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      01-28-2021, 05:51 PM   #1
Filip3615
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Bmw 435i E30 HPFP upgrade and MHD ethanol reader

Hello, I own a bmw 435i N55 EWG with a bit of upgrades. List below*

I've got a E30 custom tune from Wedge Performance and with the news from MHD about the In-app ethanol measurement they've been working on I got a bit curious.

2 Things.

I understand upgrading my HPFP is future-proofing my car, as I'm pushing the limit with the E30 map? But i've read different things, does upgrading a HPFP add HP to my car?

2nd thing, If going for a Ethanol measurement kit, which of the one's MHD recommended would you choose, and why?


*Mods*
*Wagner tuning Evo FMIC
*Wagner tuning Catless DP
*Supersprint cat-back with valve
*Alu chargepipe
*Bms Air-intake
*Quaiffe LSD
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      01-28-2021, 06:29 PM   #2
jq955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filip3615 View Post
Hello, I own a bmw 435i N55 EWG with a bit of upgrades. List below*

I've got a E30 custom tune from Wedge Performance and with the news from MHD about the In-app ethanol measurement they've been working on I got a bit curious.

2 Things.

I understand upgrading my HPFP is future-proofing my car, as I'm pushing the limit with the E30 map? But i've read different things, does upgrading a HPFP add HP to my car?

2nd thing, If going for a Ethanol measurement kit, which of the one's MHD recommended would you choose, and why?


*Mods*
*Wagner tuning Evo FMIC
*Wagner tuning Catless DP
*Supersprint cat-back with valve
*Alu chargepipe
*Bms Air-intake
*Quaiffe LSD
I can contribute to the first question, I am not on MHD so I can't on the second.

ALWAYS ask your tuner first not the forums, they know better than just about anyone here, especially Ken and Steven at wedge.

My 2 cents is you will notice a difference in how the car runs if it's cold where you are and/if you are already experiencing hpfp drops. The car will be able to run the map as intended. Our stock hpfp is a joke. Mine used to crash with anything over e25 and finally gave out at the beginning of this winter.
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      01-28-2021, 06:52 PM   #3
Filip3615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jq955 View Post
I can contribute to the first question, I am not on MHD so I can't on the second.

ALWAYS ask your tuner first not the forums, they know better than just about anyone here, especially Ken and Steven at wedge.

My 2 cents is you will notice a difference in how the car runs if it's cold where you are and/if you are already experiencing hpfp drops. The car will be able to run the map as intended. Our stock hpfp is a joke. Mine used to crash with anything over e25 and finally gave out at the beginning of this winter.

Yeah I'll check with the guys over at wedge before making a pull, just wanted some input from the forums!

As far as I know car is acting good so far. This is just as a precautionary action if it could help avoid a bigger issue in the future.
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      01-28-2021, 07:21 PM   #4
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Post a log from your current tune, 4th gear pull ideally, as described in my thread here: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1732327

I have no doubt that that your custom tune is nearing the HPFP limit if you are running E30 since the MHD stage 2+ OTS E20 map is near the limit of the stock HPFP for me when i run E30.

A HPFP in itself will not add HP to your car assuming your stock HPFP is not crashing on your current tune (very unlikely with a custom tuner since they would tune around it). Of course, adding a HPFP will allow you to push to higher boost levels and/or higher ethanol content, the latter allowing for more timing, both of which can make more power. So you unlock the potential for more HP with a tune revision but do not immediately gain HP.

The point above about cold weather is less relevant if your tune is load based as the MHD OTS maps are. And in any case, your custom tune should be designed to work in any ambient conditions and not crash in cold weather or suffer from poor timing in hot weather, etc.

As to the 2nd question, are you talking about the two they just posted about for flexfuel integration?
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      01-28-2021, 08:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Post a log from your current tune, 4th gear pull ideally, as described in my thread here: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1732327

I have no doubt that that your custom tune is nearing the HPFP limit if you are running E30 since the MHD stage 2+ OTS E20 map is near the limit of the stock HPFP for me when i run E30.

