concerns of buying a used EV would be;
-how much battery life is actually degraded, if any?
-could I DIY most of the repairs as I do on my fossil fueled?

I think one of the reasons why second hand EVs might be less desirable for lots of buyers as for now is because of the concerns on where and how to service it. On the other hand, when buying a new one there is no such a worry as a dealer can take care of it for some time due to warranty.
I am yet to learn deeper on how EV is works, because I really enjoy driving it.

There is genuinely barely anything to service

[XAlp]

Sorry OP slightly off topic, but as fast petrol estates are getting a few votes above, would anyone consider running a LHD over here? There’s some better value Alpina B3 tourings on the continent…. Is there any import duty from EU?

https://www.autoscout24.com/offers/a...order_bucket=5

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by JD6

That’s pretty close to my approach!

I',m a bit off balance as my EV is big and also my dog hauler on long journeys - which I have no issues with. And then a small, sporty, manual car for fun - as size and interaction are big elements in having fun to me.

[MY340i]

by use case - an EV would suit me very well, and indeed makes sense on paper. Short town journeys, free parking for EV's, etc etc.

In practice, the cost to change, installing home charger, insurance etc, seems to be quite high.

will probably make the move later in the year.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by MY340i

by use case - an EV would suit me very well, and indeed makes sense on paper. Short town journeys, free parking for EV's, etc etc.

In practice, the cost to change, installing home charger, insurance etc, seems to be quite high.

will probably make the move later in the year.

Cost to charge? 7.5p per KWH, or £8 including losses for 230 miles in my very inefficient one?

Cost of a charge £900 unless non standard install. How much are first two services on an ICE versus an EV? and the brake pads and discs?

Insurance - expensive for everything these days!

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

I',m a bit off balance as my EV is big and also my dog hauler on long journeys - which I have no issues with. And then a small, sporty, manual car for fun - as size and interaction are big elements in having fun to me.

There's a lot to be said for small, light and sporty, and preferably manual. I still enjoy driving my wife's Mk7 100hp Fiesta with its sewing machine engine although it could never be described as sporty.
A friend bought an Alfa Romeo Giulietta , top spec with the pokier engine. It's an odd looking thing but lovely to drive and so far, it hasn't let him down. I rather fancy one. They look like this...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401316068433

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

I know sweet FA about EVs .... But a 400hp+ ICE car isn't just about the outright engine power, it's most likely been customised for performance in terms of its suspension, steering, wheels and tyres, exhaust, aerodynamics, seats, looks etc, whereas an EV of the same raw power probably/ possibly hasn't? As I say, I know nothing about EVs but I'd rather have an RS4 than a Tesla putting out the same bhp any day!!

I can only compare 434hp Model Y vs. 326bhp 440i rwd. The performance is on another level entirely, but also the handling and steering.

The 440i felt like there was more performance than the chassis/car was really up to handling, the Tesla feels like it could handle more power (and would have to if I took the performance upgrade in app).

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

I can only compare 434hp Model Y vs. 326bhp 440i rwd. The performance is on another level entirely, but also the handling and steering.

The 440i felt like there was more performance than the chassis/car was really up to handling, the Tesla feels like it could handle more power (and would have to if I took the performance upgrade in app).

Interesting, MB.
I wouldn't disagree about the 440i and I had the performance pack too. The steering was lifeless and the handling was poor - inert and underwhelming. The drivetrain was rather wasted in that very pretty shell 🤔

[JD6]

Originally Posted by XAlp

Sorry OP slightly off topic, but as fast petrol estates are getting a few votes above, would anyone consider running a LHD over here? There’s some better value Alpina B3 tourings on the continent…. Is there any import duty from EU?

https://www.autoscout24.com/offers/a...order_bucket=5

To me that seems very expensive for its age.

You can get a new one at a moderate discount these days

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-det...W1A1AA&fromsra

I haven’t imported anything since we left the EU, but have imported a couple of new BMWs from Germany and Belgium 20+ years ago. The deal at the time was you don’t pay VAT in the country you bought it from, it comes over on temporary plates and then you pay UK VAT when you register here.

I assume there would have been no VAT to pay on a used car previously. I imagine it’s still the case and probably no duty either if it’s a personal import, but hopefully someone with recent experience will confirm.