A HPFP in itself will not add HP to your car assuming your stock HPFP is not crashing on your current tune (very unlikely with a custom tuner since they would tune around it). Of course, adding a HPFP will allow you to push to higher boost levels and/or higher ethanol content, the latter allowing for more timing, both of which can make more power. So you unlock the potential for more HP with a tune revision but do not immediately gain HP.

The point above about cold weather is less relevant if your tune is load based as the MHD OTS maps are. And in any case, your custom tune should be designed to work in any ambient conditions and not crash in cold weather or suffer from poor timing in hot weather, etc.

As to the 2nd question, are you talking about the two they just posted about for flexfuel integration?

Yes I understand what you mean about the HPFP with increased HP, that is what I believed the outcome was as well.

I live in Sweden where the weather is a bit mixed, but I'm in the lower parts, so we dont have as cold winters.
I am currently running stock firmware with stock DP as I have inspections soon. I usually let the car "cool down/ rest up" during the 3-4 winter months with mostly calm driving. So that part shouldn't be an issue.

Yes the flexfuel integration, i received these two links from MHD,

http://www.zeitronix.com/order/order.htm#ECA

https://www.motivmotorsport.com/coll...-o-integration

As for a log, I think these should be ok.
https://datazap.me/u/filipmak/fifth-...?log=0&data=16

https://datazap.me/u/filipmak/fifth-...?log=0&data=16
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      01-29-2021, 11:41 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filip3615 View Post
Yes I understand what you mean about the HPFP with increased HP, that is what I believed the outcome was as well.

I live in Sweden where the weather is a bit mixed, but I'm in the lower parts, so we dont have as cold winters.
I am currently running stock firmware with stock DP as I have inspections soon. I usually let the car "cool down/ rest up" during the 3-4 winter months with mostly calm driving. So that part shouldn't be an issue.

Yes the flexfuel integration, i received these two links from MHD,

http://www.zeitronix.com/order/order.htm#ECA

https://www.motivmotorsport.com/coll...-o-integration

As for a log, I think these should be ok.
https://datazap.me/u/filipmak/fifth-...?log=0&data=16

https://datazap.me/u/filipmak/fifth-...?log=0&data=16
I took a quick look through the logs. Your timing is excellent so fuel quality must be very good. What octane is the pump gas you are mixing with the ethanol?

The logs overall looked good, you had some small dips in HPFP pressure but not really a "crash". So yeah, the HPFP upgrade would give you more room to grow and a lot more flexibility with the E% mix so you aren't right on the edge of the fuel system, but you can sustain this tune with your current setup.

As far as the flexfuel setups, MHD just posted about those this week. To my knowledge no one here on the forums is using either system yet. I briefly looked and the motiv system looks more advanced (i.e., to control things like PI), but that may not be needed for your setup. Per MHD's comment you need to splice these in i believe. If you want to discuss that further i would post in MHDs new thread about it to see if we can get some discussion going since its new.
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      01-29-2021, 05:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
I took a quick look through the logs. Your timing is excellent so fuel quality must be very good. What octane is the pump gas you are mixing with the ethanol?

The logs overall looked good, you had some small dips in HPFP pressure but not really a "crash". So yeah, the HPFP upgrade would give you more room to grow and a lot more flexibility with the E% mix so you aren't right on the edge of the fuel system, but you can sustain this tune with your current setup.

As far as the flexfuel setups, MHD just posted about those this week. To my knowledge no one here on the forums is using either system yet. I briefly looked and the motiv system looks more advanced (i.e., to control things like PI), but that may not be needed for your setup. Per MHD's comment you need to splice these in i believe. If you want to discuss that further i would post in MHDs new thread about it to see if we can get some discussion going since its new.
Good to hear logs were looking good, I'm not that good at reading them..

I'm in Sweden where I use RON98 and mix it with 30% ethanol. Believe it or not, but sweden is not the best place for fuels, they mix alot of shit in it to make it "greener"... (better for the environment). So good to hear that the value's are alright.

So I take it at this point im not really on the verge of "destroying" the HPFP.

Would only a upgraded HPFP allow me to go E50 or so? Will the other components be able to handle it? Like, what's the limit? How much more power could the turbo's allow me to push? If you know that?

Yeah I'm quite early on the flexfuel setup, just interested in case anyone knew.
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      01-29-2021, 06:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filip3615 View Post
Good to hear logs were looking good, I'm not that good at reading them..

I'm in Sweden where I use RON98 and mix it with 30% ethanol. Believe it or not, but sweden is not the best place for fuels, they mix alot of shit in it to make it "greener"... (better for the environment). So good to hear that the value's are alright.

So I take it at this point im not really on the verge of "destroying" the HPFP.

Would only a upgraded HPFP allow me to go E50 or so? Will the other components be able to handle it? Like, what's the limit? How much more power could the turbo's allow me to push? If you know that?

Yeah I'm quite early on the flexfuel setup, just interested in case anyone knew.
Give my thread i linked above a read if you want to learn about reading logs

Same there here in CA RE: fuels, but our quality is absolutely terrible. I cant get timing that clean running E30.

To my knowledge there is no evidence that running the HPFP near its limit in any way causes additional wear and tear. Its a mechanical pump, so its doing its thing regardless of how much demand you put on the fuel system. More will just be returned if you dont use it.

Yes, you can definitely get to E50 with a HPFP. Some people even run full E85 with stock turbo and stage 2 HPFP and stock LPFP. However, others have reported that E70-75 is the limit of the stock LPFP with about 20psi.

In terms of power numbers of the HPFP upgrade (and a retune), i would look at the BM3 stage 2+ thread for a comparison. Your gains would be similar to those from going stage 2 to stage 2+ E30. Most of the gains will be in peak tq and tq from 2000-5000 rpm. You will get some HP as well, depending on how far your tune pushes your boost and how much it demands from the turbo in upper RPM. You can probably ask your tuner this question.
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      01-30-2021, 09:10 AM   #9
Filip3615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Give my thread i linked above a read if you want to learn about reading logs

Same there here in CA RE: fuels, but our quality is absolutely terrible. I cant get timing that clean running E30.

To my knowledge there is no evidence that running the HPFP near its limit in any way causes additional wear and tear. Its a mechanical pump, so its doing its thing regardless of how much demand you put on the fuel system. More will just be returned if you dont use it.

Yes, you can definitely get to E50 with a HPFP. Some people even run full E85 with stock turbo and stage 2 HPFP and stock LPFP. However, others have reported that E70-75 is the limit of the stock LPFP with about 20psi.

In terms of power numbers of the HPFP upgrade (and a retune), i would look at the BM3 stage 2+ thread for a comparison. Your gains would be similar to those from going stage 2 to stage 2+ E30. Most of the gains will be in peak tq and tq from 2000-5000 rpm. You will get some HP as well, depending on how far your tune pushes your boost and how much it demands from the turbo in upper RPM. You can probably ask your tuner this question.
I will check it out for sure!

Well in that case, either I'm really good at mixing or the fuel is better than I thought it to be

I think I am quite satisfied with the power it puts out, and Launch control is INSANE! With 285 rear tires and the Quaiffe LSD.
I bought a Dragy GPS this winter so I cant wait till summer to see what numbers I get. I think I will put it on a dyno as well. But the issue there is I cant log it from stock with 95 Ron then go to E30 after, as I dont know anyone with a dyno.
Also when running stage 2+ on winter tires I get wheelspin in 4th-5th gear sometimes so that's also why I am stock now. I'm not actually looking to tune it further (atleast that's what I believe), just want to make sure it all holds stable at this level.
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